Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Teriz]

Oh, so suddenly overlapping themes is not an issue.

Where's the overlapping theme? Warlocks use Demonic Magic, Mages use Fire/Arcane/Frost magic. That's not an overlapping theme. What's overlapping is the nature of demonic magic with ONE of the Mage's magic schools. The same applies to Mages and a potential Bronze Dragon spec. By nature, Arcane magic possesses some temporal aspects, but that isn't enough to push out a spec that COMPLETELY revolves around temporal magic. Especially one based around the sands of time.

For the lols? Are you completely disregarding the Horde faction?

Honestly, I'm willing to bet that outside of Blood Elf and Nightborne females, people playing Orc, Troll, Undead, Tauren, and Goblin females is VERY low. Far lower than people playing Alliance race female characters.

The problem is you don't have a dragon class outside of the RPG sources, and they already had a concept for a playable dragon race.

Yeah you do. Like I said, the Warcraft version of dragons is more of a class than a race. They have the ability to turn into humaniods, and they have multiple versions of themselves that do different things. Again, if we were just talking about a giant lizard with wings that breathes fire, then we would clearly not have the grounds for a class. However, that isn't what we have here. What we have is a druid-like concept where the character turns into dragons instead of beasts.

Blizzard themselves even lean into that idea. Below is completely their own concept;



Are we going to seriously argue that Blizzard isn't considering this idea when they're paying professional artists to produce this artwork for them?

[Raetary]

On a less serious note, i wish Blizzard could fuck off with toy cooldowns.

I just got the fairy wing toy, the effect looks fantastic but it only has a 3 minute duration with an annoying 5 minute cooldown.
Why the need for those 2 minutes of having to wait to reapply it?

Its not like the effect is something super flashy and loud either where it really needs to be dumbed down, the wing effect is rather feint and its mostly just see-through.
Other toys that influence your character appearance far more have tend to last significantly longer.

Hell, the Blazing Wings from the DMF last a whole 15 minutes despite being a lot more flashy and visible.
My own damn weapon enchant is more flashy and distracting than the wings, despite being permanent:


This is so damn stupid.

[username993720]

Where's the overlapping theme?

Time magic.

Warlocks use Demonic Magic, Mages use Fire/Arcane/Frost magic. That's not an overlapping theme. What's overlapping is the nature of demonic magic with ONE of the Mage's magic schools. The same applies to Mages and a potential Bronze Dragon spec. By nature, Arcane magic possesses some temporal aspects, but that isn't enough to push out a spec that COMPLETELY revolves around temporal magic. Especially one based around the sands of time.

Oh, really? But when it comes to other class concepts, suddenly the issue of overlapping themes is unbearable?

Honestly, I'm willing to bet that outside of Blood Elf and Nightborne females, people playing Orc, Troll, Undead, Tauren, and Goblin females is VERY low. Far lower than people playing Alliance race female characters.

I don't know and i don't care. But, they obviously don't play those races for their beauty standards.

Yeah you do. Like I said, the Warcraft version of dragons is more of a class than a race. They have the ability to turn into humaniods, and they have multiple versions of themselves that do different things. Again, if we were just talking about a giant lizard with wings that breathes fire, then we would clearly not have the grounds for a class. However, that isn't what we have here. What we have is a druid-like concept where the character turns into dragons instead of beasts.

That is not an official class. That is what you consider worthy of a class. Blizzards follows established lore, not fan fiction.

Blizzard themselves even lean into that idea. Below is completely their own concept;

Are we going to seriously argue that Blizzard isn't considering this idea when they're paying professional artists to produce this artwork for them?

Huh? Wrathion has always been able to tranform into a Dragon. What were you trying to prove with those pictures?

[Teriz]

Time magic.

Time magic is not the theme of the Arcane spec;

Arcane: Manipulates raw Arcane magic, destroying enemies with overwhelming power.

Oh, really? But when it comes to other class concepts, suddenly the issue of overlapping themes is unbearable?

Again, a spec based on the Bronze Dragonflight would not overlap with Arcane mages.

