Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lahis]

Mantid are Aqir.

Mantid, Nerubians and Qiraji are not Aqir. They're descendants of Aqir, but are not the same race anymore.

[Revamp Man]

As for this, that already sort of happened—he tried to deal with it diplomatically. Given he was capable of persuading Xe'ra to let her live, I imagine Yrel would be a relative cakewalk.

Eh Yrel will simply see him as friendly with the enemy
After all he's fighting alongside orcs who slaughtered her people BUT Velen might have some sway if she hasn't gone full light nazi

[Kellorion]

Not only do i want dracthyr to either have all races visage or at the very least a proto nelf/highborne/troll look like Warbringer Azshara had
But nelfs/nightborne and zanda and Ds trolls should get a few ear options like those kind

[Izalla]

They claim to have the menethil heir and want to overthrow anduin using greymane as a figurehead that they will overthrow. Turalyon is a good candidate for that now as they can use his elf wife as a thing against him.

My theory is they are led by a black dragon and we will finally get the Reveal of Talia being the heir and Calia being her mother and the lost wife of Bolvar because IT IS VERY OBVIOUS.

Patch content to reintroduce Anduin as a badass instead of an emo

I was so certain of this. It was just so blatant. And then they put them all together in a room in Oribos and no one reacted whatsoever and now I'm just dumbfounded because why did they set this up so that a toddler could put it together and then it meant nothing?

Then again I was also certain it would matter that Silithus got absolutely flooded with magical and rejuvenating titan blood considering WHAT IS UNDERNEATH IT but that didn't matter either so I know about as much as Jon Snow.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I wouldn't be so confident about a lot of these speculations. You never know what will end up happening.

[Izalla]

I wouldn't be so confident about a lot of these speculations. You never know what will end up happening.

At this point I'm confident I will be wrong about anything I expect to happen

[Hitei]

Mantid, Nerubians and Qiraji are not Aqir. They're descendants of Aqir, but are not the same race anymore.

Completely missing the point of that post aside, this isn't quite correct. They are all just different subraces of aqir.

Chronicle specifically says:

...one enclave of aqir gathered at the southern edge of Kalimdor. Below the roots of the great kypari trees, they established a new empire. These insectoids, known thereafter as the mantid, saw no purpose in continuing a battle they knew they were not strong enough to win.

Which is to say that the difference between an aqir and a mantid is just that the far southern aqir group changed their name when they founded Manti'vess. The same individuals were aqir one day and then 'mantid' the next day. The same is true of the other groups, btw (from the very first round of ask CDev):

Similarly, the aqir that travelled south ransacked and overthrew a titan research station near Uldum, renaming themselves the qiraji and calling their new home Ahn'Qiraj.

The titan facility was taken and renamed AQ during the war with the trolls that split the Aqir empire. It's not that the qiraji evolved from the aqir, it's that the aqir near Uldum started calling themselves qiraji.

It's an arbitrary line. In the passage describing their mutations and new kingdoms, Chroncile even calls them 'three distinct cultures' that arose from the old empire. Considering that each subrace's physiology has larger differences internally (kuchong vs mantid drone) than there are differences between them and the ancient aqir (see: mantid empress, nerubian vizier, aqir shadowcasters; kuchong and aqir goliath)--it seems silly to even pretend there is a line being crossed in the first place.

[Le Conceptuel]

Considering Yrel's commander may be a resurrected or alternate Xe'ra, who could know about her alternate death that Turalyon let happen, it may not be such a clean encounter.

The BFA scenario makes it vague who the Lightnother is but it absolutely could be Xe'ra.

Ah, if Xe'ra is bitter, I suppose that would change some things. In the particular instance that Xe'ra has it out for Turalyon, that could change things. I definitely maintain that in any other circumstance, however, Turalyon is probably not going to end up at odds with Yrel. I do think it would also be a waste of an interesting character dynamic to have the zealous-but-tame Turalyon representing a pragmatic counterpart to the more militant and fanatical Yrel in the same faction.

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Eh Yrel will simply see him as friendly with the enemy
After all he's fighting alongside orcs who slaughtered her people BUT Velen might have some sway if she hasn't gone full light nazi

I wouldn't be so sure—for one, she's willing to collaborate with Orcs in general. She's fanatical, but not racist. Her imperialism is more in the way of subjugating their culture, but she has nothing against the race in itself. Furthermore, if Turalyon shows some hostility to the Horde, that would probably assuage any fears along those lines entirely.

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I was so certain of this. It was just so blatant. And then they put them all together in a room in Oribos and no one reacted whatsoever and now I'm just dumbfounded because why did they set this up so that a toddler could put it together and then it meant nothing?

Then again I was also certain it would matter that Silithus got absolutely flooded with magical and rejuvenating titan blood considering WHAT IS UNDERNEATH IT but that didn't matter either so I know about as much as Jon Snow.

