Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

Yeah sarcasm aside it's clear that Classic just... is losing its mojo steadily. At least if you wanted an authentic, slower experience. Without the in-flow of new players the game has kinda degraded into "use a speed leveling guide to hit the cap and then spam content with your guild."

Classic is clear evidence why, well, Classic expansion wouldn't work and why they are introducing all these side stuff to keep you occupied with better or worse results.

Like we need another evidence after WoD, but some people think argument is invalid when you use it too often xD.

[huth]

At this point Blizzard needs to add some content to the game if they plan on competing with Endwalker. I read once that it took them a week to make Molten Core; they should make a new raid to come out around the time of Endwalker and a new 5 player dungeon. Create a timeless isle like zone as well to attract players. At this point, they need something to add on to Korthia if they hope to keep players attention during Endwalker.

Molten Core had bosses whose abilities were limited to a single target shadow bolt and rain of fire. It's not hard to see how they managed to bang that out in a week, but it's also nowhere remotely close to what would be deemed acceptable today.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nes/1094215/23

Sign of life, Mage Tower PTR Testing upcoming. (Also is that WoW Developer tag new for forum posters? First time I've seen it.)

[Raetary]

I read once that it took them a week to make Molten Core; they should make a new raid to come out around the time of Endwalker and a new 5 player dungeon. Create a timeless isle like zone as well to attract players. At this point, they need something to add on to Korthia if they hope to keep players attention during Endwalker.

MC is also wows very first raid instance from 2004, its almost entirely (and by almost, i mean only a single boss had a unique model) made with reused art assets and every boss has very few and very simple mechanics.

That shit does not fly today.

Blizzard can't just snap their fingers and conjure content out of thin air.

[Nyel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nes/1094215/23

Sign of life, Mage Tower PTR Testing upcoming. (Also is that WoW Developer tag new for forum posters? First time I've seen it.)

If Mage Tower testing only starts tomorrow I guess the most optimistic release date for 9.1.5 is October 26 or later.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

If Mage Tower testing only starts tomorrow I guess the most optimistic release date for 9.1.5 is October 26 or later.

Seems likely, hoping for this and not November. I really just want November to be the boon over the holiday.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Classic is clear evidence why, well, Classic expansion wouldn't work and why they are introducing all these side stuff to keep you occupied with better or worse results.

Like we need another evidence after WoD, but some people think argument is invalid when you use it too often xD.

The theme of Classic like the lore feel is probably part of the draw. Which I won't lie its growing on me(Not Classic overall the theme of Azeroth focus. Not necessarily the cosmic entitity but basically soft world revamp but again its a dream).


Also we need an underground expansion....but I'm biased.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Classic is clear evidence why, well, Classic expansion wouldn't work and why they are introducing all these side stuff to keep you occupied with better or worse results.

Like we need another evidence after WoD, but some people think argument is invalid when you use it too often xD.

Strong disagree that "Because Classic didn't kill Retail, Artificial Engagement is good."

Like Artificial Engagement, AKA Timegates, AKA Artifact Powers, AKA World Quests are all parts of why I still prefer Classic over Retail even if Classic has clearly been warped into some speedrun race.

A stripped-down expansion with less focus on shiny bells and timegated whistles is still design-wise a big part of what the game needs. Focus on the process of getting to the end result and making that feel good, not on new single-expansion features.

[Dracullus]

Strong disagree that "Because Classic didn't kill Retail, Artificial Engagement is good."

Like Artificial Engagement, AKA Timegates, AKA Artifact Powers, AKA World Quests are all parts of why I still prefer Classic over Retail even if Classic has clearly been warped into some speedrun race.

A stripped-down expansion with less focus on shiny bells and timegated whistles is still design-wise a big part of what the game needs. Focus on the process of getting to the end result and making that feel good, not on new single-expansion features.

"Just make game feel good". What an amazing advice, I hope someone on Blizzard will listen to it and make game feel good, cause it's so easy.

We are not talking about your engagement. Plenty of people likes different expacs, including WoD. We are talking about community in general. You can't be blind to fact how fast TBC hype was gone. "Nothing to do" (figure of speech) expacs where power progression is striped to dungeon/raid/PVP gearing like old WoW, WoD or 9.0 simply drove casuals away. And if they are away it's hard as hell to bring them back mid expac. If we add current scandal on top if feels like impossible task.

