Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Machismo]

Your initial point was "YOU GOT THIS DATE DETAIL WRONG! OWN!!!!!!!11111!eleven!!11" also you qualified it with "If he budges further" so for you that line hasn't even been crossed yet.

Also you are hardly a pleb, especially here Mr/Ms. person I literally am required to view and whom can straight up insult me with actual insults and can do so with complete impunity, as you have done.

You got all sorts of details wrong, like dates, quotes, numbers, and even the people who said things.

My guess is that you knew you were wrong, making them outright and overt lies.

[beanman12345]

All you do is copy/paste bullshit from idiotic pundits.

We'd love to refute your shit opinions, but they're not even your own, and you can't even put enough thought into your pearl clutching to get basic information right. What else do you want us to discuss when you offer nothing?

My favorite is when she talks about some mythos about her or some nonsense, when it really just boils down to the that King of the Hill Luanne "I am a proud ignorant woman, and no one is going to change that!"

[Orange Joe]

My favorite is when she talks about some mythos about her or some nonsense, when it really just boils down to the that King of the Hill Luanne "I am a proud ignorant woman, and no one is going to change that!"

Her "mythos" boils down to she is a hypocrite, and that is it.

[Themius]

Is there a reason you're so angry all the time?

Here's the thing about spending all day on the internet and among circles of people who don't have their head in reality: You can't live or act within reality. You can't formulate how to move forward in reality. You can only ever bitch about how things aren't going your way. I have pretty progressive values, but as someone who is very active in the political sphere... like, you know, ACTUAL POLITICS, not just posturing on internet gaming forums and circle jerking others on the farther left end of the spectrum, I realize what can and cannot be accomplished within the current structure.

You make a lot of bullshit assumptions... you are also online you are also talking you realise this right? Whether something "can" or "can't" be accomplished has no weight on whether actions are progressive or not...

You can either shoot for the stars and hit nothing, or you can shoot for what's in front of you and actually accomplish things. Despite me repeatedly sharing my own views of ideals, I was constantly ostracized by other progressives for simply believing that many of those things were not within the realm of reality in the current day. It's why I make utter fun of all these dumb progressive purity tests, because that's exactly what they are. Dumb. There's really no other word needed for them. It's the same shit as when the Tea Party started calling other moderate Republicans RINOs for not adhering to far right principles. It's mostly just deranged lunacy of people who only ever exist inside of echo chambers. Not people who are out there with boots on the ground, trying to make things move forward.

We typically shoot for what is in front of us and then.... take a step back later down the line. This idea of "deranged" lunacy is fucking bogus. Claiming that x thing is progressive and me saying... that's not really "progressive" isn't lunacy it is fact. Me pointing out that "x thing are things that conservatives around the world support just because Americans are hinting at doing the same thing doesn't make them a lefty or a progressive. It says a lot more about us as a country."

Remember folks, Very Online People disease is dangerous for your sanity. Get out and expose yourself to politics in action, local town halls, legislature meetings, or hell, just get the fuck out of your house. I realize there's a pandemic and all but the stir crazy is starting to show.

Again you make assumptions that I have no involvement in politics at all... which is entirely false.

[Milchshake]

Gais, 'member when Biden brought in a bunch of different groups to build the Dem platforms. Sorry, it involved Leftists that dont live online.


Yet another Lefty/Anti-Dem talking point ("Dems are just shills for Private Prisons") down the drain. Oh well...I'm sure they will reflect on being wrong, yet again and do better next time.
Biden will direct the federal government today not to renew any contract with private prisons.

More boring shit for a Tuesday.

For the peeps that only understand politics through Forbeses.


Four Years Ago:


Today:



And more updates from https://twitter.com/TheOvalPawffice

[Edge-]

And more updates from https://twitter.com/TheOvalPawffice

Shit man, that's a busier schedule than Trump usually had.

Also, I'm enjoying watching Biden quietly enact liberal/progressive policies and moves that seem to largely be ignored by "progressive" media. I'm searchin the front page of Jacobin and shit, maybe they're just a bit slow to cover that tidbit because they're too busy not talking about the $15 minimum wage support, either.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/01/j...eralism-policy

Well, sorta, they mentioned it in an article largely patting themselves on the back for being responsible for it. Because I guess they think Biden reads Jacobin or something.