I don't know and i don't care. But, they obviously don't play those races for their beauty standards.

Not the point. The point is that the vast majority of players prefer to play pretty races. Now, does that mean that Blizzard should only produce races with supermodels? Probably not. However, if the option for the same race is pretty or ugly, I can't imagine Blizzard choosing the ugly, less popular option.

That is not an official class. That is what you consider worthy of a class. Blizzards follows established lore, not fan fiction.

It's the established lore that allows dragons to become a playable class.

Huh? Wrathion has always been able to tranform into a Dragon. What were you trying to prove with those pictures?

That you have draconic characters in WoW that are similar to the Druid class, and Blizzard is well aware of it.

[huth]

That you have draconic characters in WoW that are similar to the Druid class, and Blizzard is well aware of it.

What does that have to do with the Druid class? You have an extremely narrow and simplistic understanding of things.

[Makabreska]

Time magic is not the theme of the Arcane spec;

Arcane: Manipulates raw Arcane magic, destroying enemies with overwhelming power.

Hilariously wrong you are. Time Warp, and Alter Time are from Arcane school. The Arcane spec description you quoted used to have "time and space" in it like 2 expansion before when they introduced (and later remove) Alter Time. Each day you keep this mental gymnastic and bullshit peddling, because you desperately want to be right. But you are not.

Literally first sentence from the Wiki:

Arcane magic (also called arcane energy,[2] or arcana)[3] is a cold and intellectual[4] magic that warps time, space, and controls the flow of mana,[5] which is just a measure of a fundamental power—if mana were water, then arcane would be steam pressure

[Revamp Man]

I had no idea deathwing was a Druid

[Plehnard]

On a less serious note, i wish Blizzard could fuck off with toy cooldowns.

I just got the fairy wing toy, the effect looks fantastic but it only has a 3 minute duration with an annoying 5 minute cooldown.
Why the need for those 2 minutes of having to wait to reapply it?

Its not like the effect is something super flashy and loud either where it really needs to be dumbed down, the wing effect is rather feint and its mostly just see-through.
Other toys that influence your character appearance far more have tend to last significantly longer.

Hell, the Blazing Wings from the DMF last a whole 15 minutes despite being a lot more flashy and visible.
My own damn weapon enchant is more flashy and distracting than the wings, despite being permanent:


This is so damn stupid.

Yeah, cool downs on cosmetics are stupid.
If they are disruptive in PvP they could just deactivate them there but there no good reason to restrict them like that in a PvE setting

[Edward Wu]

Hilariously wrong you are. Time Warp, and Alter Time are from Arcane school. The Arcane spec description you quoted used to have "time and space" in it like 2 expansion before when they introduced (and later remove) Alter Time. Each day you keep this mental gymnastic and bullshit peddling, because you desperately want to be right. But you are not.

Literally first sentence from the Wiki:

Arcane magic (also called arcane energy,[2] or arcana)[3] is a cold and intellectual[4] magic that warps time, space, and controls the flow of mana,[5] which is just a measure of a fundamental power—if mana were water, then arcane would be steam pressure

Plus if you look at the Arcane talents on Wowhead right now you can see it has talents called "Master of Time", "Chrono Shift", and "Time Anomaly" lol. Time is absolutely one of the major themes of Arcane. Teriz is coping as usual.

[therumblings]

If they are going to make a Dragon class, arcane having time spells and fire using fire spells wont stop them. Just look at Demon Hunters.

[Edward Wu]

If they are going to make a Dragon class, arcane having time spells and fire using fire spells wont stop them. Just look at Demon Hunters.

Yep, this is a good point. They will cannibalize some themes of existing specs to do whatever they want. RIP Warlock's Death Coil and Metamorphosis. They truly are the black sheep class of the devs.

[Izalla]

Plus if you look at the Arcane talents on Wowhead right now you can see it has talents called "Master of Time", "Chrono Shift", and "Time Anomaly" lol. Time is absolutely one of the major themes of Arcane. Teriz is coping as usual.