It's rather awkward how they executed that, for sure—or didn't for that matter. It's fairly daft of them to overlook both of those things. I would be positively floored if they did that after chucking all those people in a room together and not resolving it.

Also, are we ever going to resolve the sword for good? That seems to be hanging over us like a pall and nobody's done anything about it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Probably assuming about DF's plot but my guess at least Alliance side, maybe some areas that weren't Blue before are going to be Blue now as Turalyon might want more land and well that can always translate to new content in the future if need be. As I said, I think its all heading up to a royal crisis of sorts. Anduin gets over his(dumb doubt nonsense). At the same time the Light arrives(This is all speculation so bear with me) to sorta spread their whole doctrine and what not. Both factions have different reactions.


Alliance will be more welcoming as Turalyon will probably open the gates for the naaru and the Light zealots in and it may get awkward and uncomfortable with how "Forceful" the zealots are. This ends up in Conflict because Anduin will be ready to come back home and be King again, people are happy and such. The Light's zealots will be sorta meeting with Turalyon or wherevfer on Azeroth and well based on Xe'ra and the past, the Light is going to look bad(Because we really needed this development -_-) and well Paladins may feel awkward after all of this.

Anyways when the time comes Turalyon(and that one Holy Dreadlord dude who is probably but could be wrong, misleading Turalyon and even influence him). Anduin attempts to take the throne rightfully(He is Varian's heir, no bits about it). Turalyon doesn't back down and refuses, its lazy and just Blue Horde but I am not gonna act shocked if it happens :/

Also, are we ever going to resolve the sword for good? That seems to be hanging over us like a pall and nobody's done anything about it.

I assume eventually and I could of sworn one of the creatives did mention the sword during SL but that might of been Creepy Afriasbi so thats out. Probably nothing for awhile.

[Revamp Man]

I was so certain of this. It was just so blatant. And then they put them all together in a room in Oribos and no one reacted whatsoever and now I'm just dumbfounded because why did they set this up so that a toddler could put it together and then it meant nothing?

Then again I was also certain it would matter that Silithus got absolutely flooded with magical and rejuvenating titan blood considering WHAT IS UNDERNEATH IT but that didn't matter either so I know about as much as Jon Snow.

Bolivar doesn't look the same and we don't know what getting revived with the light did to Calia in terms of her memory

Plus she used a fake name while married so prepare for the totally not obvious reveal

[Le Conceptuel]

Completely missing the point of that post aside, this isn't quite correct. They are all just different subraces of aqir.

Actually, I'd say not to get too carried away with the semantics there—this seems less relevant if you take Occam's Razor to the fact that there the Aqir of Ny'Alotha are specified as "Aqir", something which we've not seen applied to any of the other Aqiri-derivative races. Add to that how these races are specifically referred to as Silithid and Nerubians during the Zek'voz battle, it is implicitly suggested that these are, in fact, recognized as specific races that are distinct from the Aqir as they originally were.

"Now, Le Conceptuel," you may say, "what does that say about anything? It could simply be that those Aqir are simply the original culture of Aqir who have not taken on the cultural monikers of the Mantid, Nerubians, etc." That's a fair point, but I'll further counter that these all consist a single set of Aqir, with no races identical to the Nerubians, Mantid, and Qiraji as would be suggested by those races being simply Aqir under a different culture.

This one could simply be a case of model reuse, and likely is, but I would also add that we even see the evolutionary predecessors to different races among the Nerubians, Mantid, and Qiraji—a common link, for instance, between the Nerubian Seers and Mantid Empresses can be seen in one specimen, and another is derivative of the common Nerubians when we don't see an equivalent so close among the Qiraji or Mantid. This is something of a stretch, but I figure it could also add to that.

Another counter I could think of is that the Nerubians and Qiraji both appear in a fight in Uldir, which is admittedly a good point—why would the Titans have specimens of those two races if they didn't exist before the supposed split? Well, the issue with that is that they are also referred to explicitly as Nerubians and Qiraji, so that means that the Titan Watchers there must've been at least aware of the Nerubian and Qiraji cultures, consequently meaning that it is also possible they somehow procured that information after these races spread out. There would've been a good period of time in which observation could take place on a singular landmass and procurement would not be too difficult. It also raises the question of what the real name of the Aqir under N'Zoth are, as if they were meant to just be a single strain, they would likely have a name of their own. On top of that, I would also add that Blizzard is not exactly ever keen to rely on semantics to clarify something—if the Aqir had multiple subraces before the split, it would've been communicated very openly instead of left to this matter of interpretation.

In summation, Occam's Razor states that the Aqir are likely their own race simply because the Aqir under N'Zoth are never specified as anything but Aqir and, conversely, the Nerubians, Qiraji and Mantid are never called Aqir outside of a particular period of time in Chronicles which is an interim period which would've taken place before any divergent evolution could occur.

