If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

Where is the proof for this in WoW lore?

Goblins and Gnomes having tech cities and every other race being in either a medieval city or a magical city. The lack of lore characters outside of Goblins and Gnomes utilizing technology on a consistent basis. The lack of NPCs outside of Goblins and Gnomes utilizing technology on a consistent basis.

Which means that a random Human doesn't walk up to an engineering trainer and learns how to become a Tinker on the level of Mekkatorque or Gazlowe. At most, a human learns engineering to craft some minor gadgets to help aid their class and their allies. Tinkers on the other hand have an innate ability to invent. They're like Tony Stark in the Marvel universe.

So while a warrior might learn engineering to build a bomb to toss at a forest spider to distract it so it can kill it with his sword, a Tinker will blast the spider with a laser cannon from inside their mech.

Can you prove there is a distinction? Because as far as we know, there is no specific classification for what a Tinker does that makes them different from Engineers.

See above. The other being quality of gadgets made.

If we say they invent, we already know Engineers also invent. If we say they build their own machines whereas a Engineer doesn't, then that's not sustained by lore, it's simply headcanon. There is no source of lore that makes a distinction that says 'Not all Engineers are Tinkers' because we don't know what the framework is.

I mean by all means, it could be a racial epitome, like Vindicator is used for Draenei Paladins or Blood Knight for Blood Elf Paladins. There is no lore that says otherwise.

Except a Blood Elf Paladin is no weaker than a Draenei Paladin in gameplay or lore. It's merely a racial distinction. Engineering is like bottom level tech knowledge that Gnomes and Goblins teach to other races in order to make some coin, like all professions. It's nowhere near the high end level technology from tech geniuses like Mekkatorque, Blackfuse, Thermaplugg, and possibly even Gazlowe.

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You're seriously the most aggravating poster ever. Stop moving goalposts and changing the argument. No one is talking about whatever the fuck you're going on about here.

Do Tinkers build their own inventions, using actual materials and tools, and whatnot at any point in time? Yes or No?

I'm talking about the obvious differences between the engineering profession and the Tinker class. What are you talking about?

Do Tinker's build their own inventions using actual materials and tools? I don't know, that's never been properly explored. Again, with the advent of pocket factories it's quite likely that a Tinker could simply input the information they need and the factory mass produces it for them. Consider for example a Tinker using a turret versus a profession engineer building a turret; the Tinker is dropping multitudes of turrets which aren't misfiring, and they never run out of materials to build new ones. Meanwhile, the profession engineer has to constantly find materials and build new turrets. Those turrets misfire, are far weaker than the ones the Tinker is dropping, and simply don't measure up to the task of defending the engineer or their party.

That scenario would obviously support that belief, and make perfect sense on a class versus profession level.

[username993720]

Which doesn't change the fact that it is a magical arrow.

And Binding Shot, Resonating Arrow, and Flayed Shot? Those are all magical arrow abilities as well.

Again, an arrow that silences targets isn't a "Banshee ability". It's a Hunter/Ranger ability. Just like Chimera Shot isn't a "Chimera ability".

I didn't forget it, which is why I originally said that about half of the Priest class' abilities are shadow, and that separates them greatly from the Paladin class.

Actually no. The fact that they use different schools of magic makes them non-redundant. However, a bow user that can also cast long distance spells is very redundant.



I never said that. I said that when people look to roll a Hunter, they'll choose races they view as more fitting than a Gnome or Goblin. Elven races being the prime choice due to lore and Warcraft media.

Like serpent sting? is an arrow covered with animal venom magical? is frost trap a magical enchanted trap or an alchemical concoction like dry ice?

Binding shot is indeed unique like Arcane shot, and probably fits the Ranger.

Resonating arrow was specifically made for the Kyrian covenant. it's not a lore ability. just like Warriors throwing a magic spear doesn't make them magic warriors. same with Flayed Shot. an ability made specifically for the Venthyr covenant. just like Warriors using condemn doesn't make them a blood warrior.

