Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

The issue is really that they focused on breadth instead of depth. But I am unsure if the market would have reacted well if they did got for depth (because that would necessarily mean revisiting existing locations and expanding upon them instead of constantly creating new locations).

The game is edging towards 20 years old. I think even the most optimistic of developers back then would have had a much more conservative estimate of how long WoW would last before petering out.

[Nymrohd]

See you soon!

There are more options though. First off, you can have new areas without overcrowding. Underground. Floating above. On the other side of the planet.
Second you CAN revamp areas and use those for new content. If an area has not been used in two decades and is revamped completely, is it really old content?

[Shadochi]

There are more options though. First off, you can have new areas without overcrowding. Underground. Floating above. On the other side of the planet.
Second you CAN revamp areas and use those for new content. If an area has not been used in two decades and is revamped completely, is it really old content?

And to add to this, the map ingame isn't lore accurate some stuff is smaller (EK, Kali, Northrend) and other bigger (KT, Zanda, Broken Isles) to make it easier to navigate

[Nymrohd]

The game is edging towards 20 years old. I think even the most optimistic of developers back then would have had a much more conservative estimate of how long WoW would last before petering out.

That's true. And perhaps we would have been better of with WoW ending in Legion and then some form of WoW 2.0 coming after it.

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And to add to this, the map ingame isn't lore accurate some stuff is smaller (EK, Kali, Northrend) and other bigger (KT, Zanda, Broken Isles) to make it easier to navigate

Oh scale is completely off. A revamp could take any area and more than double it in size. I mean realistically, if any old area was to be updated by the standards of Kul Tiras, it would HAVE to be doubled. Lordaeron, Stormwind, Silvermoon should all be as large if not larger than Boralus.

[Khaza-R]

There are more options though. First off, you can have new areas without overcrowding. Underground. Floating above. On the other side of the planet.
Second you CAN revamp areas and use those for new content. If an area has not been used in two decades and is revamped completely, is it really old content?

Dragon Isles could just be a portal to the moon. Where dragons are really from for all we know.

At this point I would be pretty surprised if they end up just being some islands in the middle of the current map. Even if are just generic islands, they aren't bound by the same placement constraints for them like they were with Broken Isles, Kul Tiras and Zandalar. I have no idea why they wouldn't move them to the otherside of Azeroth.

[Shadochi]

Dragon Isles could just be a portal to the moon. Where dragons are really from for all we know.

At this point I would be pretty surprised if they end up just being some islands in the middle of the current map. Even if are just generic islands, they aren't bound by the same placement constraints for them like they were with Broken Isles, Kul Tiras and Zandalar. I have no idea why they wouldn't move them to the otherside of Azeroth.

They could also add them west of Kalimdor and then change the map to the maelstrom being in center. Or have an icon like Nazjatar, Argus and Zereth Mortis

[Das Thora]

There are more options though. First off, you can have new areas without overcrowding. Underground. Floating above. On the other side of the planet.
Second you CAN revamp areas and use those for new content. If an area has not been used in two decades and is revamped completely, is it really old content?

EverQuest does this where new expansions take place in revamped old zones. I would NOT mind an expansion taking place in a revamped version of any of these places personally (most approving to less approving but still happy with);

1. Lordaeron + Quel'thalas
2. Outland
3. Northrend
4. Central Kalimdor
5. Khaz Modan
6. Draenor (though preferably leading into new continents there too)
7. Southern Kalimdor
8. Stormwind/Azeroth (subcontinent)
9. The Elemental Plane
10. The Broken Isles (it wasn't that long ago I just love that place tho man)

[The Stormbringer]

One option could be that the Dragon Isles winds up as 10x's version of Argus. A really big zone broken into several pieces, each with their own theme, and then a big raid somewhere in there. The rest might be a bunch of revamped zones being the focus, as well as a few new zones, like an underground zone, maybe an island zone here, possibly an Emerald Dream-y zone there, that sort of thing.

[Khaza-R]

I thought it was interesting the HS VA for Galakrond (He's also Denathrius) posted something back in 2021 about being excited for a future project. A lot people assumed it was Final Fantasy related because he said he's out of FF jokes. But later clarified it wasn't FF related and was actually the opposite.

The opposite part is interesting to me because what is the opposite of Final Fantasy?

[huth]

Oh scale is completely off. A revamp could take any area and more than double it in size. I mean realistically, if any old area was to be updated by the standards of Kul Tiras, it would HAVE to be doubled. Lordaeron, Stormwind, Silvermoon should all be as large if not larger than Boralus.

Double? Try 5-10 times. Even Boralus is tiny and could house maybe a thousand people tops.

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There are more options though. First off, you can have new areas without overcrowding. Underground. Floating above. On the other side of the planet.
Second you CAN revamp areas and use those for new content. If an area has not been used in two decades and is revamped completely, is it really old content?

The map is a non-issue anyway. If it gets to full, they'll just make it zoom-in and split the continents to different submaps.

[Nymrohd]

Double? Try 5-10 times. Even Boralus is tiny and could house maybe a thousand people tops.