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Probably assuming about DF's plot but my guess at least Alliance side, maybe some areas that weren't Blue before are going to be Blue now as Turalyon might want more land and well that can always translate to new content in the future if need be. As I said, I think its all heading up to a royal crisis of sorts. Anduin gets over his(dumb doubt nonsense). At the same time the Light arrives(This is all speculation so bear with me) to sorta spread their whole doctrine and what not. Both factions have different reactions.


Alliance will be more welcoming as Turalyon will probably open the gates for the naaru and the Light zealots in and it may get awkward and uncomfortable with how "Forceful" the zealots are. This ends up in Conflict because Anduin will be ready to come back home and be King again, people are happy and such. The Light's zealots will be sorta meeting with Turalyon or wherevfer on Azeroth and well based on Xe'ra and the past, the Light is going to look bad(Because we really needed this development -_-) and well Paladins may feel awkward after all of this.

Anyways when the time comes Turalyon(and that one Holy Dreadlord dude who is probably but could be wrong, misleading Turalyon and even influence him). Anduin attempts to take the throne rightfully(He is Varian's heir, no bits about it). Turalyon doesn't back down and refuses, its lazy and just Blue Horde but I am not gonna act shocked if it happens :/

I'm honestly fairly certain that's not what's going to happen—there seems to be a buildup more to a schism in the Light, as odd as that is, and it seems like the Light's not strictly been villain batted. It seems more like it's building up to the idea that some of the Light's followers have a different interpretation of its singular will.

I'd also say that this is certainly not going to happen this expansion—I expect Yrel to show up later on, but in the expansion following Dragonflight. If there's an internal threat in the Alliance, it'll probably be the Scarlet Brotherhood because they have a thematic link to the expansion in their implicitly-Draconic heir.

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Bolivar doesn't look the same and we don't know what getting revived with the light did to Calia in terms of her memory

Plus she used a fake name while married so prepare for the totally not obvious reveal

I don't know—voices stay the same, and Calia was certainly recognizable face-wise. I doubt somebody could bare somebody's child and then not be recognized due to a pale complexion and a different name.

[Revamp Man]

]



I don't know—voices stay the same, and Calia was certainly recognizable face-wise. I doubt somebody could bare somebody's child and then not be recognized due to a pale complexion and a different name.

It's also been a decade and he's been mentally screwed with for a while believing for about 20 years that his wife was a lowborne nobody who died

This is also a good point to counter the scarlet crusade who's using a boy as their supposed heir while we know it was a girl

Now take the following into account
Calia
1. Married a soldier (can't remember if she mentioned his looks)
2. Has a daughter
3. Believes them to be lost in a scourge attack
4. Disguised herself as a commoner during her life before the attack

Bolvar
1. Married a woman he believed to be a commoner
2. Was a soldier at the Time
3. Believes his wife to have been lost in a scourge attack

Now people say "you never know what blizzard is going to pull" but we've seen leaks made that talked about going to the dragon isles and their being a power struggle in the black flight, anduin being rescued by his daddies, most of BfA, the true identity of the runecarver, the thing that broke the arbiter, zovall being the original arbiter, and many more but the point remains the speculation community has more instances of guessing the story that blizz tries to sell as a twist

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Assuming soldiers made up 75% of the male population and 75% of them were within his age and married then you figure of that 57.75% of soldiers half of them have a daughter you've got a highball of 28.83% of soldiers that would have families matching his before the scourge in that entire kingdom.

[tristannarutofan]

I was so certain of this. It was just so blatant. And then they put them all together in a room in Oribos and no one reacted whatsoever and now I'm just dumbfounded because why did they set this up so that a toddler could put it together and then it meant nothing?

Then again I was also certain it would matter that Silithus got absolutely flooded with magical and rejuvenating titan blood considering WHAT IS UNDERNEATH IT but that didn't matter either so I know about as much as Jon Snow.

I meam, there is no proof its true and also the story isnt over so its not to late.

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It's also been a decade and he's been mentally screwed with for a while believing for about 20 years that his wife was a lowborne nobody who died

This is also a good point to counter the scarlet crusade who's using a boy as their supposed heir while we know it was a girl

Now take the following into account
Calia
1. Married a soldier (can't remember if she mentioned his looks)
2. Has a daughter
3. Believes them to be lost in a scourge attack
4. Disguised herself as a commoner during her life before the attack

Bolvar
1. Married a woman he believed to be a commoner
2. Was a soldier at the Time
3. Believes his wife to have been lost in a scourge attack

Now people say "you never know what blizzard is going to pull" but we've seen leaks made that talked about going to the dragon isles and their being a power struggle in the black flight, anduin being rescued by his daddies, most of BfA, the true identity of the runecarver, the thing that broke the arbiter, zovall being the original arbiter, and many more but the point remains the speculation community has more instances of guessing the story that blizz tries to sell as a twist

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Assuming soldiers made up 75% of the male population and 75% of them were within his age and married then you figure of that 57.75% of soldiers half of them have a daughter you've got a highball of 28.83% of soldiers that would have families matching his before the scourge in that entire kingdom.