There's a difference between Silencing/Counter Shot and Wailing Arrow:

Wailing Arrow: "A deafening banshee's wail erupts from the arrow's impact, inflicting Shadow damage and silencing nearby enemies."

Counter Shot/Silencing shot: "Interrupts spellcasting, preventing any spell in that school from being cast for 3 sec." / "A shot that silences the target and interrupts spellcasting for 3 sec.
Replaces Counter Shot."

Saying they are the same thing is like saying the Priest's Silence and the Mage's Counterspell are the same because they are both magic silencers.

Half of the Dark Ranger/Priestess of the Moon/Sea Witch are magical spell casting abilities, and that separates them greatly from the Hunter class.

The fact that they can use Shadow (Necromancy), Arcane (Lunar) and Nature (Water) abilities makes them non-redundant.

Is that so? tell it to the Blizzard developers that came up with the idea of Dark Ranger/Priestess of the Moon/Sea Witch hero units for Warcraft 3. and while at it, tell the Blizzard developers how stupid they are for adding a bow wielding Tyrande and Sylvanas to Heroes of the Storm, that also use long distance spells.

And, don't forget to diss them on their idea of a Demon Hunter for the Diablo franchise. A Crossbow wielding class that can cast Rain of Vengeance to launch a wave of shadow beasts, in Heroes of the Storm, or use Shadow Power to Draw power for the shadows, in Diablo 3.

You are clearly smarter and superior to them. They are clearly stupid for even thinking about the idea to add such ridiculous concepts to the Warcraft and Diablo universes.

You are talking about the Marksmanship spec. Orcs also fit the Hunter class, with their connection to beasts, and Trolls as well, with their Beast slaying racial and former Bow/throwing racials.

Uh, Hunters also have magical affinity as well. You're truly splitting hairs here.

All Tinkers are engineers. All engineers are not Tinkers. I thought we've been through this already.

Also there is a very clear lore distinction, and there's a very obvious gameplay distinction. That's all you really need to justify a class inclusion.

No, Hunters do not have a magical affinity. The Rangers of Silvermoon were less affected by their race magical addiction because they didn't use magic on a daily basis, like the others, and were not dependant on it.

"Tinkers (or tinkerers and tinkologists) are engineers mostly represented by gnomes, goblins, and dwarves of the Alliance, Horde and the Venture Company."

"Engineering enchantments, also known as tinkers, are unique gear enchantments that may be used alongside regular enchantments. They can be placed on the Gloves, Belt or Cloak."

There you go. all Tinkers are engineers, and all Engineers are Tinkers.

Do Tinker's build their own inventions using actual materials and tools? I don't know, that's never been properly explored. Again, with the advent of pocket factories it's quite likely that a Tinker could simply input the information they need and the factory mass produces it for them. Consider for example a Tinker using a turret versus a profession engineer building a turret; the Tinker is dropping multitudes of turrets which aren't misfiring, and they never run out of materials to build new ones. Meanwhile, the profession engineer has to constantly find materials and build new turrets. Those turrets misfire, are far weaker than the ones the Tinker is dropping, and simply don't measure up to the task of defending the engineer or their party.

That scenario would obviously support that belief, and make perfect sense on a class versus profession level.

What you are talking about is gameplay differences. not lore. while professions require crafting materials, classes don't. that's why an alchemist needs materials to craft potions and elixirs, while a rogue can just click the poison ability to apply poison to his weapons.

that doesn't mean, lore-wise, that he doesn't make them, and that they magically appear on his weapons. that's a gameplay mechanic.

of course, in lore, a Tinker creates his Gadgets. that's what being a Tinker is all about. technology doesn't appear out of nowhere, like magic. it is built with tools. they just wouldn't let you wait to build it while in combat, because that's a big disadvantage.

[Teriz]

No, Hunters do not have a magical affinity. The Rangers of Silvermoon were less affected by their race magical addiction because they didn't use magic on a daily basis, like the others, and were not dependant on it.

