Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rhorle]

I nowhere said this would be entirely limited to your own survival. You just made that up to get an argument going. If you do all of these three, you would receive loot. If you died, you received no loot. Also, you had no second chance. A wipe would mean you lose the encounter, and proceed to the next.

Even a tank alone could master to kill the boss, if he was the last man standing in that setting and if he avoided all the puddles of ooze and exploding gnomes.

Want to try again?

Well, yes. But here we are. Trying to convince them to do things better. Instead of giving up they should evolve their concepts. Instead of removing challenges for millions of players they should evolve their concepts.

They didn't give up. It is arrogant to think your idea is automatically better when you can't even keep it straight. No challenges were removed because matchmade content was never been difficult.

But there is a difference between a sandbox game with user driven content and a theme park MMORPG where you have to create content every few weeks.

There is not. It all comes from code and an idea. You keep saying how incomptent developers of a highly succesful 18 year old game are. And how your ideas are so much better that millions of players quit because they don't exist. So go and code your own game and prove everyone wrong. Stardew valley is another example of a single dev creating a multi-million dollar success.

Blizzard doesn't act like hurt divas when they fail. You keep having to insult them for no reason. It is strange. It is also strange for your to call MMORPGs the most ch allenging games you could imagine while at the same time complaining that WoW isn't challenging at all for solo players. It also shows that your experience with gaming is very narrow if no other game is a challenge. Let me guess you've mastered all the Dark Souls line of games and are some elite solo player?

[KayRule]

Please do not excuse Blizzard's abhorrent design, intentional dismissal of feedback and focus on keeping people playing boring content over long periods of time to drive up "engagement numbers". There are core issues with design ethos that need to be dismantled for WoW to continue to grow and become a good game someday. Walking back on the cancer they've been rolling out the last 3-4 expansions is part of the step, but addressing other blatant issues is a key to moving forward.

[Lady Atia]

Apparently you can have hot pink Drac'thyr lol. Some peopl are going to get really upset over neon/brilliant colors. The new interview also mentioned hair being able to customize top and bottom colors. And they have access to a bunch of different face shapes so it doesn't even sound like the Visage form is human and blood elf but some unique race that just combines their features.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/wellpla...-snoots-326820

Direct link to full interview rather then the wowhead summary: https://www.well-played.com.au/drago...xpansion-devs/

Awesome interview! It feels so wholesome to see WoW in good hands again, and I feel well represented by devs like Jackie. Looking back f.e. at the Legion announcement, that feels super gringy and "bro like" now and I'm glad they changed. Also - oc we will get pink and purple Drac'thyr, they are chromatic dragonkin afterall so it makes sense to give them these colours!

Still a bit anxious that they haven't confirmed that you will be able to customize your dragons independend for your characters. My mage f.e. will want to befriend blue drakes, while my paladin has her eyes on red ones. My huntress just wants a white protodrake!

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Also:

We are REALLY excited about that. Repeatable content has always been under the purview of one big quest team, and we love doing it, but it’s nice having more people to make more things and put focus on unique things. We are super excited to have these folks who have been around WoW development for so long and are getting to play with the action figures in new, unique ways and figure out what is fun for players to hop into.

Looks like they have a dedicated team for open world content now =)

[Revamp Man]

Blizzard would never replace the current model with the Drakonid model. It would look stupid being such a highly mobile caster, and it's such a small minority asking for that. I do think they will add more body options though given the amount of people criticising the current one.

I can see drakonid becoming an allied race possibly

[Makorus]

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For challenging gameplay you actually need that. Sure, you do not need it for mythic+3, or normal raids you also could pug, but beside that, as like heroic or mythic raids, you actually need raid and group leaders telling you what do to.



Thing is, many would never use the premade group finder as it simply is way too selective. Especially casual gamers that cannot stay on par with ilevel. A matchmade group finder would also include those players, even on the same level as they already are. And in a component which would value personal accountablity more than group performance, even ilevel could be incorporated into the personal challenge balance.



But you still receive the loot of the first boss. And we talk about matchmaking versus permade groups and the relentless premade group finder. Matchmaking always would win based on participation numbers.



I do want matchmaking gameplay with challenges. Which is possible. Contrary to blizzards dogma it is not.



