If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Traveler Voltin]

Starting the countdown to when this thread gets fucked and turned into another Tinker trash thread.

it wont. there was a warning about that pages ago.

[draugril]

Starting the countdown to when this thread gets fucked and turned into another Tinker trash thread.

It goes through phases.

[Teriz]

Would any of the Demon Hunter abilities be completely out of place in the Warlock class?

Yes, Evasion being a prime example.

Would any of the Death Knight abilities be completely out of place in the Warlock class?

Yes. Warlocks don’t raise undead minions.

Would any of the Tinker abilities be completely out of place in the Engineering profession?

Yes because Engineering uses items, not abilities.

And yes, they would be out of place. Hunters using necromancy through Black Arrow, Life Drain, and controlling them through Charm would be out of place in a nature-afiliated Hunter.

Hunters had variations of Black Arrow from Vanilla all the way to Legion. How can you say it doesn’t fit Hunter class? Also we were talking about those Dark Ranger NPCs you posted. None of them had Life Drain or Charm.

[Ielenia]

Yes, Evasion being a prime example.

Call it "Demonic Evasion". Maybe that could be used during metamorphosis.

Yes. Warlocks don’t raise undead minions.

And yet they deal with the souls with the dead? It wouldn't really look too out of place.

Yes because Engineering uses items, not abilities.

That's not the point. Being able to craft a device that when used deployed a factory that spawned walking bombs would be completely in theme with the engineering profession. Hell, building, riding and fighting in a mech is already part of the profession.

[Teriz]

Call it "Demonic Evasion". Maybe that could be used during metamorphosis.

It wouldn't have made any sense under metamorphosis either, since Warlock's version of meta was ranged. Spell casters don't get dodge abilities. That is strictly the realm of melee.

And yet they deal with the souls with the dead? It wouldn't really look too out of place.

Souls of the dead=/= Undead minions. Warlocks strictly control demonic minions.

That's not the point. Being able to craft a device that when used deployed a factory that spawned walking bombs would be completely in theme with the engineering profession. Hell, building, riding and fighting in a mech is already part of the profession.

Professions aren't designed to take the place of classes. Thus class abilities would be completely out of place in a profession.

[Triceron]

It wouldn't have made any sense under metamorphosis either, since Warlock's version of meta was ranged.

Warlocks also had Dark Apotheosis at one point, giving them a Tanking melee Demon Form.

You know, the Glyph of Demon Hunting.

[Teriz]

Warlocks also had Dark Apotheosis at one point, giving them a Tanking melee Demon Form.

You know, the Glyph of Demon Hunting.

Yes, and it was never a true tanking spec (unfortunately). Also it wasn't truly melee, since it's attacks had a 10 yard range. Even in that case it didn't have a dodge ability.

That said, if we ever get a "ranged" tank, they should utilize some aspects from Dark Apotheosis.

[Triceron]

Yes, and it was never a true tanking spec (unfortunately). Also it wasn't truly melee, since it's attacks had a 10 yard range. Even in that case it didn't have a dodge ability.

That said, if we ever get a "ranged" tank, they should utilize some aspects from Dark Apotheosis.

Well we can see why it was removed. Ranged tanking simply doesn't work in WoW.

[Teriz]

Well we can see why it was removed. Ranged tanking simply doesn't work in WoW.

Actually the spec functionally worked. The only thing really lacking was crit protection. Blizzard refused to give it because they felt a role like tanking shouldn’t be wrapped up in a glyph.

So again, take a page from DA and you can have yourself a ranged spec.

[TigTone]

Shadowlands covenants shows they can come up with a new class and not the usual guess of people here like tinker, necromancer, and dark ranger.

Bastion shows arcane warriors for example.

The Max shows examples of shadow knights and some are knights using fire abilities a classes mixed of that would be fun imo.

[Ielenia]

It wouldn't have made any sense under metamorphosis either, since Warlock's version of meta was ranged. Spell casters don't get dodge abilities. That is strictly the realm of melee.

They also had "Glyph of Demon Hunting" which made them tankier and an 'almost melee' auto-attack. Also, there is no rule whatsoever saying spellcasters cannot get dodge abilities. That's like saying melee cannot get ranged abilities. Or healing abilities.

Souls of the dead=/= Undead minions. Warlocks strictly control demonic minions.

And yet you equated all the souls of the dead abilities in the warlock class to necromancy, claiming overlap. If there is overlap, that means the warlocks possess the necromancy theme. And if they have the necromancy theme, undead minions fit.

