Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rhorle]

You still have no understood what i talk about. I talk about changing the gameplay for matchmade groups only, not for premade groups, and about moving away from group goals to personal goals in matchmade gameplay.

You can't do that though because the rewards are the same. You are asking them to make two copies of everything and allow for solo play as a group. That is silly. It already is up to the individual player to survive an encounter. Removing the need for tanks and healers in M+ is a fundamental change to how the combat in the game works. Why join a group and change group play if what you really are looking for is a 100% solo experience?

You already have to care about not standing in fire. You are already supposed to care about doing the mechanics of the encounters. This sounds like a you problem. You don't care so it has to be the system that is wrong rather then you being wrong. You lack the personal accountability you want the game to force upon you. Lol.

No, a bad implementation does that, where choreographed gameplay is watered down to nothing.

Right. Because the players over the years did not want a normal difficulty LFR. So it was made easier to accomplish because people don't want to play it the way you think they do.

[Alexjimithing]

You still have not understood what i talk about. It is really hard to talk to someone who is both fanatic and incapable to comprehend the most easy statements. I talk about changing the gameplay for matchmade groups only, not for premade groups, and about moving away from group goals to personal goals in matchmade gameplay. Means, it is up to you to survive an encounter rather than to healers and tanks, and the design would ask you for caring about not standing in puddles of oozes, it would be about you caring for enough engagement in gameplay to actually give you credit for the kill of the encounter rather than taking the overall performance of everyone and whiping the raid if too many people are AFK.

Rather than mechanics that engage the tank only, i would add mechanics that would engage everyone to play their part rather than to bore everyone to death.

The simple consequence of people doing nothing in LFR would be they would receive nothing. And die if they never move to anywhere, while the difficulty would be scaled down to the size of the still alive players by actually rewarding them if they manage to kill the encounter at the end. And yes, if it is only 3 character left, only they would receive the reward. Get better by avoiding the puddles. And retry.

This immediately falls apart because members of a raid rely on each other- it's a group activity, that's the whole point.

Who's to say someone didn't die because a healer faltered in their healing or because a tank fucked up aggro?

[Lahis]

This can't be serious, their big ass wings are just for show?

This race/class keeps getting dumber and dumber, confirming its just DH 2.0 sold as race

Precicely this.

They don't get full extent of Dragonriding mechanics, because then they would ignore the dragon mount and all of its customization and content.

And since Dragonriding is not regular flying (floating in place without regards to physics and moving at static speed), they can't fly outside of Dragon Isles, just glide.

[Syegfryed]

Precicely this.

They don't get full extent of Dragonriding mechanics, because then they would ignore the dragon mount and all of its customization and content.

And since Dragonriding is not regular flying (floating in place without regards to physics and moving at static speed), they can't fly outside of Dragon Isles, just glide.

This is bonkers. Even druids can fly with their druid forms, and this joke of a race can't.

[SunspotAnims]

Dragon form can't fly. On Dragon Isles it has access to basic version of Dragonriding, elsewhere it is just a glider like DH wings.

This isn't necessarily true. The wording on the MMOChamp recap describes it this way but the actual interview states otherwise.

Basically, Dracthyr can use base-level dragonriding mechanics everywhere (not just Dragon Isles), but aren't able to upgrade it as with actual dragonriding, and base-level dragonriding is described as DH gliding plus the ability to gain some height and momentum.

[Nebron]

It also hasn't been stated that Azeroth is waking up, thats speculation to.

Well, I should rather say 'Azeroth is healing', or the process of her renewal has begun, which is literally stated in the cinematic.

[Nymrohd]

This is bonkers. Even druids can fly with their druid forms, and this joke of a race can't.

Are you comparing class utility with racials? Really?

[Alexjimithing]

It would not fall apart if the setting would support it. And that is what i talk about. The challenge would be simply different. And your death would never cost a wipe but simply your loot. Decide if you want loot. If you want loot, play as good as possible.

Then what you're talking about isn't even a raid, it's a fundamentally different type of game mode with entirely different encounters that as far as I'm aware doesn't exist in -any- MMO. Like, this would exist alongside LFR, it wouldn't be able to replace it because it's an entirely different type of game mode than completing the end game raids at an easier difficulty.

You also have tremendous balancing/class issues. If the encounter was winnable with only one person left why would anyone play anything but tank? What purpose do healers serve? What if someone dies because the healer failed- why would the healer get credit for completion but not the person they failed to heal?

'play as good as possible' is a meaningless statement when each player has clearly defined roles. A tank/healer/DPS could 'play as good as possible' but still enter a fail state because their spec kit is not able to heal, or hold aggro, or tank damage, or whatever else.

It sounds like you just want to play Elden Ring.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well, I should rather say 'Azeroth is healing', or the process of her renewal has begun, which is literally stated in the cinematic.

Doesn't mean she is waking up though, its an assumption. Anything that big, Blizzard would outright say it.

[Nymrohd]

This isn't necessarily true. The wording on the MMOChamp recap describes it this way but the actual interview states otherwise.