[Edge-]

Yeah, but anything he does is not progressive enough, he needs to go even further! And when he goes further, he must go further still. Until I'm satisfied!!!

I mean, I expect this from progressive media. We all should. It's kinda like, their jam, and what they should be doing right now.

But what kinda galls me a bit is that there seems to be little to now acknowledgement from them on the pretty quick progress he's making on a raft of issues, and instead a focus on patently dishonest bullshit like the attempt to frame his Covid response plan as his health care plan and claim that he'd dropped the public option, something that has not happened yet. It's that shit that's annoying the fuck outta me.

I'm here for prodding Biden to keep his progressive promises and be even more progressive. I'm not here for them misrepresenting bullshit like they are right now.

[Themius]

I mean, I expect this from progressive media. We all should. It's kinda like, their jam, and what they should be doing right now.

But what kinda galls me a bit is that there seems to be little to now acknowledgement from them on the pretty quick progress he's making on a raft of issues, and instead a focus on patently dishonest bullshit like the attempt to frame his Covid response plan as his health care plan and claim that he'd dropped the public option, something that has not happened yet.

Let's be honest here... doing a thing doesn't make it progressive. Is it good? Yes sure some of the things are, but to claim that biden himself is progressive or the most progressive president we have ever had a claim MADE IN THIS THREAD is fucking bogus by miles.He is not.

The issue I take is claiming that everything he does is progressive. "Good.. we have made some steps, but we need more steps to really solve the bigger issues" shouldn't be met with "omg progressives ar never satisfied. I bet you lot are just gonna claim every 'progressive' thing he does as being done thanks to progressive pressure!"

[Breccia]

Minimum wage bill will stand or fall on its own.

Good. It should be judged on its own merits.

[Themius]

Shit man, that's a busier schedule than Trump usually had.

Also, I'm enjoying watching Biden quietly enact liberal/progressive policies and moves that seem to largely be ignored by "progressive" media. I'm searchin the front page of Jacobin and shit, maybe they're just a bit slow to cover that tidbit because they're too busy not talking about the $15 minimum wage support, either.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/01/j...eralism-policy

Well, sorta, they mentioned it in an article largely patting themselves on the back for being responsible for it. Because I guess they think Biden reads Jacobin or something.

Excuse me but please please please tell us who is to thank for pushing biden left of positions he as publically been centirst or right on? I mean i recall the big thing being touted since he won SC was that with Biden as long as there is pressure from the left he can be pushed left that was the huge talking point made in media and on this forum, but now that we are in that moment the very argument that biden could be pushed left as long as there is pressure from the left means nothing to you? Some of the very same posters who gave that argument... that good things can happen with pressure from the left are now telling the left that they need to calm down and to not think because lefty things may happen that it is due to the pressure that they were exerting...

Saying that they're busy "patting themselves on the back" is a little silly no? I mean if we went into this election thinking that Biden could be pushed left as long as there was pressure who do you want to thank for the push left? The right? And they did talk about the $15 minimum wage. You maybe missed it? but they talked about it when it was announced.

[Edge-]

Let's be honest here... doing a thing doesn't make it progressive. Is it good? Yes sure some of the things are, but to claim that biden himself is progressive or the most progressive president we have ever had a claim MADE IN THIS THREAD is fucking bogus by miles.He is not.

The issue I take is claiming that everything he does is progressive. "Good.. we have made some steps, but we need more steps to really solve the bigger issues" shouldn't be met with "omg progressives ar never satisfied. I bet you lot are just gonna claim every 'progressive' thing he does as being done thanks to progressive pressure!"

I mean he's ticking off some progressive wishlist items -

Expanded federal protections for LGBTQ+ workers? Yep, already on it, and reportedly in a way that will make it difficult for a Republican president to reverse.
Proposed $15/h wage in the new stimulus? Yep, and off the back of that Democrats just introduced a bill in Congress.
Ending private prison partnerships? Yep, doubt the government can back out of existing contracts but he's ending renewals and new contracts.
Return to the Paris Accords and focusing on climate change? Yep, moving firmly in that direction.

I mean, he's a moderate liberal. Always has been, adjusted for the times, and will remain. I've never claimed he was a progressive himself (nor do I think has anyone else really), but he pretty arguably has the most progressive platform of any actual president to-date. Actual president, not presidential candidate.

