Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Says who. Fiction needs to be fictional. Entertainment needs to be entertaining. Everything else is up to the author.

I could agree with that point for fiction; it would reflect reality especially if it is set up at a version of current time.
But fantasy fiction is very much different. The better fantasy fiction usually extrapolates fantasy cultures out of the sociological evidence accrued in human history by exploring how fantasy elements would lead to deviations instead of incessantly projecting the writer's zeitgeist on a reality with vastly different variables.
Azeroth is a world where people either could interact with their gods (trolls, pandaren) or live at a time when their religion alters radically as their god's actual reality is exposed (Kaldorei, Humans), live in a world where the afterlife is suddenly not just fully understood but readily accessible even to random civilians, a world that has been invaded by various forms of space aliens and suffered multiple catastrophes that could have been reality ending. A world were there can be no presumption of safety at any point in the last few decades (and given the monstrous populations, nor could there really be before the events of WCI outside a very few urban centers). Honestly writing fantasy fiction as if it's just fiction only with fantasy elements in it seems so lazy to me and breaks any verisimilititude.

[Fiercelord]

No way someone is actually suggesting that

[Nymrohd]

Declaring The 5th Element racist with no follow-up and now this nonsense? You sure you aren't the racist one here?

While I don't think racist is the proper term, there is a large number of people in the WoW community that treat the Light as fascist. The notion existed even before X'era and definitely became very popular with the Mag'har recruitment scenario.

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Well that was quite the ending to Sylvanas' story, wasnt it?
Shame that Sylvanas' story has become to incredibly butchered that I barely even manage to watch it without recoiling. But hey, at least she is gone now, and we can hopefully never speak of her again.

Soon we shall have a 10.0 announcement, and I look forward to at least getting the bad taste of Sylvanas out of my mouth at that point.

The scary thing is, the hope was that she'd go on the fridge for at least a couple of expansions. But if Anduin really is joining her in the Maw, she may be back as soon as 11.0 which would be less than optimal.

[Soulwind]

The scary thing is, the hope was that she'd go on the fridge for at least a couple of expansions. But if Anduin really is joining her in the Maw, she may be back as soon as 11.0 which would be less than optimal.

And pregnant!

I could agree with that point for fiction; it would reflect reality especially if it is set up at a version of current time.

Generally speaking, yes. But even then I'd say it's up to the author. If someone wants to create a fictional universe that mimics our modern world, with completely surreal and impossible stories that don't reflect any real issues, that would still be called fiction.

Now, you could argue that every story has some element of reality in it, because even if we want, we can'tcome up with anything not based on experience, but that wasn't the point of the person we were replying to.

Like, as you say, people can see the Light as authoritarian and fascist, because in our real life experience, a group of fanatics that acts that way will always end up abusing their power and creating violence.

Blizzard could say that in Warcraft, that shit just works. But then people would call it propaganda. So in a way, they are forced to prove that the Light is wrong in their ways. Not because they were trying to reflect reality, but because people would look for such reflection anyway.

[ercarp]

And pregnant!

Can't wait to see how the story of their child, Varianathanos Wrynnrunner, unfolds.

[Nymrohd]

And pregnant!

Yeah, that particular crack ship just got mainstreamed. Though they should go fully progressive and make them a throuple with Nathanos joining in.

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Can't wait to see how the story of their child, Varianathanos Wrynnrunner, unfolds.

Given Anduin comes back old in the comic, the child will be an adult when we see them.

[Wangming]

Can't wait to see how the story of their child, Varianathanos Wrynnrunner, unfolds.

He would be like Me'dan. Has every class because of course.

[Soulwind]

Can't wait to see how the story of their child, Varianathanos Wrynnrunner, unfolds.

I hate that Wrynnrunner doesn't even sound that bad...

[Harbour]

Removing Anduin from the Light is Bad conflict is a very cheap cop out. Anduin vs Turalyon is probably my most exciting potential conflict i hope for in 10.0.

[Raetary]

And pregnant!

Unless its Anduin laying an egg for Wrathion, no thanks.

[Soulwind]

Unless its Anduin laying an egg for Wrathion, no thanks.

See, now necrophilia seems like the lesser evil. Thanks.

[Alanar]

Removing Anduin from the Light is Bad conflict is a very cheap cop out. Anduin vs Turalyon is probably my most exciting potential conflict i hope for in 10.0.

He could show up later down the line in 10.3 when Turalyon has lost it. Still all possible.

[Varodoc]

What I hope comes to pass is a "Good" version of the Stormwind Vision of N'Zoth.

So, essentially:

- Turalyon becoming evil, and Alleria rising up to stop him;

- Alleria killing Turalyon and ending his reign of terror;

- As reward, Alliance pledging themselves to Alleria and making her High Queen;

- Alleria safeguarding Arator;

- The Ren'dorei moving in and taking over Stormwind with Alleria refurbishing the Cathedral of Light as her base of operations, from which she rules Stormwind and leads the Alliance.

- Magister Umbric taking over the Mage Tower and training a new generation of Void users.

The best of both worlds. The Vision of N'Zoth comes to pass, but in the complete opposite way. While in the Vision the Ren'dorei forcefully took over Stormwind and enslaved its people in N'Zoth's name, in reality the Ren'dorei would move into Stormwind as reward for the pivotal role Alleria played in ending Turalyon's tyranny of Light [Alleria, naturally, is the one who has the most potential of stopping Turalyon; not only she is the one who knows him best, but she wields the power that is antithesis to the Light]. This is what I believe will happen in the future and this is my preferred outcome for the Story really.