No, it is group content, but based on the matchmade group system. Which is actually what most players like to play. Queue up. Join. Play. Rather than. "Oh wait, that guy has score -3 on gobber.io, no lets not take him!" and "Wait, lets use that group finder, select by ilevel descending, pick the first 4 and here we go!".

On what planet do you live where you need actual voice chat on Heroic Pugs or +15s? Lords of Dread without WAs is the only one that actually requires communication.

Casual players absolutely can stay on par with the ilvl required. Cypher gear alone gives you 252, you got two 291 items, one 262 item, and that's going to be enough to join Heroic pugs.

Once again, statements like "Oh wait, that guy has score -3 on gobber.io, no lets not take him!" just show me that you don't even try to pug. Because no one actually gives a shit, not for a 15 anyway. Sure, people are not gonna take a 232 person with a score of 200, but that's part of progression.

The reason people prefer matchmade systems is because nothing happens for them when they play terribly, and there is no incentive to improve. What you are suggesting would help, but then again, it's easy to say "oh yeah, it will reward you for playing good, but you will not get anything for playing bad". That means nothing. What if I play amazing, but then die early on in the fight because someone else messes up a mechanic.

Do I get punished? Do mechanics like that no longer exist? Do soaking mechanics no longer exist? Do group1/2 phases no longer exist?

What you are suggesting is the solution to a problem that is summed up as "Maybe MMOs are not for you if your social anxiety prevents you from grouping up with other people".

[Nymrohd]

What you are suggesting is the solution to a problem that is summed up as "Maybe MMOs are not for you if your social anxiety prevents you from grouping up with other people".

It's not really the solution to that either. The solution to that is providing an environment that eases up social anxiety so people feel more comfortable joining group content. Open Raid did that wonderfully, I remember grouping with a lot of people at Open Raid who felt that because of the additional control and the better ability to plan for your run their social anxiety eased enough for them to be able to enjoy group content. Guilds do it the best, communities do it adequately. Giving more tools to large communities for forming groups, easing the restrictions for joining guilds (e.g. ESO allows you to join multiple guilds), it can all help people who enjoy the gameplay and the world but suffer from social anxiety better handle that restriction to their game experience.

[Lady Atia]

It's not really the solution to that either. The solution to that is providing an environment that eases up social anxiety so people feel more comfortable joining group content. Open Raid did that wonderfully, I remember grouping with a lot of people at Open Raid who felt that because of the additional control and the better ability to plan for your run their social anxiety eased enough for them to be able to enjoy group content. Guilds do it the best, communities do it adequately. Giving more tools to large communities for forming groups, easing the restrictions for joining guilds (e.g. ESO allows you to join multiple guilds), it can all help people who enjoy the gameplay and the world but suffer from social anxiety better handle that restriction to their game experience.

Well, I think guilds are hold back by spaghetti code, hence we got the communities feature. Sadly that one never really took off and instead was used for boosting stuff most of the time instead of an alternative to guilds. Maybe moving Hall of Fame to communities would help with that?

[Nymrohd]

Well, I think guilds are hold back by spaghetti code, hence we got the communities feature. Sadly that one never really took off and instead was used for boosting stuff most of the time instead of an alternative to guilds. Maybe moving Hall of Fame to communities would help with that?

I hope that when cross faction play inevitably leads to cross faction guilds, they take the opportunity to really revamp the way those work. And perhaps bring some of the feature of guilds back. But we definitely need the ability to join multiple guilds.

[Lady Atia]

I hope that when cross faction play inevitably leads to cross faction guilds, they take the opportunity to really revamp the way those work. And perhaps bring some of the feature of guilds back. But we definitely need the ability to join multiple guilds.

Maybe the best solution would be to merge guilds and communities?

[ExiHext]

I mean, if they didn't do that for worgen. Also, I think that this Dracthyr drama is way overblown.

I mean this is mmo-champion. When were people's reactions to ANY given topic not totally overblown? Be it fruit bowls or new races or whatever.

[deucecorp]

I do not have to as you grasp at last straws here? Even that last man standing would have to play his directives. Even if all others in the group failed.

...

Stop going ad hominem.