If they don't have magical affinity, how are the able to use magical arrows?

"Tinkers (or tinkerers and tinkologists) are engineers mostly represented by gnomes, goblins, and dwarves of the Alliance, Horde and the Venture Company."

"Engineering enchantments, also known as tinkers, are unique gear enchantments that may be used alongside regular enchantments. They can be placed on the Gloves, Belt or Cloak."

There you go. all Tinkers are engineers, and all Engineers are Tinkers.

Then why are the Tinker's abilities absent within the Engineering profession? If engineers within the Engineering profession are Tinkers, why don't they have access to any of the Tinker's abilities?

[Katchii]

I'm talking about the obvious differences between the engineering profession and the Tinker class. What are you talking about?

No one brought that up.....

We're talking about how a Tinker isn't some super magical being that can pull their gadgets out of thin air. They have to build what they use, just like anybody else. Which means, that lore wise, aside from the (sarcasm on) "clearly superior and obviously not-built-by-an-Engineer workmanship" (/sarcasm off) a Tinker ability that has them build and use an item such as a bomb, is no different than an Engineer recipe that has them build a bomb that has to be manually activated.

Do Tinker's build their own inventions using actual materials and tools? I don't know, that's never been properly explored.

......./smh. I...Are you fucking serious, right now?.....really?

Again, with the advent of pocket factories it's quite likely that a Tinker could simply input the information they need and the factory mass produces it for them. Consider for example a Tinker using a turret versus a profession engineer building a turret. That scenario would obviously support that belief, and make perfect sense on a class versus profession level.

So...you're going to move the golaposts...yet again...and want to argue that the genius level superior builder that can build gadgets on the fly and use them in battle (which was a defining characteristic YOU used to differentiate them from run of the mill Engineers)....doesn't actually build their own stuff, and instead...has a machine do it for them....?

Who built the Pocket Factory?

[username993720]

If they don't have magical affinity, how are the able to use magical arrows?

Then why are the Tinker's abilities absent within the Engineering profession? If engineers within the Engineering profession are Tinkers, why don't they have access to any of the Tinker's abilities?

Gameplay. just like the Warlock had Metamorphosis and Death Coil. just like the Shaman having Voodoo abilities. just like the mage having blademaster ability. just like the rogue having Warden ability.

They, somewhat, have. you can have mechanical robots as an engineer. you can fire explosives as an engineer and you can make mechanical mounts as an engineer.

[Traveler Voltin]

my opinion.

Engineer designs or follows plans and builds a mech then sells it.

Tinker designs and builds a mech then continues to go back to improve it by adding things. goes out into the world to test the weaponry created. always striving to improve the base design into something better.

[Triceron]

Which means that a random Human doesn't walk up to an engineering trainer and learns how to become a Tinker on the level of Mekkatorque or Gazlowe

No random Vulpera walks up and takes up Mage class to become on the level of Jaina either.

Our characters becoming Champion-level avatars is part of the story, but we never achieve the status of the main characters. Ever.

You aren't really pointing out anything that isn't already apparant that NPC leaders are a status which is simply not achievable by our own characters.

So while a warrior might learn engineering to build a bomb to toss at a forest spider to distract it so it can kill it with his sword, a Tinker will blast the spider with a laser cannon from inside their mech.

Cept there's no actual instance of that happening. Engineering simply scales with each expansion to reflect progression.

Case in point, you could say there isn't any way to employ Champion level mechs in the game; but there is and that's through Gnome and Goblins having Mech Pets that scale to end-game damage. That's a level of technological achievement that is reflected in their own racial use of Technology

If this is what you're really asking for, then Blizzard can give Engineering a profession-required 'Glyph' that swaps out specific Class abilities for tech/bomb/laser visuals. "Green Fire" for all high level Engineers.