Not everything he's doing is progressive, and I don't think anyone here is arguing that. The $1,400 compromise? Not progressive at all.

I'm confused to what you're complaining about though, because it doesn't seem to be about anything actually going on.

[Paranoid Android]

JUST IN: House and Senate Democrats introduce legislation to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 by 2025.'

The sad part that by 2025, $15/hr will still lag behind. I get it they don't and can't ramp up $15/hr in say a year. Also this is a nice steady, ramp up to wage and the Republicans will still balk at it.

Hmm? As I'm reading they are not even doing it increments?

[Themius]

I mean he's ticking off some progressive wishlist items -

Expanded federal protections for LGBTQ+ workers? Yep, already on it, and reportedly in a way that will make it difficult for a Republican president to reverse.
Proposed $15/h wage in the new stimulus? Yep, and off the back of that Democrats just introduced a bill in Congress.
Ending private prison partnerships? Yep, doubt the government can back out of existing contracts but he's ending renewals and new contracts.
Return to the Paris Accords and focusing on climate change? Yep, moving firmly in that direction.

I mean, he's a moderate liberal. Always has been, adjusted for the times, and will remain. I've never claimed he was a progressive himself (nor do I think has anyone else really), but he pretty arguably has the most progressive platform of any actual president to-date. Actual president, not presidential candidate.

Not everything he's doing is progressive, and I don't think anyone here is arguing that. The $1,400 compromise? Not progressive at all.

I'm confused to what you're complaining about though, because it doesn't seem to be about anything actually going on.

Expanded federal protections were already a thing that was in the process that was then thrown back by the GOP take over... so it isn't really a "progressive" thing so much as a restoration of the path already set. I don't really consider that to be "progressive" because the issue was we took a step back to then turn around and take another step to where we were.

$15/hr wage has been popular among democrats as a talking point for some years now. It is progress, but I would consider "progressive" to be tying the wage to inflation and then having it automatically raise. I mean we should be in the mid 20's right now not $15. $15 is just enough to survive, or barely, what happens as inflation goes up? Do we yet again stagnate here for who knows how long.

Ending private federal prisons is progressive though we are also one of very few countries that even have the things to begin with. And why not just end the contracts? Sue the government okay then pay them if they win.

Returning to the Paris accord isn't progressive... that is again a restoration.

My main complaints? The cabinet picks... the ties to private companies and boards... the odd fascination the country has with regime changes, like today at the press conference Venezuela came up... i mean a country has an election the USA backs a guy who has low support in Venezuela who's party has noseats in the assembly and the USA demands that be the leader of Venezuela... the EU has already backed off but the USA is still going down that bogus as hell path.

- - - Updated - - -

JUST IN: House and Senate Democrats introduce legislation to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 by 2025.'

The sad part that by 2025, $15/hr will still lag behind. I get it they don't and can't ramp up $15/hr in say a year. Also this is a nice steady, ramp up to wage and the Republicans will still balk at it.

Hmm? As I'm reading they are not even doing it increments?

It should be about 22-23 now... 15 in 2025 is... not enough.

[Noxx79]

JUST IN: House and Senate Democrats introduce legislation to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 by 2025.'

The sad part that by 2025, $15/hr will still lag behind. I get it they don't and can't ramp up $15/hr in say a year. Also this is a nice steady, ramp up to wage and the Republicans will still balk at it.

Hmm? As I'm reading they are not even doing it increments?

I hate legalese, but it looks like they’re doing it in increments, but also leaving in place more raises as determined by the “secretary” (labor? Treasury?). It doesn’t say in the scan the link provided.

[PACOX]

JUST IN: House and Senate Democrats introduce legislation to raise the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 by 2025.'

The sad part that by 2025, $15/hr will still lag behind. I get it they don't and can't ramp up $15/hr in say a year. Also this is a nice steady, ramp up to wage and the Republicans will still balk at it.

Hmm? As I'm reading they are not even doing it increments?

My week has been ridiculous. I needed a good laugh today.

Oh man that's hilarious. By the time it gets to $15 it'd going to be the equivalent of $7.25 !

[Themius]

I'll be honest, I was going to reply, but Themius' posts after this kinda show what I'm talking about, right down to the "you should thank us" attitude. Which, while partially true, is something I'd consider an issue.