Just let them be. I understand you want some REAL fresh blood in this game, and that's what actually would be awesome.
But as you read around you can easily find out most players are thrilled about cosmetics and sea calf races these days. Barely anything else besides that. Because simply, sad to say, but nothing else is being introduced anymore ..
Players happily farm the actual Timeless Isle (Zerak Moktus) for +3 mounts and enjoy the "mega dungeon" coming in every x.1 patch, then getting split up in x.2 patch. 80% of raid boss scripts are so dull and lame, that I don't even watch beforehand on youtube anymore just queueing HC raids and able to kill/heal on first or second pull without messing up.
Guilds are dead - apart from Mythic guilds. Everyone everywhere else is pugging or just cba to show up on guild raids. M+ can be done off friend list or pugging.

Yes the game is going for 18 years, however since Pandaria the only expac worth mentioning was Legion.

And you are right, they design stuff just to take it out later.
Because who wants +9 flask proc when crafting? Or bonus rolls on loot? While most of the playerbase's biggest desires are flying a dragun (you can even turn into a dragon for 10 years just saying) or be a sea calf.

Talent trees will save the day! Like the selfie camera. And people still believe the exact same shenanigans at every expac, Dragonflight development started back in 1974 with fully changed mindset... Ye, sure. Up until the next Timeless Isle shows up on the horizon again,,, and again.

[Syegfryed]

Hopefully they add two tone hair customization to other races eventually. Especially Worgen!

You though this expansion was about dragons? it was about e-girl hairstyles!

To all races eventually!

Wanna be a gnome or a tauren dragon? forget, here is some pink and green mixed hairstyle.

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I can see drakonid becoming an allied race possibly

Not going to happen, they will say if you want a dragon race go pick dracthyr

[KayRule]

Fortnite also is designed so that you can play at your own pace instead of treating the game like a daily job. In WoW if you miss your dailies your permanently behind thanks to timegating and caps. You are actively punished for not playing every single day and getting your full potential gains in a day. In Fortnite you are actually rewarded for taking breaks. If you come back after taking two weeks off, you will have more to do and level up faster in the time you are spending playing, than if you played every single day. The reward for playing daily is your enjoyment of the game, and your "grinds" such as the battle pass are made easier over time.

Everyone is going to freak out and intentionally take the wrong things from this, but WoW should take more cues from Fortnite. It wasn't always this way, it took years before they got to a Battlepass and quest system that wasn't fucking terrible, and the reward for that has been massive, exponential growth in players.

[Makorus]

On a planet where you have to tell everyone you are able to pug +15s and heroic raids only a small percentage of players ever see?



What do you not understand when someone says:
- premade groups are too much commitment
- casual gamers rarely can stay on par with ilevel, and even then, gobber.io would show a score of -3, as they rarely play mythic+ dungeons and have less experience than another player
- casual gamers rely on matchmaking

and why do you think players have to adapt to a game system rather than asking the developer to cater their systems to those who play the game?

Same question goes to @Nymrohd . Why do you think players want to socialize in a game when all they want to do is to play a fast session in a matchmade group? Why do you think games like LoL or Fortnite are successfull? Surely not because you have to use a group finder with group selection process, but simply because there is fast, uncomplicated matchmaking. I cannot really understand why anyone would force people into a meritocracy or into socializing, if all they really want to do is to queue up, press join and play.

Q: Why isn't Wow as successfull as games like Fortnite or LoL?
A: There is no matchmaking for engaging content in World of Warcraft

Simple. Easy.

I mean, if people were given the choice, and there was a queue that would play the game for them and get them the reward with no input whatsoever, then people would probably choose that over all the alternatives as well. People choose the path of least resistance. Just like people would play "AFK Queues" in LoL that played the game for them to get them free MMR.

Premade Groups aren't a commitment at all. You keep saying that, but you never explain what it means. Casual players can EASILY stay on par with ilvl. You get a free 278 item a week for doing one M+. Open-World content gives gear on par with normal raids. That's ~20 min investment a day for the Cypher gear and a ~40 min investment a week for the M+.

Additionally, no one gives a shit about your M+ Score for a +15. As long as you are 255+ (which, once again, can literally be achieved through the bare minimum of Open World Content), no one cares.