Basically, Dracthyr can use base-level dragonriding mechanics everywhere (not just Dragon Isles), but aren't able to upgrade it as with actual dragonriding, and base-level dragonriding is described as DH gliding plus the ability to gain some height and momentum.

I thought the idea is you can get a bit of height with starting momentum and if you dive to build up momentum and pull back up you can reach higher spots? Though yeah, no one probably knows how the skill advances.

[huth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Which doesn't apply here because your lack of actual understanding is directly relevant to the argument. So yeah, not ad hominem.

[Raetary]

Dracthyr will have access to the base mechanics of Dragon Riding.

So they can glide and gain elevation, and perhaps even dive.

[rhorle]

If you die in a bossfight in a mythic+ solo queue setting, you would not receive any reward. It would be up to you to master the personal challenges, while a healer would be supportive but could not save your ass, and a tank would have his personal challenge, as long we want to keep the holy trinity.

How will the group still succeed if they no longer have the dps to do the fight? It is group play for a reason because the entire group needs the group to succeed. You are talking about making changes to the core combat system of WoW which is far and beyond match making. If a tank can kill a boss by themselves then there is no group challenge. It is no longer M+.

Premade or match making doesn't change anything about what you are proposing. If you don't want to be engaged as a group then don't do group play. It is that simple. Random or pre-made doesn't change that fact.

[Syegfryed]

Are you comparing class utility with racials? Really?

Yes, the race is dragons with big ass wings, they should fly.

Especially when you realize this is a class sold as race, so, just like druids, they should fly as well.

And no, i don't see nothing wrong with they having a version of worgens running wild but with flying instead.

[SunspotAnims]

I thought the idea is you can get a bit of height with starting momentum and if you dive to build up momentum and pull back up you can reach higher spots? Though yeah, no one probably knows how the skill advances.

On the base level, yeah that seems to be how dragonriding works and what Dracthyr will likely be able to do innately. What I mean is that without upgrades you probably won't be able to gain as much height or speed nor would you be able to do some momentum-boosting abilities like the barrel roll that's been shown off in some gameplay.

[rhorle]

The content would scale. The healer dies or tank dies? The mobs deal less damage. The players that are still alive would have to avoid all puddles of oozes and exploding gnomes. If they did, they would succeed. If you die, you are responsible. Noone else. That would be a setting that would work with challenging gameplay in matchmade groups. If you play like an ass, you will receive shit. Simple solution.

Why have group play if it is individual encounters that don't rely on other group members? Why not just have it be solo with out the group?

No, it would be solo queue mythic+. A new game mode for solo players who queue up with a random group. Where players do not know each other. Where everyone focused on his own doing. And cannot know how the others would work. The best solution is simply to utilize that settings in its gameplay.

If you are playing in a group you are no longer a solo player.

[Alexjimithing]

Have you ever played Lost Ark? As there are no dedicated healers and only limited tanks it is mostly about personal challenges. And yes, it is a different mode, in this case it would be a solo queue for dungeons and raids, and yes, it would need dedicated gameplay to be fun. The mistake the developers made was they simply took gameplay from premade groups and adapted it to matchmade groups, whichs result was watering it down until the gameplay was not engaging anymore. The solution to this simply is to add gameplay that fits to the setting.

I don’t believe you understand the gravity of the changes required for this type of game mode. It would be -entirely different encounters- than what are in dungeons and raids. It would not replace LFG or LFR in any way shape or form- the way classes work and specs work wouldn’t allow it.

Lost Ark still has choreography/raid wiping mechanics that one person can fuck up. The game mode you’re suggesting exists, it’s called ‘play a single player game’.

[rhorle]

Because group play still is what a MMORPG should be about, right? Even if it was matchmaking. And considering that matchmaking is the most successfull tool to build groups ever, it even was worth the effort.

Then let it be group play. You can't make it 100% solo play with others and still target that aspect of an MMORPG. Lol.

[Makorus]

Because group play still is what a MMORPG should be about, right? Even if it was matchmaking. And considering that matchmaking is the most successfull tool to build groups ever, it even was worth the effort.



Solo queue for matchmade group content. Whichs group dynamics are completely different to what premade groups play. Because of that it needs dedicated design.

But it's not really group play if the presence of other players is entirely irrelevant.

[Alexjimithing]

Very rarely, and no, i talk about matchmade group play, not solo gameplay. I talk about a solo queue, a matchmaking system in pve, which groups together foreigners rather than people who play like a team. In that setting applying premade group gameplay simply is stupid. Blizzard should add gameplay that fits to the group setting.

If your success depends entirely upon you and what everyone else does doesn’t matter to your success state that is solo play, not group play. Your idea simply does not work in an MMO with class and spec based player abilities. It is unfeasible to such a degree that what you’re asking for is for Blizzard to basically launch an entirely new game within WoW with entirely new classes/specs/abilities/balancing maintained alongside the normal game.

Proselytize all you want but there’s a reason this game mode has not, and will not, ever exist in an MMO.