Except a Blood Elf Paladin is no weaker than a Draenei Paladin in gameplay or lore. It's merely a racial distinction. Engineering is like bottom level tech knowledge that Gnomes and Goblins teach to other races in order to make some coin, like all professions. It's nowhere near the high end level technology from tech geniuses like Mekkatorque, Blackfuse, Thermaplugg, and possibly even Gazlowe.

But lorewise Engineering is no weaker than what you make of it. Mekkatorque is the ultimate Engineer and his technology stands amongst the greatest heroes. Tinkers are Engineers, right? So Mekkatorque is an Engineer, and lore-wise he's the potential that all classes can aspire to.

Our own classes are nowhere near the level of the heroes in the game. Is your Hunter as powerful as Sylvanas or Tyrande? Is your Priest as powerful as Anduin? No.

The fact that gameplay doesn't uphold your vision of what it should be in the lore is somewhat pointless. I get that the fantasy isn't there, but that's only because of a lack of (racial) customization. I still think we have a long way to go before Blizzard fully embraces what races need in order to really shine. Taurens still lack their Totems, Worgen lack unarmed combat options, Orcs still lack Banners and Wardrums. There's plenty of customization that simply hasn't been realized.

[ymirsson]

Then why are the Tinker's abilities absent within the Engineering profession? If engineers within the Engineering profession are Tinkers, why don't they have access to any of the Tinker's abilities?

Because blizzard hasnt implemented them. you need to distinguish between ingame and out of game reasons. like, out of game, people might be biased against tinkers because you are the worst spokesperson for any concept ever, whilst ingame, their character might wish to be like gazlowe since the day he was born.

[Teriz]

No one brought that up.....

Qwerty did, and you decided to chime in.

We're talking about how a Tinker isn't some super magical being that can pull their gadgets out of thin air. They have to build what they use, just like anybody else. Which means, that lore wise, aside from the (sarcasm on) "clearly superior and obviously not-built-by-an-Engineer workmanship" (/sarcasm off) a Tinker ability that has them build and use an item such as a bomb, is no different than an Engineer recipe that has them build a bomb that has to be manually activated.

Actually false. Again, Pocket Factory is a Tinker ability and it literally mass produces devices for the Tinker. So there is a lore justification for a Tinker not building their own devices or using recipes the way profession engineers do. Also if someone is a mechanical genius, like a Tinker would be, they wouldn't follow anyone's schematic but the one they created themselves.

So...you're going to move the golaposts...yet again...and want to argue that the genius level superior builder that can build gadgets on the fly and use them in battle (which was a defining characteristic YOU used to differentiate them from run of the mill Engineers)....doesn't actually build their own stuff, and instead...has a machine do it for them....?

Who built the Pocket Factory?

Obviously they built the Pocket Factory, a device profession Engineers can't build.

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Gameplay. just like the Warlock had Metamorphosis and Death Coil. just like the Shaman having Voodoo abilities. just like the mage having blademaster ability. just like the rogue having Warden ability.

But the magical arrows don't alter the Hunter's gameplay, so that can't be the reason. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Elven Hunters are part of the ability source for the Hunter class.

They, somewhat, have. you can have mechanical robots as an engineer. you can fire explosives as an engineer and you can make mechanical mounts as an engineer.

None of which are the actual Tinker's abilities. Again, where are they if Tinkers and the profession are the same?

[ymirsson]

Qwerty did, and you decided to chime in.



Actually false. Again, Pocket Factory is a Tinker ability and it literally mass produces devices for the Tinker. So there is a lore justification for a Tinker not building their own devices or using recipes the way profession engineers do. Also if someone is a mechanical genius, like a Tinker would be, they wouldn't follow anyone's schematic but the one they created themselves.



Obviously they built the Pocket Factory, a device profession Engineers can't build.

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But the magical arrows don't alter the Hunter's gameplay, so that can't be the reason. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Elven Hunters are part of the ability source for the Hunter class.



None of which are the actual Tinker's abilities. Again, where are they if Tinkers and the profession are the same?

And you wonder why people don't take you serious?