The issue I have with your argument is that you want the developers to fundamentally change how the game functions just because "it would be easier to just queue up". Encounter designs would have to degrade to FFXIV levels instead of what they are now (not the peak anymore, but still miles ahead of the competition) just to incorporate any of your ideas.

Challenging content and queue able content are on the opposite spectrum because 50% of the player base is trash.

[Lorca]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/wellpla...26820#comments




YOU CAN CHOOSE TO REPRESENT YOURSELF....

...but you are forced to represent yourself as a male blood elf and a female human, just that, what a huge joke



thats it, problem fixed, you represent yourself with SO MANY DIFFERENT HAIR COLORS, this is how you express yourself as dracthyr, picking two tone hair option

I think i will just stop reading the interviews.

Yeah, that's a bit of a joke... the "express yourself with your hair 8D" thing... not even both genders for Blood Elves and Humans... It seems (and it's just my sensation after reading different interviews about the Dracthyr) that they're putting all the focus on the visage form (especially in the hair options) for customization instead in the actual dragon form, which should be the main focus.

[deucecorp]

On a planet where you have to tell everyone you are able to pug +15s and heroic raids only a small percentage of players ever see?

I'm wholeheartedly with you, learned coding myself too.. I wish for challenging systems, mechanics. pretty sure they could do nice things instead of re-hashing the same stuff for 100 times. but see? people still happy, they claim game is "best of the best" for 18 years.
I don't share your opinion about this what quoted above though. game has changed a lot.
you know who you find in a M+15 these days? especially at the end of expac? the ultra casual.. who can't even interrupt or WASD. the "smaller percentage" already doing +20-25 keys.
who are pugging heroic raids? the ultra casual who can't put down a portal on Artificer Xy'mox and they die. but they are on their 3rd alts!
the "1%" already on the last few mythic bosses or farming the raid on mythic.

game turned basically so joke, even my 3rd alt has mythic item level 278 tier gloves, while I only queued 2x normal raid bosses on that char. you can craft mythic tier without entering the raid basically. jokes. FREE mythic loot given away for zero efforts. and see. again. people enjoy and bragging about that this is good, this is fine.

but I stop here with the "hate" about the 28th Timeless Isle before getting flamed & banned for good.
I'm just trying to be realistic.

100% granted we won't be popular with our opinion here. because sea calf. and dragon man. all that matters.
well, I started this game when 20, now I'm 40. I can tell you, I myself change and evolve more and more every single year than this game does. lol

[ImTheMizAwesome]

"YOU CAN CHOOSE TO REPRESENT YOURSELF...." is just a company talk, it was just as fake as this roundtable stuff.

[Lady Atia]

Btw, I just realized Kaleg has wrists in the same style as the armour of the Sapphire Skyblazer, so it's prolly coming from the blue dragon zone:





Let's hope we also get the bright yellow version that was datamined down the line, aswell as a more orange, propper phoenix like, recolour!

[deucecorp]

"YOU CAN CHOOSE TO REPRESENT YOURSELF...." is just a company talk, it was just as fake as this roundtable stuff.

Everything is big pharma talk for a few years already. But the number of raids, dungeons, meaningful features are constantly decreasing. "maps are big, talent trees are big". I didn't have big hopes, but that's all I heard last week.
Also game is so challenging, I was healing a +18 after half bottle of scotch whisky 2 weeks ago at 4AM. Not a single person died and chain lightning spam + earth elemental as healer did a solid 8k dps overall total..... 2 buttons (3 with riptide).
That's pretty funny, because I only play 1-2 months, then 6 months break. "catch up" systems are pretty good.

[KayRule]

Everything is big pharma talk for a few years already. But the number of raids, dungeons, meaningful features are constantly decreasing. "maps are big, talent trees are big". I didn't have big hopes, but that's all I heard last week.
Also game is so challenging, I was healing a +18 after half bottle of scotch whisky 2 weeks ago at 4AM. Not a single person died and chain lightning spam + earth elemental as healer did a solid 8k dps overall total..... 2 buttons (3 with riptide).
That's pretty funny, because I only play 1-2 months, then 6 months break. "catch up" systems are pretty good.

Raids and dungeons are not meaningful features.