9.0 wasn't even so bad, cause there were shit ton of cosmetics to earn, but drought killed hype before 9.1 could fix it with easier M+ or removing low gear ceiling.

Now look on Legion launch or hell, even BfA mid to late 8.3, grindy as hell - essences, neck level, corruptions was busiest content drought in 10 years (source: Blizzard).

[Luck4]

Really hoping we'd get something on 9.2 at this point, this is ridiculous.

I mean, X.2 patches usually lasted for 6-7 months in previous expansions, so 9.1 lasting until February, around 8 months, with all things considered is pretty normal. I don't get this outrage.

If you think that Blizzard will release patches in the same cadence we had in Legion (77 days) I think, it's better to find something else to play. The 6-8 months cadence is the new normal.

[therumblings]

If you think that Blizzard will release patches in the same cadence we had in Legion (77 days) I think, it's better to find something else to play. The 6-8 months cadence is the new normal.

That's pretty horrible. Legion had the perfect cadence, the patch cycle of Shadowlands is killing the game and killing hype, I'm hoping it's just a Shadowlands thing because of covid and far from being the new normal.

[Lahis]

China is not pro-LGBTQTIOJ, California is.

Must be hard for Blizzard. China's and California's policies couldn't be more different when it comes to progressiveness.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I wonder how permanent WFH will work into all of this. Will it slow the development process or will it speed it up once its in full swing? Will it cause disruptive communication problems internally with the teams and lead to issues festering for far longer than previously? What about leadership people being permanent WFH and what will that lead to internally. I really am curious to see how that shapes up for the product.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Must be hard for Blizzard. China's and California's policies couldn't be more different when it comes to progressiveness.

They and everyone else in the entertainment industry has long since figured out how to solve that: Easily removable/rewritable token characters. Most of the sterlization of the material can be done without stepping on either side's toes. You can get easily past the censors on either side, appealing to the audience is the bigger issue. Let's just say you can scrape Boyega off a poster, not so easily off the entire film, though the games industry has it way easier here, since characters are just handily formatted data that can easily be manipulated.

[Nyel]

I mean, X.2 patches usually lasted for 6-7 months in previous expansions, so 9.1 lasting until February, around 8 months, with all things considered is pretty normal. I don't get this outrage.

If you think that Blizzard will release patches in the same cadence we had in Legion (77 days) I think, it's better to find something else to play. The 6-8 months cadence is the new normal.

Content patches usually lasted 6-6.5 months, this has not much to do with Legion's schedule, that was the normal for most expansions. Legion just had an exact timing for all of its patches with 77 days between them, but the on average 6 months lifespan of content patches has been here at least since Mists of Pandaria. In previous expansions they released content patches even faster (in WotLK within 4 months, in Cataclysm within 4-5).

[draugril]

Strong disagree that "Because Classic didn't kill Retail, Artificial Engagement is good."

Like Artificial Engagement, AKA Timegates, AKA Artifact Powers, AKA World Quests are all parts of why I still prefer Classic over Retail even if Classic has clearly been warped into some speedrun race.

A stripped-down expansion with less focus on shiny bells and timegated whistles is still design-wise a big part of what the game needs. Focus on the process of getting to the end result and making that feel good, not on new single-expansion features.

Precisely. They've lost the forest for the trees - the game is inherently enjoyable, but they make you do so much content you aren't primarily interested in to be able to engage with your primary interest that it actively detracts from enjoyment across the board.

This weekend, I had some free time and it happened to align with my brother's free time as well. We both like raiding, but neither of us have the time to keep up in WoW. So we hopped over to FFXIV. I crafted him a set of gear and he was instantly viable for current raiding. We tackled some Extremes in a PUG and it was fantastic.

WoW developers would see "raid logging" as an issue and force those players to jump through a million hoops before they can viably raid, and keep them jumping through hoops to keep them viable. It's exhausting, even if you enjoy the gameplay.

