Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

So...someone like Pyro has a better chance than me at getting in???

Depends. Will there be some mental stability test before joining council?

We'd sooner see Asmongold and Preach joining than someone like Pyro

Then this idea would be just stupid. Their voices are already loud, in general Blizzard's mistake is listening to loudest voices. What Asmon idea would improve whole game? Removing LFR? And Preach? Shift next expac even more towards raid logging?

Whole point of council should be to extract useful feedback from incoherent mess. It's not like devs can't read forums or discords. Pick people who catch your eye. Pick youtuber/streamers, why not, but base it on quality of their videos, not how loud/controversial/popular they are.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Depends. Will there be some mental stability test before joining council?

I wouldn't base it on any youtube personalities I suppose.

[EbaumsTipster]

Do we think we may get cross faction raiding in 9.2, or will it get kicked back to be an expansion feature in 10.0?

[Raetary]

Do we think we may get cross faction raiding in 9.2, or will it get kicked back to be an expansion feature in 10.0?

They'll probably want to reap the benefits of it being advertised as an expansion feature.

Though i certainly won't be complaining if they do decide to implement it in 9.2.

[Cosmic Janitor]

PTR for 9.2 will prob drop on whatever day the FF expansion or whatnot is coming. So end of the month, I iwould expect the announcement maybe next week sometime.

They already sacrificed their classic rererelease for that, I doubt they'd push out a PTR as well.

[huth]

They'll probably want to reap the benefits of it being advertised as an expansion feature.

Though i certainly won't be complaining if they do decide to implement it in 9.2.

It may need some expansion level system changes to actually pull off. 9.2 may just be to late to still fit it in, too, unless they've been planning to do it for a while now.

[Nyel]

Ion was directly asked if there'd be a 9.3 and then danced around question. I don't think 9.3 is gonna happen.

To be fair, he did exactly the same during the last interview from March. But him saying future again instead of 9.3 or whatever is a pretty telling statement. Nobody questions the existence of WoW‘s future, players question the existence of 9.3, which he didn’t answer at all in the interview.

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They already sacrificed their classic rererelease for that, I doubt they'd push out a PTR as well.

A, totally forgot season of mastery dropping soon. Damn, maybe I’m playing Classic once again.

[Sondrelk]

I've much broader problems with it, as you know, but nevermind the thematic point or what the Forsaken provide to their playerbase. Jsust on a basic storytelling level, it's a quick dopamine hit in exchange for nothing long-term. The transhumanist elements in Cataclysm where undeath is considered a positive and their situation with humanity is intractable due to mutually exclusive interests can lead into a variety of stories - be it the Forsaken co-opting the Cult of the Damned, situations like Zelling where undeath is offered to those who don't want to pass on yet, liberating left over Scourge, humans taking advantage of their leaderlessness to finally reclaim Lordaeron, etc. Each of these can in turn into something else and all are premised on the fact that undeath is distinct and separate from life to an incompatible degree. By comparison, undead and humans shaking hands under Calia because really our differences are skin deep gives us a feel good moment of a zombie dad hugging his older living daughter or what have you and then the two wandering around the city until the undead die off when the servers shut down, but it has no forward momentum, it closes stories off instead of opening them.

If you want a demonstration of this principle, take a look at the post-TBC Blood Elves. All their defining elements were surgically extracted for one feel good moment where the Sunwell goes back up and they learn the error of their ways. For the following ten plus years they've had nothing to do in the faction they're on and they have no forward momentum because without their addiction to magic forcing them to engage in iffy activities they have no proactive prompts driving them to do literally anything. They become passive and dull, much like the Forsaken would as a result of this change. Hell, take a look at even the post-WC3 Thrall Kalimdor Horde. The orcs resolved their issue with both the Legion and the humans who didn't let go of their WC2 conduct and they're in an isolated area with their main two allies being less defined versions of them. All well and good for the ending of an RTS, but an MMO has to actually wring some drama out of these groups and if they have all their problems settled they become dead weight.

It is a story that would be relevant for the broader forsaken race, and it is true that it is in a sense the "ending" that you cannot really go on telling afterwards.

I would however argue that it is a story that needs to be told. Yes, it is undoubtedly going to cause some issues later when the greater Forsaken storyline cannot draw from that we'll anymore, but on the other hand the story is actually starting to drag on long enough that it threatens credibility.

The Belves having little story after reclaiming the Sunwell is problematic for sure, but imagine what would have happened if they didn't do it. You would constantly question why that story never progresses forwards despite ample time and opportunity.

The solution to this should therefore be obvious. Give some sort of resolution that can itself be used for further storytelling.
Maybe some Forsaken leave and join their relatives in Stornwind because of schisms in Forsaken society. Maybe Stratholme or Andorhal becomes a unified city and the rest of the Forsaken leave, not wanting reconciliation.

I don't really want Forsaken to become definite peaceniks and all, but I do want some sort of forward momentum on this plotline. And really it is the kind of story that should be told once/if revamped Lordaeron becomes a topic once again.

[EbaumsTipster]

The Plaguelands have no lore reason to still exist so they will probably just be folded together into a new Lordaeron area. Tirisfal is the new updated "fucked up" zone while I doubt Blizzard will want to do HD versions of the plaguelands mushrooms and enemies.

That being said it will need a new plot that way, which is probably why they are bringing back the Scarlet Crusade as enemies to use instead of scourge and the COTD.

[Sondrelk]

The Plaguelands have no lore reason to still exist so they will probably just be folded together into a new Lordaeron area. Tirisfal is the new updated "fucked up" zone while I doubt Blizzard will want to do HD versions of the plaguelands mushrooms and enemies.

That being said it will need a new plot that way, which is probably why they are bringing back the Scarlet Crusade as enemies to use instead of scourge and the COTD.