[Teriz]

No random Vulpera walks up and takes up Mage class to become on the level of Jaina either.

Our characters becoming Champion-level avatars is part of the story, but we never achieve the status of the main characters. Ever.

You're being obtuse. A max level Mage may not be on the same level as Jaina, but they're definitely an extraordinarily powerful character in the game, capable of transporting around the planet in an instant, destroying vast swathes of enemies with waves of Fire, Ice, or Arcane, and shielding themselves, enhancing their powers, and creating supplies in a blink of an eye.

The professions don't even come close to that.

You aren't really pointing out anything that isn't already apparant that NPC leaders are a status which is simply not achievable by our own characters.

See above. A Tinker class character at max level would be an approximation of a Mekkatorque or a Gazlowe. At the very least they would be able to kill a forest spider with a device.

Cept there's no actual instance of that happening. Engineering simply scales with each expansion to reflect progression.

Uh no. Engineering increases its max level and adds more devices, but the devices already in place don't scale, and are no comparison to actual class abilities.

But lorewise Engineering is no weaker than what you make of it. Mekkatorque is the ultimate Engineer and his technology stands amongst the greatest heroes. Tinkers are Engineers, right? So Mekkatorque is an Engineer, and lore-wise he's the potential that all classes can aspire to.

Lorewise a Human Warrior cobbling together scraps to make dynamite is not akin to a Goblin or a Gnome Tinker who can build a mech capable of firing laser beams and high end explosives. And once again, the very fact that Tinker abilities don't exist in the engineering profession should be more than enough evidence that the two disciplines are very different from one another.

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Because blizzard hasnt implemented them. you need to distinguish between ingame and out of game reasons. like, out of game, people might be biased against tinkers because you are the worst spokesperson for any concept ever, whilst ingame, their character might wish to be like gazlowe since the day he was born.

After 16 years they haven't implemented a single Tinker ability, yet implemented Tinker abilities in Island Expedition teams for BFA?

Okay....

[ymirsson]

After 16 years they haven't implemented a single Tinker ability, yet implemented Tinker abilities in Island Expedition teams for BFA?

Okay....

You are like a pizza slicer. youre missing a point.

[Katchii]

Qwerty did, and you decided to chime in.

That's not what Qwerty was talking about.

Actually false. Again, Pocket Factory is a Tinker ability and it literally mass produces devices for the Tinker. So there is a lore justification for a Tinker not building their own devices or using recipes the way profession engineers do. Also if someone is a mechanical genius, like a Tinker would be, they wouldn't follow anyone's schematic but the one they created themselves.

The point has nothing to do with how good one is, how quickly they can do it, or whether they follow schematic or not.....it has to do with whether or not a Tinker actually builds their own gadgets.

Building implies using tools, their hands, taking time, etc... to put something together and end up with a finished product. The end result is irrelevant to this fundamental concept.

So lore wise a Tinker building something is not fundamentally different than anyone else building something. Do not bring up the superiority of their thought process before it gets built, or how superior the end product is. That is not the point.

And you acknowledge this by saying....

Obviously they built the Pocket Factory, a device profession Engineers can't build.

No one was arguing otherwise. They BUILT IT, it didn't show up out of thin air, they didn't wish it into existence with their superior intellect, or whatever.

[Triceron]

The professions don't even come close to that.

It does when in support of the class using it. You are still an Engineer for having the Engineering profession. If you don't use the bombs then it's your choice, just like it is your choice not to use Shadow abilities as a Holy Priest or be a Resto Druid and opt not use Shapeshift forms as a Druid. These are not problems with the mechanics themselves, since the lore makes no distinction against any of these elements. Shapeshifting is no less powerful in the lore just because it happens to suck for a Resto Druid.

See above. A Tinker class character at max level would be an approximation of a Mekkatorque or a Gazlowe. At the very least they would be able to kill a forest spider with a device.