We even have an entire mage tier set themed around the time concept, and I believe it is called Timelord.

[Makabreska]

Yep, this is a good point. They will cannibalize some themes of existing specs to do whatever they want. RIP Warlock's Death Coil and Metamorphosis. They truly are the black sheep class of the devs.

They still have Death Coil as a Mortal Coil. It works exactly the same. Loosing Meta was never an issue for me, because current Demo version is simply fun to play.

[Teriz]

What does that have to do with the Druid class? You have an extremely narrow and simplistic understanding of things.

Both concepts involve shapeshifting.

[Edward Wu]

They still have Death Coil as a Mortal Coil. It works exactly the same. Loosing Meta was never an issue for me, because current Demo version is simply fun to play.

It does not.
https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=17926/death-coil
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=6789/mortal-coil

[Teriz]

Hilariously wrong you are. Time Warp, and Alter Time are from Arcane school. The Arcane spec description you quoted used to have "time and space" in it like 2 expansion before when they introduced (and later remove) Alter Time. Each day you keep this mental gymnastic and bullshit peddling, because you desperately want to be right. But you are not.

You're talking about 2 abilities versus an entire spec dedicated to time-related abilities. It's not the same thing. Again, it's like saying that Destruction Warlock is the same as Fire Mage. Temporal magic is an aspect of Arcane. Bronze Drakes completely utilize time magic.

- - - Updated - - -

If they are going to make a Dragon class, arcane having time spells and fire using fire spells wont stop them. Just look at Demon Hunters.

Exactly. A Timewalker spec (Bronze) using the sands of time as a mechanic is not going to cause Arcane to be altered or changed in any way. Especially not the way Demon Hunters significantly altered the Warlock class.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Hilariously wrong you are. Time Warp, and Alter Time are from Arcane school. The Arcane spec description you quoted used to have "time and space" in it like 2 expansion before when they introduced (and later remove) Alter Time. Each day you keep this mental gymnastic and bullshit peddling, because you desperately want to be right. But you are not.

Literally first sentence from the Wiki:

Arcane magic (also called arcane energy,[2] or arcana)[3] is a cold and intellectual[4] magic that warps time, space, and controls the flow of mana,[5] which is just a measure of a fundamental power—if mana were water, then arcane would be steam pressure

Come on dude, you're conflating theme with magic school.

All three paladin specs are based around holy light, but with very distinct usages; it would be no different if a "Time Warp" spec that also is based around arcane magic were added to mages, because the functionality itself would be distinct.

[Makabreska]

You're talking about 2 abilities versus an entire spec dedicated to time-related abilities. It's not the same thing. Again, it's like saying that Destruction Warlock is the same as Fire Mage. Temporal magic is an aspect of Arcane. Bronze Drakes completely utilize time magic.

Again, go check Wiki description. You are simply wrong.

"Arcane magic (also called arcane energy,[2] or arcana)[3] is a cold and intellectual[4] magic that warps time, space, and controls the flow of mana,[5] which is just a measure of a fundamental power—if mana were water, then arcane would be steam pressure."

[Makabreska]

It does not.
https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=17926/death-coil
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=6789/mortal-coil

Uhhh yes it is? Both versions send a projectile that makes target flee and heals you. Unless you speak about things Like cooldown.

- - - Updated - - -

Come on dude, you're conflating theme with magic school.

All three paladin specs are based around holy light, but with very distinct usages; it would be no different if a "Time Warp" spec that also is based around arcane magic were added to mages, because the functionality itself would be distinct.

Again, Wiki clearly states Arcane is also about time manipulation, on top of spec having plenty of "time" spells and talents. Teriz was basing his ravings purely on a short, in-game spec description. He saw no word "time" there, he decided Arcane is not about time.

[Raetary]

It does not.
https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=17926/death-coil
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=6789/mortal-coil

"This ability that shoots a projectile which causes the target to run in fear and heal you, is not the same as the ability that shoots a projectile which causes the target to run in fear and heal you"