[Nymrohd]

Generally speaking, yes. But even then I'd say it's up to the author. If someone wants to create a fictional universe that mimics our modern world, with completely surreal and impossible stories that don't reflect any real issues, that would still be called fiction.

At that point I'd consider it fantasy fiction. It can be modern fantasy but still a form of fantasy imo and it's first task should be to adress the fantasy elements, not reality imo.[/quote]

Like, as you say, people can see the Light as authoritarian and fascist, because in our real life experience, a group of fanatics that acts that way will always end up abusing their power and creating violence.

The problem for me is that the original lore suggested something much more nuanced. That the Light doesn't choose who it grants power to, it simply reacts to conviction. It will empower the faithful wether their faith comes in expressing compassion and showing mercy or in expressing zeal and seeking retribution. That made the power itself amoral and allowed for the virtues it expressed to come from its chosen agents. You could then say that the Naaru who came to Mereldar and formed the religion of the Holy Light largely represented virtuous concepts but that there are other Naaru whose focus may be far less benevolent.
I also would have loved to see more focus on how Naaru thought is formed from their peculiar life cycle. It is far more traumatic to know that if you get seriously injured you will become the very antithesis of what you currently are than mortal perception of death. The Naaru race lives in a type of zombie apocalypse by default; if they are hurt they will change to Void and start killing everyone, including others of their kind. That should have an effect on them and I'd love to see that.

Instead of exploring what the lore built on however we got X'era. And X'era is considered a fascist in the community. But was she one? She was willing to let Alleria, an absolute mortal threat to her live because Turalyon and Lothraxion asked her to. She was obsessed with a singular prophecy which seems to be a common issue for the Naaru; they perceive a single reality so it makes sense that they'd try to guide things towards that reality. And X'era not only lived long but unlike other Naaru we've met seems to have been involved in far more combat. She did not however instill fanaticism in her followers; they all agree to work with the one who murdered her because they were all capable of seeing the greater good. Doesn't seem very authoritation to me.
And then we get Yrel. The Mag'har recruitment scenario is so interesting because it was written completely one sided. So much so that people who are not constantly projecting their grievances would be bound to see the bias in Geyarah's representation of what happened. Yet immediately after we got wow community inundated by "Yrel is a Nazi". Here I am not sure I can blame Blizzard as much. The reason is, I have absolutely no idea what their narrative intent was with that scenario because we came off the War of Thorns, were they gaslighted the playerbase for months. SO while in different circumstances I'd just blame the community for projection instead of the writers, I cannot really afford Blizzard any doubt on their intent. It was presented black and white cause it was meant to cause a reaction, not because it was meant to tell a story. Their narrative focus is causing shock, not building a world.

[Soulwind]

And here I'm hoping for something slightly more nuanced than "Light madness" regarding Turalyon. Like, he could still be responsible for bringing an army of invaders to Azeroth, despite not actually approving of their methods nor working with them.

But... yeah, it's Blizzard, he has to become a raid boss who rambles and yells about pathetic mortals at some point...

I cannot really afford Blizzard any doubt on their intent. It was presented black and white cause it was meant to cause a reaction, not because it was meant to tell a story. Their narrative focus is causing shock, not building a world.

Agreed. To the point that I'm certain that they have meetings about "Storylines that our playerbase expects and how to avoid or twist them".

[Grimbold21]

Says who. Fiction needs to be fictional. Entertainment needs to be entertaining. Everything else is up to the author.

The poster isn't endorsing that view. They're suggesting that today (fictional) media needs to be reflective of society and its issues, which, if we're being honest with each other, is not a far-fetched proposition.

[Wangming]

And here I'm hoping for something slightly more nuanced than "Light madness" regarding Turalyon. Like, he could still be responsible for bringing an army of invaders to Azeroth, despite not actually approving of their methods nor working with them.

But... yeah, it's Blizzard, he has to become a raid boss who rambles and yells about pathetic mortals at some point...



Agreed. To the point that I'm certain that they have meetings about "Storylines that our playerbase expects and how to avoid or twist them".

No, no. Pitifull mortals.

[Nymrohd]

And here I'm hoping for something slightly more nuanced than "Light madness" regarding Turalyon. Like, he could still be responsible for bringing an army of invaders to Azeroth, despite not actually approving of their methods nor working with them.

But... yeah, it's Blizzard, he has to become a raid boss who rambles and yells about pathetic mortals at some point...



Agreed. To the point that I'm certain that they have meetings about "Storylines that our playerbase expects and how to avoid or twist them".

They probably think that's peak writing as well.

[Lahis]

Unless its Anduin laying an egg for Wrathion, no thanks.

Okay. So.

Dragons can choose their humanoid form, down to their gender.

If Wrathion changed his human form into a woman, could Anduin impregnate her?

[Soulwind]

The poster isn't endorsing that view. They're suggesting that today (fictional) media needs to be reflective of society and its issues, which, if we're being honest with each other, is not a far-fetched proposition.

I don't think it's far-fetched, but I think it's unnecessary. We shouldn't expect every writer to shape their worlds around the same issues, that would get very boring very quickly (see: Amazon/Netflix forcing race/gender into every show, and how people react to that).

I'd say a particularly cartoony fantasy videogame could afford to ignore such issues and just focus on entertainment value.