Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

The timeline is already shot. You can't fix it anymore unless things happen to go smoother than expected.



No, that's really just you trying to predict things based on absolutely nothing and pouncing on random details as "evidence". We don't even know how big the patch actually is.

The timeline yes, but not what you do with that time. Concepts that where planned for 9.3 could easily be brought into 9.2 or vice versa and most of the work that would have been needed to realize a potential 9.3 just shifts towards the team that’s working on 9.2 or already heavily involved on the creation of 10.0. Pretty easy to do because 9.3 at this point is barely more than a concept. 9.3 PTR, if it exists, is 12 months away. And by concept I mean they have already done this before the launch of Shadowlands. So that’s not even work that’s been wasted, when it never was more than an idea on paper.

And we know what usual .1 patches contain. We know what 9.1 contains. We know who is part of 9.1 already (most of the Jailer’s allies, Kel’thuzad and the lore heavyweight Sylvanas) - we’re basically just missing Arthas and Anduin at this point to finish the Jailer storyline and both of them are part of the final Jailer story (e.g. the final raid), one way or another.

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Uhm, sure? I’ve already exclaimed why ya invading the Maw doesn’t mean shit

9.1: We’re invading the Maw, we’re heavily abusing the Oribos port stone, we most likely lose, the Jailer uses the port stone...

9.2: The Jailer teleports to the other Shadowlands’ zones and eventually Oribos, in Oribos he kills the Arbiter (or whatever) and teleports to Azeroth, we fight him in Azeroth on top of Icecrown, Anduin becomes the new Arbiter (or Arthas? Who knows) - end of the Jailer storyline.

Plots like Garrosh in the Shadowlands? Interesting, but who cares.

[Dracullus]

Read again. I was talking about release months, which happened to be always November in the last years.

I just checked it, all but four AC main titles (8) released in early / mid November. The other four were released mid / end of October. All of them in Q3 each year. 2016 and 2019 had no mainline releases because Ubisoft was reevaluating and eventually completely revamping the gameplay (Origins, 2017) and Valhalla was more ambitious than the previous projects (2020). Annual releases where never what I was referring to, it was about the release frame and it’s always been Q3, either October or November. Granted, I said it was only November for AC, but it’s mostly November and not only.

At this point I don't know what the hell is your point. For some reason you assumed expansions are planned to release every 2 years every time. Then you compare WoW to annual AC. After I point out not every year had AC, for some reason it's not important, important thing is every AC releases in Q4. But not every WoW expansion releases in same quarter, last 10 years we had December-September-November-August-August-November releases. Looks like planning to release expac every two years doesn't work well, huh? But in your world "moving" release from August to November is possible, but moving date from November to let's say April is impossible, cause year will change from 22 to 23.

Do you see what mess are your arguments? You know why? BECAUSE NO ONE BESIDE BLIZZ HAS DAMN CLUE. Trying to solve this puzzle with 10 unknowns always create chaos. Sorry for caps.

[prunusek]

At this point I don't know what the hell is your point. For some reason you assumed expansions are planned to release every 2 years every time. Then you compare WoW to annual AC. After I point out not every year had AC, for some reason it's not important, important thing is every AC releases in Q4. But not every WoW expansion releases in same quarter, last 10 years we had December-September-November-August-August-November releases. Looks like planning to release expac every two years doesn't work well, huh? But in your world "moving" release from August to November is possible, but moving date from November to let's say April is impossible, cause year will change from 22 to 23.

Do you see what mess are your arguments? You know why? BECAUSE NO ONE BESIDE BLIZZ HAS DAMN CLUE. Trying to solve this puzzle with 10 unknowns always create chaos. Sorry for caps.

Did you forget about The Burning Crusade release date ?

January 16 2007

TBC was delayed because it wasn't ready to launch in Q4 of 2006. I know it was long time ago and Blizzard wasn't at that time under Acti/Blizz umbrella but there it is still a precedent to launch expansion in Q1 2023.

[Wangming]

Uhm, sure? I’ve already exclaimed why ya invading the Maw doesn’t mean shit

Doesn't it? For you maybe, but that's not how a narrative works.