I don't think we need realistic scale. I'd say Boralus is perfect. It's large enough to have multiple areas that are meaningful and distinct with buildings where people could actually live, if somewhat crowded. I mean if you do scale it up at some point it will be too large to play in effectively.

[Syegfryed]

See you soon!

Concept from 2016, i guess we are heading there

not gonna lie, i would like to go to trollia

[huth]

I don't think we need realistic scale. I'd say Boralus is perfect. It's large enough to have multiple areas that are meaningful and distinct with buildings where people could actually live, if somewhat crowded. I mean if you do scale it up at some point it will be too large to play in effectively.

Could be interesting to have a zone that is really just one big city, though. Like if Suramar really was the entire zone.

You could probably make an entire expansion continent, even. Different zones being different districts, including park and maybe farm districts.

[Wangming]

What is the opposite of Final Fantasy?

First Reality

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Could be interesting to have a zone that is really just one big city, though. Like if Suramar really was the entire zone.

You could probably make an entire expansion continent, even. Different zones being different districts, including park and maybe farm districts.

Oh absolutely. I love those kinds of settings. Like how the Witcher was in one well developed city from start to end. How Dragon Age II fleshed out Kirkwaal for the entire game. Act III of Diablo II was one overgrown city and not all but most of the Act V of Diablo III was in Westmarch. If there is a revolt or an invasion in a city, you can have some friendly and some completely hostile districts. More and less afluent residential areas can provide a change in scenery. A huge park, a harbor, a cemetery....these can all be new zones. I always hoped for one like that for FFXIV, but could also work in WoW. Or anywhere for that matter.

[micwini]

There is no indication that any cosmic force created multiple timelines. And they were pretty ordered and isolated until Chaos messed them up

Hence why it is the seventh!!

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Order is not the creator though. The Titans did not create worlds, they ordered them. The Force of Order did not create reality, it imposes order on it. If multiple timelines exist, it makes sure they are tidy but it doesn't create them. Creation itself is the realm of the First Ones.

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The Bronze flight could find other timelines, it's how Kairoz found the WoD one. I think it works like the Wheel of Time (no idea if the series touched it); there are multiple timelines running parallel to each other but there is a Prime timeline and every other one is somewhat less real.

Yes exactly! The titans ordered time. Which means it existed before them, meaning it is a seperate force.

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Furthermore the First Ones crafted forces in natural opposition. They created both Order and Disorder. So the intent of the design naturally is that Order always has something to shape and Disorder always has something to deform.

Time only goes in one direction, which is why it doesnt have an opposite. This is why the new theory from 6 forces is that there are 7, instead of 8.

[huth]

Time only goes in one direction, which is why it doesnt have an opposite. This is why the new theory from 6 forces is that there are 7, instead of 8.

No, it's not. The theory is seven forces because we've been outright told there is at least one more and we have 6 that are already known.

For that matter, whether time only has one direction or is even a force at all is questionable.

[Alanar]

See you soon!

Concept from 2016, i guess we are heading there

I hate what they did to the map anyway. Maelstrom was moved cus of broken isles lol. Nazjatar wasnt even on the map. The world map is just shit..

[Wangming]

Time only goes in one direction, which is why it doesnt have an opposite. This is why the new theory from 6 forces is that there are 7, instead of 8.

You could argue that stasis is the opposite of time. Wether you look at time as progress or entropy is up to you. But an opposite can be created. Dark Illuminated the light, order made sense of the chaos, and time ended stagnation.If the opposites were created this way, an interesting conclusion presents itself. Death is a solution to life. Overpopulation, maybe? Something that was never alive can't be considered dead. Ergo death could not have existed first.

[uikolertekopoku]

No, it's not. The theory is seven forces because we've been outright told there is at least one more and we have 6 that are already known.

For that matter, whether time only has one direction or is even a force at all is questionable.

And if the six (or seven, or... excuse my imprecision) each vie with one another to claim it, could they be driven by the unconscious knowledge that there exists some other force outside our understanding that seeks it as well?

- Expedition Report A37J - Part 4, page 5

When you read the Report with understanding, they are setting up a 7th Force, wich is part of our Cosmos, thats why this additional Force is counted as 7.

But when you read that there can exists some other Force outside our understanding,

You have than theoretical „8“ Forces.

So we are allready going the Way that there is a Force outside the box.

Setting up even more dangerous „Threats“ meet them in 6-10 years.

[Wangming]

And if the six (or seven, or... excuse my imprecision) each vie with one another to claim it, could they be driven by the unconscious knowledge that there exists some other force outside our understanding that seeks it as well?

- Expedition Report A37J - Part 4, page 5

When you read the Report with understanding, they are setting up a 7th Force, wich is part of our Cosmos, thats why this additional Force is counted as 7.

But when you read that there can exists some other Force outside our understanding,

You have than theoretical „8“ Forces.

So we are allready going the Way that there is a Force outside the box.

Setting up even more dangerous „Threats“ meet them in 6-10 years.

Well whatever Zovaal wanted to prepair the cosmos for, it is implied to be external to it, so an 8th force is as good as confirmed. Wether time is one of these cannot be determined at the present.