Is bolvar from lordearon?

[Hitei]

Actually, I'd say not to get too carried away with the semantics there—this seems less relevant if you take Occam's Razor to the fact that there the Aqir of Ny'Alotha are specified as "Aqir", something which we've not seen applied to any of the other Aqiri-derivative races. Add to that how these races are specifically referred to as Silithid and Nerubians during the Zek'voz battle, it is implicitly suggested that these are, in fact, recognized as specific races that are distinct from the Aqir as they originally were.

The Occam's Razor option in this situation is that the things that all look like ducks, walk like ducks, talk like ducks, and are explicitly different colonies of the same duck empire who decided to use new names for their new duck empires are all still just sorts of duck. Just because you can have a museum exhibit that has "Muscovy", "Blue-winged Teal", and "Mallard" labeled doesn't make them not different types of ducks.

Blood Elves, High Elves, and Void Elves are distinct groups that are explicitly labeled as their respective races, even when they both appear "in the same battle" like in Suramar. But the only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf is that Blood Elves are High Elves who lived in Silvermoon and changed their name after the Scourge came through. The only difference between Blood Elves and Void Elves is that VE are Blood or High Elves who have been infused by void magic. They are all just different types of High Elves.

Does the fact that Alliance-associated, non-void infused ones still get labeled "High Elves" somehow make the other two not still High Elves? Of course not, they're called that because they are the group that hasn't renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified group. The same way that the aqir who are just called "Aqir" are the ones who have not renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified empire. The fact that none of the High/Blood Elves infused with void magic and following under Umbric and Alleria are called "High Elf" or "Blood elf" again, and are just called "Void Elves" now doesn't change the nature of what they are, anymore than Draenei, Krokul, Man'ari, Lightforged or Lost Ones all being distinct groups who often get called just their associated term cease to just be different sorts of Eredar.

If you have a word, "Aqir" which refers to giant, sentient insectoids spawned from the old gods... I don't know why you'd pretend that different groups of that exact species starting their own kingdoms or, over tens of thousands of years, having slightly different shell shapes or mandibles are now somehow not still a type of that species of giant, sentient insectoid spawned from the old gods.

[Khaza-R]

Is bolvar from lordearon?

I don't think its ever specified where he's from. Although there's also no mention of him ever living anywhere but Stormwind.

Either way, Calia was supposedly living Southshore in disguise with her husband and child from the fall of Lordaeron to when the Forsaken destroyed SS in Cataclysm. So their timelines don't sync up at all without significant retcons.

If I had to guess, Calia's husband and child will likely be a whole different story arc in the future.

[cuafpr]

got an invite today, and started an evoker ... interesting, but for me will never be a main when they hide their armor so much of the time, and the running animation seems....off. I see them being a very mobile class though. Also guess i need to finish SL now finally...

[cocomen2]

Patch content to reintroduce Anduin as a badass instead of an emo

11.0 scene showing us like Anduin rides same horse as Sylvanas, she manly holding him from behind while they kissing each other, they married in MAW.

So Anduin becomes Badass Emo.

[Sweetdeal]

Got added to F&F Last week again, hopefully they sent another wave for F&F. Guess I am late to the show

[Raetary]

Bolvar
1. Married a woman he believed to be a commoner

Yet Calias husband knew who she was.

They kept their relationship secret precisely because she was a princess, up to the point Calias mom found out.
Who then was sympathetic enough to bless them and marry them in secret, with the promise to give him a noble rank after Arthas gets married to not piss off Terenas.

[Nymrohd]

I don't think its ever specified where he's from. Although there's also no mention of him ever living anywhere but Stormwind.

Either way, Calia was supposedly living Southshore in disguise with her husband and child from the fall of Lordaeron to when the Forsaken destroyed SS in Cataclysm. So their timelines don't sync up at all without significant retcons.

If I had to guess, Calia's husband and child will likely be a whole different story arc in the future.

Mara Fordragon was the High Clerist of Stormwind during the First War and fled to Lordaeron, becoming a patron of the refugees of Stormwind and is one of the heroes celebrated by the Scarlet Crusade. While we cannot know for sure, the timeline does match for her to be a relation of Bolvar which would mean he was also from Stormwind or at least was born to Stormwind refugees. Conservation of detail would have her be his mother tbh; a high ranking priest's son would be a natural choice for the Paladin experiment.
She also had a title which makes her nobility. Which would make Bolvar nobility.