We are at the enemy's dorstep what are we going to do? I know, let's explore the cosmological significance of the place we are in. Let's hunt for secrets and shit.

Neat idea, agreed, but it is a bit too late for that.

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9.1: We’re invading the Maw, we’re heavily abusing the Oribos port stone, we most likely lose, the Jailer uses the port stone...

9.2: The Jailer teleports to the other Shadowlands’ zones and eventually Oribos, in Oribos he kills the Arbiter (or whatever) and teleports to Azeroth, we fight him in Azeroth on top of Icecrown, Anduin becomes the new Arbiter (or Arthas? Who knows) - end of the Jailer storyline.

Plots like Garrosh in the Shadowlands? Interesting, but who cares.

Yeah. He gets it. The fluff will be explored in comics, novels short videos and lorebooks. From a narrative standpoint we are prepairing for the final push. Blizzard won't break this flow to explore side stories.

[Edward Wu]

10.0 Expansion Concept:
World of Warcraft: Echoes of Outland



Story: We return to Azeroth only to witness it split open and destroyed as the slumbering titan soul has awakened prematurely due to some dark power, and killed the planet as a result. Opening acts of the expansion is Horde & Alliance organizing a mass exodus away from Azeroth as we hastily open portals the most nearby place we know: Outland. Outland has become more ravaged than ever, with the Mag'har Clans and native Draenei trying to pick up the pieces. As the greatest of Azeroth's heroes and adventurers flood into a broken world, a plan is erected to restore the planet to its former glory, something if successful, could be used on Azeroth as well.
Expansion is all about restoring and renewing portions of Outland all the while finding how united we can be as children of Azeroth and not members of political factions, as it starts out as a sci-fi expansion with broken bits of the planet in space and over-time we return it to a real planet with connected lands and proper oceans. The Ogre clans return, the Orcs resettle and create a mighty power base. The Alliance struggles in an alien world but ekes out a living. The Lightbound invade the planet and the Horde & Alliance defend it from them.

Class: Blademaster
Races: Ogres, Broken
Factions are united and everyone can play with each other, but separate PvP factions exist to simulate the classic HvA feel still.

[Nagawithlegs]

When did people on here come around to the idea that the expansion is smaller? I’ve thought it was planned to be that pretty early when the Maw was built up as a finale and then its armor was in launch.

I think it’ll be smaller as well with 10.0 being announced at the same time is confirmed to be smaller. If it’s a revamp then people will be happier it’s smaller so they can get to the next expansion.

As for the theme of 9.2 I think it’ll be the Gardens of Life/Life Realm with split up areas like Argus.

Shadowlands feels like a much more polished WoD that is small, but has an actually important plot and was designed to be small from the get go. Not expecting any more afterlives nor do I think they were planned.

[AngerFork]

9.1: We’re invading the Maw, we’re heavily abusing the Oribos port stone, we most likely lose, the Jailer uses the port stone...

9.2: The Jailer teleports to the other Shadowlands’ zones and eventually Oribos, in Oribos he kills the Arbiter (or whatever) and teleports to Azeroth, we fight him in Azeroth on top of Icecrown, Anduin becomes the new Arbiter (or Arthas? Who knows) - end of the Jailer storyline.

Plots like Garrosh in the Shadowlands? Interesting, but who cares.

While I disagreed with you when you said BfA was going to not have an 8.3, I'm absolutely with you in thinking that 9.3 won't be a thing for Shadowlands. It was likely planned out, but with COVID and the push for an expansion every 2 years, it seems likely that Blizz may try to fit what they can into 9.1 & 9.2 and push for 10.0 sooner rather than later. Most of the main story threads as you point out can be resolved pretty quickly in a patch 9.2, if they haven't already been resolved in 9.1. The stuff to get us to 9.2 (like the 3 keys remaining) are simple enough to shoehorn into a few covenant quest chains or the like. Extra hanging threads like Tyrande could easily be moved to future expansions if we don't deal with them against Sylvanas. Blizz has thrived in recent years when they've left themselves open threads in an expansion to explore in later content...provided they do actually ever explore them & don't just try to hand-wave them away.