Professions aren't designed to take the place of classes. Thus class abilities would be completely out of place in a profession.

Ok, first off, we were talking about "what fits where", and a technology-based device would fit in the technology-based profession. But "tinker" is not a class. At least not yet. Therefore you cannot say they are "class abilities".

[username993720]

Yes, Evasion being a prime example.



Yes. Warlocks don’t raise undead minions.



Yes because Engineering uses items, not abilities.



Hunters had variations of Black Arrow from Vanilla all the way to Legion. How can you say it doesn’t fit Hunter class? Also we were talking about those Dark Ranger NPCs you posted. None of them had Life Drain or Charm.

And Mana Burn being a Priest ability. and Immolate being a Warlock ability. and Metamorphosis being a Warlock ability as well. an advantage to the Warlock class. You're the one who keep saying that the Ultimate ability is the most important. So, yes, Warlock fits right like a glove.

Hmmm... let's think about it. Who else got their abilities scattered, like the Demon Hunter? oh yes... the Dark Ranger. Do Hunters have Life Drain? no... Warlocks got the closest thing, with Drain Life. Do hunters have Charm? no... Priests got the closest thing, with Mind Control. You know what else they got? Silence. So, yes. Dark Ranger abilities are out of place in a Hunter's kit.

Warlocks had Death Coil. That's enough for me. Just like you think anyone would have been satisfied with Hunters having Black Arrow in the past, and nothing else.

I don't care what they use. as long as they mimic the Tinker fantasy, that's good for me. That's good for you. and that's, basically, good for anyone. You know why? because you expect everyone to settle for, practically, nothing. Therefore, you should, also, be content with Engineering, merely, mimicking the Tinker.

Black Arrow - Patch 3.1.0 (2009-04-14): Added.

Why? Because Hunters are masters of the Wild, who tame a variety of beasts. They are Master Archers or Sharpshooters, who excel at bringing down enemies from afar. They are rugged tackers, favoring animal venom, explosives and traps.

They do not utilize necromancy, and they do not manipulate their opponents:
"A cunning Hero, adept at manipulating opponents. Forcibly raised from the dead, the former Rangers of Quel'Thalas enjoy nothing more than sowing dissension and hatred within the enemy ranks".

Speaking of being there from Vanilla: Mana Burn, Evasion, Immolate and Death Coil have all been there from the start. How would they not fit the Priest, Rogue, and Warlock and, instead, be given to the Demon Hunter and Death Knight?

No shit, sherlock. The Death Knight NPCs and Demon Hunter NPC i posted didn't have Death Coil, Death Pact, Unholy Aura, Animate Dead, Evasion, Mana Burn, Immolate or Metamorphosis. They have Black Arrow, most of the time, like Demon Hunter NPCs, mostly, possess Metamorphosis and Death Knight NPCs, mostly, possess Raise Dead.

Professions aren't designed to take the place of classes. Thus class abilities would be completely out of place in a profession.

Not, entirely, true. Engineering and Alchemy have, and had, combat-oriented abilities (less so now than in the past). It could be used in combat to supplement your rotation and give you an advantage in PvP. Therefore, Tinker abilities as Engineering devices aren't out of the realm of possibility. You assume that those are class abilities, and that the Tinker is a class, in the first place. What if we don't see the Tinker as a class? what if we see it as a, mere, reflection of a profession? and that it could never transcend beyond it, and will, always, be doomed to be viewed as nothing more than a profession?

[Triceron]

Actually the spec functionally worked. The only thing really lacking was crit protection. Blizzard refused to give it because they felt a role like tanking shouldn’t be wrapped up in a glyph.

Nah, if it had that it would have been OP. It was removed because it didn't work.

It was all experimental stuff added by the overzealous Warlock dev, it was a concept that shouldn't have even been added to the game. It's as dead a concept as Vanilla 'Support class' raiding specs.

[Teriz]

Shadowlands covenants shows they can come up with a new class and not the usual guess of people here like tinker, necromancer, and dark ranger.

Bastion shows arcane warriors for example.

The Max shows examples of shadow knights and some are knights using fire abilities a classes mixed of that would be fun imo.

I think the reason you tend to see those future class options pop up consistently is because things like “arcane Warriors” or “Void Knights” are never shown to be significantly different than what we currently have in the class lineup.