[Sondrelk]

I wonder how permanent WFH will work into all of this. Will it slow the development process or will it speed it up once its in full swing? Will it cause disruptive communication problems internally with the teams and lead to issues festering for far longer than previously? What about leadership people being permanent WFH and what will that lead to internally. I really am curious to see how that shapes up for the product.

I cannot imagine WFH is healthy for Blizzard given the requirements for custom hardware/software. The issues relating to California house prices is a definite issue, but at least that one would be alleviated by the possibilities offered by a permanent WFH system allowing developers to move to cheaper areas.

WHF is almost definitively detrimental to the game short-term though, the question is just one whether Blizzard has managed to adjust yet. Assuming they have been focusing on changing tracks ever since Covid began then they must have, but given the amount of governmental directives, conflicting wants from corporations vs healthcare, as well as sheer stubborness on adjusting the benefits on WFH could still be far off.

- - - Updated - - -

Content patches usually lasted 6-6.5 months, this has not much to do with Legion's schedule, that was the normal for most expansions. Legion just had an exact timing for all of its patches with 77 days between them, but the on average 6 months lifespan of content patches has been here at least since Mists of Pandaria. In previous expansions they released content patches even faster (in WotLK within 4 months, in Cataclysm within 4-5).

What Legion did that I still wonder why they didnt keep doing is opening raids in the X.X.5 patches instead of closer to when the patches launched. In hindsight I think that might have been the true secret to why Legion seemed to flow so well. Raids are a massive source of content, and bundling them with the major patches did lead to a massive chunk of content all at once, but on the flipside meant the game felt like it had longer droughts than usual.

[Hellspawn]

I think working from home is not a bigger deal for the WoW Team than for any other big AAA studio.
Maybe it is even a bit easier for them than for other studios that develop full games instead of "just" expansions.
They don't need any custom Hardware or console devkits.
Depending on how the WoW Editor works it may be even better suited for work from home than Unreal or Unity. (and if it doesn't, since they have full control over the source they could work on that)

[Nyel]

What Legion did that I still wonder why they didnt keep doing is opening raids in the X.X.5 patches instead of closer to when the patches launched. In hindsight I think that might have been the true secret to why Legion seemed to flow so well. Raids are a massive source of content, and bundling them with the major patches did lead to a massive chunk of content all at once, but on the flipside meant the game felt like it had longer droughts than usual.

I totally agree here and I think it made a lot of sense. Progressing in 7.0 and 7.1 towards Nighthold until it finally opened up in 7.1.5 just felt... good? The same in 7.2 and 7.2.5. It felt like you actively progressed towards the raid opening. I think it was clever to spread out content that way and as we know it worked pretty flawlessly in Legion. I have no idea why they didn't follow this in BfA.

[Sondrelk]

I totally agree here and I think it made a lot of sense. Progressing in 7.0 and 7.1 towards Nighthold until it finally opened up in 7.1.5 just felt... good? The same in 7.2 and 7.2.5. It felt like you actively progressed towards the raid opening. I think it was clever to spread out content that way and as we know it worked pretty flawlessly in Legion. I have no idea why they didn't follow this in BfA.

There was a downside in that you spent time anxious for the new raid that you knew was there while being unable to enter, but I think it was definitely offset by the games ability to properly build up to the raid.
7.1 was a pretty great patch narratively since the devs could have a patch worth of narrative in Suramar, and still keep the actual raid opening for later.

I think the reason might have been that it simply didnt work out to make content like that in BfA. I think Blizzard tried, but they seemed to fail when it actually came to making narratives that spread for that entire 3 month stretch needed between major patch and minor patch. Which truthfully Legion faceplanted hard at when it came to 7.2 and the leadup (or lack thereof) to Tomb of Sargeras, enough so that I don't even think I was there for the launch of that raid.

BfA mostly skipped waiting when it came to Uldir, which might be excused. But in 8.1 it seemed like Blizzard was hamstrung by having to make 2 equally epic raid questlines, in addition to the Warfront content.
I imagine that might have been why Blizzard decided to scrap the idea going forward. 8.2 definitely staggered the release, but I think the lack of a good reason from Blizzard on why we had to wait might have been why the release period was even shorter for 8.3, and why it was all but abandoned for Shadowlands so far.