Plus, it's not like Blizz hasn't openly cancelled planned content before for a variety of reasons. Dance Studio, Path of the Titans, Abyssal Maw, Shattrath Raid, Farah'lon, & Thal'dranath all come to mind.

While some might complain should we not get a 9.3, it's not like people wouldn't understand what happened with the pandemic & all. Most games got significantly delayed, or had parts of them moved to later content/DLC during COVID.

[Nagawithlegs]

While some might complain should we not get a 9.3, it's not like people wouldn't understand what happened with the pandemic & all. Most games got significantly delayed, or had parts of them moved to later content/DLC during COVID.

And if 10.0 has stuff like faction coop, zone revamps, housing, new cities etc etc... I REALLY don’t think people will care if there is a 9.3 or not.

[ro9ue]

I'd rather see them combine whatever they originally had planned for 9.2 and 9.3 into 1 patch and move onto 10.0. Not a fan of this expansion personally.

[razorpax]

The timeline is already shot. You can't fix it anymore unless things happen to go smoother than expected.



No, that's really just you trying to predict things based on absolutely nothing and pouncing on random details as "evidence". We don't even know how big the patch actually is.

It’s important to note that 7.1 & 8.1 contained big system changes that 9.1 doesn’t. When you don’t have to fix the base systems every patch you can get a lot done.

If 9.2 isn’t about the jailer then we get 9.3 and based on what we know
We attack torghast and gain a foothold in the maw while Zoval LEAVES TO THE NEW ZONE we are essentially just chasing him and the only real things we gain are the primus being freed and sylvanas Providing us a way to save Anduin

[TheFirstOnes]

The timeline yes, but not what you do with that time. Concepts that where planned for 9.3 could easily be brought into 9.2 or vice versa and most of the work that would have been needed to realize a potential 9.3 just shifts towards the team that’s working on 9.2 or already heavily involved on the creation of 10.0. Pretty easy to do because 9.3 at this point is barely more than a concept. 9.3 PTR, if it exists, is 12 months away. And by concept I mean they have already done this before the launch of Shadowlands. So that’s not even work that’s been wasted, when it never was more than an idea on paper.

And we know what usual .1 patches contain. We know what 9.1 contains. We know who is part of 9.1 already (most of the Jailer’s allies, Kel’thuzad and the lore heavyweight Sylvanas) - we’re basically just missing Arthas and Anduin at this point to finish the Jailer storyline and both of them are part of the final Jailer story (e.g. the final raid), one way or another.

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9.1: We’re invading the Maw, we’re heavily abusing the Oribos port stone, we most likely lose, the Jailer uses the port stone...

9.2: The Jailer teleports to the other Shadowlands’ zones and eventually Oribos, in Oribos he kills the Arbiter (or whatever) and teleports to Azeroth, we fight him in Azeroth on top of Icecrown, Anduin becomes the new Arbiter (or Arthas? Who knows) - end of the Jailer storyline.

Plots like Garrosh in the Shadowlands? Interesting, but who cares.

I've already talked about what 9.2 could be, however...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

And if 10.0 has stuff like faction coop, zone revamps, housing, new cities etc etc... I REALLY don’t think people will care if there is a 9.3 or not.

How about no, they should keep the expansion going and yes people will complain about a lack of 9.3.

[AngerFork]

And if 10.0 has stuff like faction coop, zone revamps, housing, new cities etc etc... I REALLY don’t think people will care if there is a 9.3 or not.

Totally, especially if there is a game changer like faction coop or zone revamps. Really, the level of content that comes with 10.0 will speak for itself, 9.3 or not. One only need look at how the last patch of WoD was received compared to what the overall opinions of WoW were once Legion came out to see how crucial a last patch vs. an expansion launch can be.

How about no, they should keep the expansion going and yes people will complain about a lack of 9.3.