If I were tasked with designing a revamped Plaguelands I would probably go for a version that is mostly cleansed, but still has a few pockets remaining so you can still make use of the relevant assets and scourge nostalgia.

[Ersula]

If they do 9.3 the expansion will be over 3 years. Even without 9.3 we'll go past 2 year mark easily before next expansion releases.

I just want people to recognize that 9.0 had a full raid tier & 6.0 did not. With 9.1, Shadowlands is already bigger than Warlords of Draenor. Blizzard has zero reason to do a 9.3 & covid has effectively been over since April. Endwalker was produced entirely during Covid & was only delayed 4 months, so why would a larger company have an even longer delay?

...What? But...6.2 lasted for over a whole year, and WoD only had 2 patches cause Blizzard had absolutely no clue what to do with it midway through its development. WoD and SL are entirely different beasts.

6.2 is an exception because its the only major patch to have THREE whole minor patches to follow it up. Id say 3 minor patches is analogous to a major patch.

"After Legion came out they actually commented about there supposed to be a Shattrath Raid tier in WoD" That idea got scrapped very early on, actually. Same with the original idea of entering Draenor to begin with.

So? Why does it matter at what point in the expansion it was dropped for time? You all have this misconception they design the expansion in a linear order & they don't.

Despite its faults, SL's still a very complete expansion plot-wise.

lol no. We still haven't gotten very basic exposition on say, htf souls work, what "knowledge" the jailer wanted, why the Arbiter fell asleep, All Liliana Voss's cut dialog... And if the plot is complete, which I agree with, 9.1 is the "act 2" of the expansion, why is everyone saying we need at least 2 more major patches?

Premonition: Ion will say 9.2 is the “last major content patch” for Shadowlands and shitposters will start saying that 9.3 can still happen because maybe it’s not major content!!!!1111 10.0 in 2024!!!!

Absolutely. I think it's too much to ask 9.2 goes on the PTR before the end of the year. And they still wanted to put the expansion reveal in after 9.2 so the reveal doesn't spoil the end of Shadowlands: I think we'll get a "What's next" Video about 9.2 before the end of the year, 9.2 ptr early 2022, release in March/April & 10.0 Alpha immediately after that.

[EbaumsTipster]

If I were tasked with designing a revamped Plaguelands I would probably go for a version that is mostly cleansed, but still has a few pockets remaining so you can still make use of the relevant assets and scourge nostalgia.

Yeah, I think the scourge will still remain on Azeroth and will likely be used as "enemies that are around forever" (don't think that SL will end with them being removed or pacified).

Centaurs though... hope they bring them back.

[Draedarr]

It's almost insane to think that instead of releasing the next expansion in 2022, they will make it only in 2023

[Sondrelk]

It's almost insane to think that instead of releasing the next expansion in 2022, they will make it only in 2023

Or 9.3 is cancelled, 9.2 releases early next year, and we are just in time for 10.0 releasing around November-ish the same year.

[rainhard]

If I were tasked with designing a revamped Plaguelands I would probably go for a version that is mostly cleansed, but still has a few pockets remaining so you can still make use of the relevant assets and scourge nostalgia.

To keep it's identity maybe the fungi could remain there but in a "cleansed" state or maybe dead leftovers so that it doesn't turn into a generic forest.

[Ersula]

Or 9.3 is cancelled, 9.2 releases early next year, and we are just in time for 10.0 releasing around November-ish the same year.

Yes, but the "The Sepulcher" was supposed to be 9.3.

I have no doubt "Battle For Ardenweald" was supposed to be 9.1 & Sanctum of Dominion 9.2: And they decided to abandon that patch when covid hit for the sake of time. This is what they do to ensure a 2 year expansion rotation.

[Nyel]

I just want people to recognize that 9.0 had a full raid tier & 6.0 did not.

6.0 had Highmaul? Or what's the difference between Highmaul and Castle Nathria? The amount of bosses?

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Or 9.3 is cancelled, 9.2 releases early next year, and we are just in time for 10.0 releasing around November-ish the same year.

Preach! And continue doing so, maybe it works.

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Yes, but the "The Sepulcher" was supposed to be 9.3.

I have no doubt "Battle For Ardenweald" was supposed to be 9.1 & Sanctum of Dominion 9.2: And they decided to abandon that patch when covid hit for the sake of time. This is what they do to ensure a 2 year expansion rotation.

This is a lot of guessing.

[EbaumsTipster]

Yes, but the "The Sepulcher" was supposed to be 9.3.

I have no doubt "Battle For Ardenweald" was supposed to be 9.1 & Sanctum of Dominion 9.2: And they decided to abandon that patch when covid hit for the sake of time. This is what they do to ensure a 2 year expansion rotation.

Considering that Sanctum already had its raid models in the files at launch I doubt an Ardenweald patch or raid was ever in the cards. People got confused by "Ardenweald Raid" in the files but it referred to the raid weapons they get from Nathria.

[Ersula]

6.0 had Highmaul? Or what's the difference between Highmaul and Castle Nathria? The amount of bosses?

Yeah & Blackrock Foundry & it dropped the same level range of loot: I explained this so many times: Blackrock Foundry & Nighthold were not full tiers, they were just PART 2 of the first tier. Not only was Nathria a full tier, it was much bigger than Uldir, so we've been getting much bigger raids in fewer patches. That's really relevant to this delay conversation.

This is a lot of guessing.

They've abandon content a lot in the past for worse reasons. It's not guessing, it's just observing their priorities: releasing Expansions is more important than having Patches

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

It is pretty clear that if the structure originally was 3 patches, the first patch was supposed to be the Infinity War moment where Thanos got some of the gems, then second patch is when Thanos got all the gems and then third patch is the Snap.