Which can be solved as easily as adding a glyph that changes your high level pyroblast into a laser beam. Like I said, what you're complaining about is literally visual representation of gameplay at this point. Gameplay doesn't reflect lore, so if all you want is gameplay representation then all we need is a glyph.

This is no different than some warlock complaining that their fire isn't 'real fel' because it isn't Green. Well, gameplay wise it makes no difference, and lore-wise it's just wasn't using the right visuals that existed prior to the Green Fire questline.

And let's be realistic, gameplay-wise the balance is all over the place so you can't go around and say something like Fel magic is less powerful than Arcane because Warlocks happen to be underperforming while Arcane was buffed to Fad of the Month status. Gameplay doesn't reflect lore.

Lorewise a Human Warrior cobbling together scraps to make dynamite is not akin to a Goblin or a Gnome Tinker who can build a mech capable of firing laser beams and high end explosives. And once again, the very fact that Tinker abilities don't exist in the engineering profession should be more than enough evidence that the two disciplines are very different from one another.

Yes but the ones who can use the suits have always been above champion-level NPCs. Mekkatorque and Gallywix had mechs because they were freakin RAID BOSSES.

You can aspire to be Jaina but you can't then turn around and ask for magical battleships that fire arcane cannon blasts as a standard for being a Mage. That's just ridiculous.

If you're talking about abilities that are able to kill a forest spider competantly, then I agree, Engineering should somewhat reflect that if it helps solidify the Goblin and Gnome cultures and themes. But if you're talking about robot suits that have ONLY been used by the top-tier NPCs who are beyond any regular tech user, then that's not 'aspiring' to that level, that's outright asking to be a Main character.

Can we ask that Hunters get Banshee powers because Sylvanas use them in the cinematic too?

[Teriz]

That's not what Qwerty was talking about.

Qwerty said quite clearly that lore wise there's no difference between a profession and the Tinker hero.

Which is wrong on multiple levels.

The point has nothing to do with how good one is, how quickly they can do it, or whether they follow schematic or not.....it has to do with whether or not a Tinker actually builds their own gadgets.

Actually it does, because all of those indicates a lore difference.

Building implies using tools, their hands, taking time, etc... to put something together and end up with a finished product. The end result is irrelevant to this fundamental concept.

In the case of technology (or magic) "building" something doesn't always requires hands or tools.

So lore wise a Tinker building something is not fundamentally different than anyone else building something. Do not bring up the superiority of their thought process before it gets built, or how superior the end product is. That is not the point.

And you acknowledge this by saying....
No one was arguing otherwise. They BUILT IT, it didn't show up out of thin air, they didn't wish it into existence with their superior intellect, or whatever.

Again, if a Tinker is building a superior machine faster, better, and stronger on every level, then obviously they are different lore wise than a profession engineer.

[Ielenia]

You seriously don’t see a problem with a Necromancer class having the same schools as the DK class?

Why would that be a problem? A necromancer does not have to have the "same schools" as the death knight class, but even if they do, why would that be a problem? What matters, first and foremost, to a class, is its gameplay: if it's fun to play, and if it is sufficiently distinct from the other classes. And as I've explained multiple times already: themes are irrelevant when designing a class' gameplay and mechanics.

A class with a frost theme doesn't have to have slows, and a class with a fire theme can have slows, for example.

The difference is that Blizzard said they folded the Necromancer concept into the DK class.

Pretty sure I heard them say they took parts of it. The death knight is a mish-mash of bits of various separate concepts.

By Wei, not by Blizzard.

Doesn't matter. Any and all intellectual assets need to be registered to be protected. An image created in 2006 (which, I remind you, was the time that the Wrath of the Lich King expansion was being worked on) still needs to be registered in 2006, even if it's not released to the public.

I’m talking about Wei’s image, not that one.

Look at the image you posted. It has Wei's signature on it.

[Triceron]

Again, if a Tinker is building a superior machine faster, better, and stronger on every level, then obviously they are different lore wise than a profession engineer.

No, that's not lore. That's headcanon.