People will also complain if there is a 9.3 and it isn't up to par, that's just the nature of the player base. They will complain if the factions merge, they will complain if the factions don't merge. The question shouldn't necessarily be if people will complain, but rather what is better for the game itself? If 9.3 isn't going to have a solid amount of content and 10.0 will be delayed until 2023 because of it, it might just be better for the game to forego 9.3 and make sure 10.0 is out in a reasonable amount of time with good content behind it.

[Nyel]

Did you forget about The Burning Crusade release date ?

January 16 2007

TBC was delayed because it wasn't ready to launch in Q4 of 2006. I know it was long time ago and Blizzard wasn't at that time under Acti/Blizz umbrella but there it is still a precedent to launch expansion in Q1 2023.

TBC was the first expansion and that was 14 years back. You cannot compare that to now. Management changed, Activision is part of Blizzard now and what the last expansions have showed is that huge initial sales are what drives WoWs revenue, not the sub numbers.

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And if 10.0 has stuff like faction coop, zone revamps, housing, new cities etc etc... I REALLY don’t think people will care if there is a 9.3 or not.

Exactly. The expansion after Shadowlands just has to be massive and people will forgive many things they did (or didn’t do) with Shadowlands and even BfA. They need another Legion-like expansion with 10.0 and the sooner they wrap up Shadowlands, the more time and workforce they have to make 10.0 as great and rich of new features and content as Legion.

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While I disagreed with you when you said BfA was going to not have an 8.3, I'm absolutely with you in thinking that 9.3 won't be a thing for Shadowlands. It was likely planned out, but with COVID and the push for an expansion every 2 years, it seems likely that Blizz may try to fit what they can into 9.1 & 9.2 and push for 10.0 sooner rather than later. Most of the main story threads as you point out can be resolved pretty quickly in a patch 9.2, if they haven't already been resolved in 9.1. The stuff to get us to 9.2 (like the 3 keys remaining) are simple enough to shoehorn into a few covenant quest chains or the like. Extra hanging threads like Tyrande could easily be moved to future expansions if we don't deal with them against Sylvanas. Blizz has thrived in recent years when they've left themselves open threads in an expansion to explore in later content...provided they do actually ever explore them & don't just try to hand-wave them away.

Plus, it's not like Blizz hasn't openly cancelled planned content before for a variety of reasons. Dance Studio, Path of the Titans, Abyssal Maw, Shattrath Raid, Farah'lon, & Thal'dranath all come to mind.

While some might complain should we not get a 9.3, it's not like people wouldn't understand what happened with the pandemic & all. Most games got significantly delayed, or had parts of them moved to later content/DLC during COVID.

Not having 8.3 during BfA was mostly born on my hatred of BfA (quite silly in retrospective) and it’s very poor reception (I find it amazing how many people deem BfA the worst expansion now) overall - not getting 9.3 isn’t based on similar feelings, I enjoyed Shadowlands way more than BfA, but the time for 9.3 in Shadowlands is just not there unless they significantly delay 10.0 which - I repeat myself - makes no sense. And even the story can easily be resolved in 9.2. We don’t need something in between, having 9.1 with Maw and SoD basically is the first half of wrapping up the Jailer storyline, the second half will be in 9.2.

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I'd rather see them combine whatever they originally had planned for 9.2 and 9.3 into 1 patch and move onto 10.0. Not a fan of this expansion personally.

That’s what I‘m saying. 9.3 is a concept on paper as of now, they haven’t started working on it. So it’s even easier to move the important stuff from 9.3 to 9.2 and make 9.2 a huge patch and just move on after that to completely focus on what’s important right now: making 10.0 as big and good as possible and having it release - the latest - on time.

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I've already talked about what 9.2 could be, however...

You have. I agreed with you and said that it’s very interesting for lore fanatics, but eventually unnecessary for the Shadowlands storyline to be wrapped up and the final outcome. I totally understand your point, I just don’t deem it a realistic possibility at the moment. I still like your ideas for 9.2‘s lore.
________

Shadowlands is just dead at the moment. And it’ll be even more dead in 2-3 months when 9.1 gets released. The amount of players coming back to Shadowlands with new content patches isn’t going to spike again, it will be less and less. What brings people back is a new expansion and not even more content patches during an expansion that feels like it’s been dragging on for too long - even before it released its first chunk of new content.