[TigTone]

I think the reason you tend to see those future class options pop up consistently is because things like “arcane Warriors” or “Void Knights” are never shown to be significantly different than what we currently have in the class lineup.

The creativity is there and now the lore is there too clarify on my point. I also never mentioned Void.

And the Maw has nothing to do with the Void.

[Teriz]

They also had "Glyph of Demon Hunting" which made them tankier and an 'almost melee' auto-attack. Also, there is no rule whatsoever saying spellcasters cannot get dodge abilities. That's like saying melee cannot get ranged abilities. Or healing abilities.

And they still didn’t get a dodge ability.

There’s no point in a spellcaster getting a dodge ability, because the whole point of fighting a spell caster is to close the distance. That becomes infinitely more difficult if a Mage had a 30% chance to dodge for X seconds.

And yet you equated all the souls of the dead abilities in the warlock class to necromancy, claiming overlap. If there is overlap, that means the warlocks possess the necromancy theme. And if they have the necromancy theme, undead minions fit.

Like I said, there’s different aspects of Necromancy. Death Knights use some aspects of Necromancy, and Warlocks use some other aspects.

Ok, first off, we were talking about "what fits where", and a technology-based device would fit in the technology-based profession. But "tinker" is not a class. At least not yet. Therefore you cannot say they are "class abilities".

The direct question is “Would Tinker abilities fit in the engineering profession”. The answer would be no, since professions make items, not use abilities. Class abilities would be completely out of place in the professions.

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The creativity is there and now the lore is there too clarify on my point. I also never mentioned Void.

And the Maw has nothing to do with the Void.

Yeah, but we’re done with the maw after this expansion. This class (whatever it is) will exist in WoW forever, so what is it bringing to the table that an existing class couldn’t bring?

[TigTone]

Yeah, but we’re done with the maw after this expansion. This class (whatever it is) will exist in WoW forever, so what is it bringing to the table that an existing class couldn’t bring?

I don’t know if you purposely ignore my point or I’m not clear enough with it for you to understand.

Once again my point is that blizzard has shown with SL they can create a whole new unique class outside of the usual requests of the players.

They still have the staff with the creativity for something new and that class will bring what ever blizzard wants it to bring.

I hope that is clear enough.

[Teriz]

I don’t know if you purposely ignore my point or I’m not clear enough with it for you to understand.

Once again my point is that blizzard has shown with SL they can create a whole new unique class outside of the usual requests of the players.

They still have the staff with the creativity for something new and that class will bring what ever blizzard wants it to bring.

I hope that is clear enough.

And once again, what people believe is “original” or “unique” is typically covered by the existing class lineup.

[TigTone]

And once again, what people believe is “original” or “unique” is typically covered by the existing class lineup.

You just want to impose your idea that blizzard can not create a new class onto others.

Why do people bother with you.

[Ielenia]

And they still didn’t get a dodge ability.

There’s no point in a spellcaster getting a dodge ability, because the whole point of fighting a spell caster is to close the distance. That becomes infinitely more difficult if a Mage had a 30% chance to dodge for X seconds.

As opposed to having 75% damage reduction for 6 seconds? Or how about undo all damage and remove all debuffs you took in the last 10 seconds? Or become completely immune for 10 seconds? What's so egregious about having a dodge ability?

Like I said, there’s different aspects of Necromancy. Death Knights use some aspects of Necromancy, and Warlocks use some other aspects.

Ah, so now we have "different aspects of necromancy". But when we're talking about the necromancer, then suddenly all necromancy is the same, isn't it? Because a tank spec based on blood magic from vampirism is the same as a healing spec based on blood magic from blood sacrifices.

The direct question is “Would Tinker abilities fit in the engineering profession”. The answer would be no, since professions make items, not use abilities. Class abilities would be completely out of place in the professions.

And when people talk about abilities, they're talking about the concepts of the abilities: i.e. spawning a structure that spawns walking bombs, in the case of pocket factory. They're not talking "actual in-game abilities". It's pretty obvious what they're talking about.

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And once again, what people believe is “original” or “unique” is typically covered by the existing class lineup.

Wrong.

Because you're assuming a "dark ranger" class would play just like a hunter. A "necromancer" class would play just like a warlock. Etc, etc.

And that is demonstrably wrong. That's like me saying a tinker would not play any different than a druid, considering the druid cannot use their bear/cat abilities outside their respective forms, just like a tinker would be unable to use mech abilities outside the mech.