If the game has a mechanic where Engineers have to follow a schematic, that is gameplay. That is not lore. Lore would only be sustained if the story said Engineers can only use schematics and do not invent anything; and frankly there's no lore that makes that statement. It's only a limitation of gameplay.

Using a Hearthstone to escape alternate reality Draenor is not lore. It would only be lore if it were legitimized in the story. Engineers using schematics? Not legitimized in the story. No character makes references to Engineers being unable to invent, no character makes references that the profession is any lesser than what Mekkatorque has become.

Lorewise, there is no distinction between the profession and the 'class' that Mekkatorque is. By all means, he IS an Engineer.

[Teriz]

It does when in support of the class using it. You are still an Engineer for having the Engineering profession. If you don't use the bombs then it's your choice, just like it is your choice not to use Shadow abilities as a Holy Priest or be a Resto Druid and opt not use Shapeshift forms as a Druid. These are not problems with the mechanics themselves, since the lore makes no distinction against any of these elements. Shapeshifting is no less powerful in the lore just because it happens to suck for a Resto Druid.

Whether in support of a class or not, an engineering bomb is still inferior to a Hunter's Wildfire Grenade, and would be inferior still to a Tinker explosive. You're also comparing an item to a class ability, which is laughable. An item is no where near as powerful as a class ability because the latter is influenced by stats, talents, and passives. An item has a flat level of unscalable damage.

Which can be solved as easily as adding a glyph that changes your high level pyroblast into a laser beam. Like I said, what you're complaining about is literally visual representation of gameplay at this point. Gameplay doesn't reflect lore, so if all you want is gameplay representation then all we need is a glyph.

So Druids don't wield Bows and Crossbows because they just don't feel like it?

This is no different than some warlock complaining that their fire isn't 'real fel' because it isn't Green. Well, gameplay wise it makes no difference, and lore-wise it's just wasn't using the right visuals that existed prior to the Green Fire questline.

You're talking about cosmetic issues. That's very different than what we're talking about.

Yes but the ones who can use the suits have always been above champion-level NPCs.

LoL! Yeah, because these guys are above and beyond the Champions of Azeroth.

Just FYI, mech piloting among Goblins and Gnomes is quite common. Heck, in the opening scenario of Kezan, Goblins are playing a sport game while piloting a shredder.

[ymirsson]

Just FYI, mech piloting among Goblins and Gnomes is quite common. Heck, in the opening scenario of Kezan, Goblins are playing a sport game while piloting a shredder.

And they are all tinkers on the level of gazlowe?

[Triceron]

Whether in support of a class or not, an engineering bomb is still inferior to a Hunter's Wildfire Grenade, and would be inferior still to a Tinker explosive.

An engineering bomb IS a Tinker explosive. Tinkers are Engineers.

So Druids don't wield Bows and Crossbows because they just don't feel like it?

What limits them from choosing to master it? Lore doesn't make that limit. These limits are imposed purely by gameplay.

A Paladin is no longer a Paladin because they use Shadow? Well that has yet to be explored in the lore. Is Alleria no longer a Ranger because she happens to use Void and no other Ranger in the game has ever done so before? We don't know yet, it has yet to be explored. So far, there isn't any distinction, and they haven't outed her as being a new or different class, the way Dark Rangers were given special treatment for having special Undead powers.

You're talking about cosmetic issues. That's very different than what we're talking about.

If you bring gameplay into the conversation, then visuals are also an aspect of gameplay.

It's not different at all. Glyphs are a thing.

LoL! Yeah, because these guys are above and beyond the Champions of Azeroth.

Just FYI, mech piloting among Goblins and Gnomes is quite common. Heck, in the opening scenario of Kezan, Goblins are playing a sport game while piloting a shredder.

So are you talking about Mech suits that fire rockets and lasers, or are you talking about Shredders kicking around a ball?

I'm fine if you want your Shredder kicking a ball, we already have it with Engineering Mounts. Hell, it even one-ups the ones we see in Kezan, ours can fly!