[ExiHext]

9.1: We’re invading the Maw, we’re heavily abusing the Oribos port stone, we most likely lose, the Jailer uses the port stone...

9.2: The Jailer teleports to the other Shadowlands’ zones and eventually Oribos, in Oribos he kills the Arbiter (or whatever) and teleports to Azeroth, we fight him in Azeroth on top of Icecrown, Anduin becomes the new Arbiter (or Arthas? Who knows) - end of the Jailer storyline.

Plots like Garrosh in the Shadowlands? Interesting, but who cares.

While I agree there is quite a chance for no 9.2, THIS is so not happening.

Also: if only some smart person would find a way to convert the constant back and forth in this thread if there is a 9.2 or not into electricity, humanity's energy problems were solved.

[Dracullus]

While I agree there is quite a chance for no 9.2, THIS is so not happening.

Also: if only some smart person would find a way to convert the constant back and forth in this thread if there is a 9.2 or not into electricity, humanity's energy problems were solved.

People that think story indicate anything are even more funny, it would be easy to fill two patches with Anduin, Arthas/Uther, Nathrezim, Arbiter, Jailer; but it would be just as easy to cut/streamline stuff and make Anduin "Aggramar" of this expac.

At least we have some warming up before PTR. I hoped it will be this week, but then someone told me next week is FFXIV patch.. they will do it again, won't they?

[ExiHext]

At least we have some warming up before PTR. I hoped it will be this week, but then someone told me next week is FFXIV patch.. they will do it again, won't they?

Isn't 9.1 ptr already confirmed for next week?
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ination/922677

[Lady Atia]

Isn't 9.1 ptr already confirmed for next week?
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ination/922677

Depends on your definition of "in about 2 weeks". If we are lucky we could get it anytime this week to (mostly) next week.

[username993720]

10.0 Expansion Concept:
World of Warcraft: Echoes of Outland

Story: We return to Azeroth only to witness it split open and destroyed as the slumbering titan soul has awakened prematurely due to some dark power, and killed the planet as a result. Opening acts of the expansion is Horde & Alliance organizing a mass exodus away from Azeroth as we hastily open portals the most nearby place we know: Outland. Outland has become more ravaged than ever, with the Mag'har Clans and native Draenei trying to pick up the pieces. As the greatest of Azeroth's heroes and adventurers flood into a broken world, a plan is erected to restore the planet to its former glory, something if successful, could be used on Azeroth as well.
Expansion is all about restoring and renewing portions of Outland all the while finding how united we can be as children of Azeroth and not members of political factions, as it starts out as a sci-fi expansion with broken bits of the planet in space and over-time we return it to a real planet with connected lands and proper oceans. The Ogre clans return, the Orcs resettle and create a mighty power base. The Alliance struggles in an alien world but ekes out a living. The Lightbound invade the planet and the Horde & Alliance defend it from them.

Class: Blademaster
Races: Ogres, Broken
Factions are united and everyone can play with each other, but separate PvP factions exist to simulate the classic HvA feel still.

Unlikely, as we've been to that planet twice, already.
Once in the Burning Crusade, and the second time in Warlords of Draenor.
There are things missing, though:
The Ogre continent.
Farahlon.
Some would say Zangar Sea (fully).
Outland's portals and where they led to.

[Edward Wu]

Unlikely, as we've been to that planet twice, already.
Once in the Burning Crusade, and the second time in Warlords of Draenor.
There are things missing, though:
The Ogre continent.
Farahlon.
Some would say Zangar Sea (fully).
Outland's portals and where they led to.

It's not about recreating Draenor, though. For example Frostfire Ridge is gone and never coming back.

It'd be about rejuvenating Outland and what it is. One of the cool things about that concept is that there could be some genuine trailblazing happening. Brand new zones, maybe founded by the community itself? Name, look, and atmosphere kind of like a region-wide AQ event to shape an entire zone? I think it'd be massively cool.