You should be happy with progress made and move on to the next thing. Not bleat about how much credit you deserve.

The attitude isn’t thank the left but acknowledge them. For fuck sakes the left was immediately attacked ON ELECTION NIGHT as the problem and complacency is why we are where we are now... push push push don’t push and then step back once you step back you lose.

That’s what we say about dems and republicans in general. The same holds true for left wing and centrist democrats.

[Kathranis]

Yeah, but anything he does is not progressive enough, he needs to go even further! And when he goes further, he must go further still. Until I'm satisfied!!!

Let's be honest: there are worse positions to take. I'm all for celebrating the small victories, and Biden's policies have been more progressive than I ever thought possible, but there's nothing wrong with demanding more while we have a reasonable opportunity. There's a lot to do and the pendulum could swing back in 2022.

[Themius]

Let's be honest: there are worse positions to take. I'm all for celebrating the small victories, and Biden's policies have been more progressive than I ever thought possible, but there's nothing wrong with demanding more while we have a reasonable opportunity. There's a lot to do and the pendulum could swing back in 2022.

We literally only have this opportunity and only this one... perhaps more centrist democrats have faith that things won't go to shit and perhaps they're not as urgent about it but to me... everything is crazy urgen because who knows what the fuck 2022 will bring.

- - - Updated - - -

By some people? Sure. By everyone? No.
And I've seen plenty of acknowledgement. You attitude was specifically about thanking, though.


As I said, be happy with progress being made and move onto the next thing you can push on. Acknowledgement will come while you're still going, as it has been.

Not by everyone but by some very big names in politics and within the Democratic party.

"who is to thank" and "asking for thanks" mean two separate things.

x person/org is to thank for a thing doesn't mean literally to be like "thank you" my argument can be reworded to.

"excuse me but please please please tell us who you would credit for pushing Biden left"

To thank x for a thing is to acknowledge them, credit them.

[Themius]

Gais, 'member when Biden brought in a bunch of different groups to build the Dem platforms. Sorry, it involved Leftists that dont live online.


Yet another Lefty/Anti-Dem talking point ("Dems are just shills for Private Prisons") down the drain. Oh well...I'm sure they will reflect on being wrong, yet again and do better next time.
Biden will direct the federal government today not to renew any contract with private prisons.

More boring shit for a Tuesday.

For the peeps that only understand politics through Forbeses.


Four Years Ago:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsrWQdxXcAAZuEV?format=png&name=360x360[/MG]

Today:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsrWcgEXEAUe5n4?format=jpg&name=360x360[/IG]


And more updates from https://twitter.com/TheOvalPawffice

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsoFaYLWMAI8NIp?format=jpg&name=small[/MG]

Which lefties did Biden include other than the most major one we all know about? By the way, calling democrats shills for private prisons isn't exactly wrong... there is a history and a connection between either party and private interests including private interests in prisons. Because they've now moved to not back it anymore doesn't mean you get to say "ignore history when they were pro private prisons"

- - - Updated - - -

I certainly don't disagree. My issue is more that the "demanding more" part is seemingly ignoring the fact you can't just have everything done in the first week. Instant gratification seems to be a bit of a thing right now. Everything ASAP.

But that kinda ties into the fact that US politics just never, ever stops. Before Biden was even close to being sworn in, people were already looking at the 2024 race, let alone 2022, because the US is perpetually in a state of political campaigning. US politics needs a lot of work.

So what do we do? Say we got a little bit so... pack it up let's go home? Let's not continue to fight? That's as stupid as getting "some" civil rights and then not continuing to fight and fight for what would be the fairest and just be happy and "calm down"

In fact your argument here was used against doing more for black rights the idea that enough has been done and more will be done later... the blacks need to just chillax for a bit. They keep asking for "more" rights when they already got more and they just keep asking for more and more and more! The idea that enough has been done and fighting and fighting for more and more was just tiresome is exactly why reconstruction failed it is why jim crow happened.

We do this alllll the fucking time. Back some changes, get half way there, and then because the pressure goes away progress moves SLOOOOOWWWW or stops or in the worst case (which happens too often) regresses. Then when we regress people celebrate restoration as if we actually progressed somewhere...

Sometimes I wonder if I view things differently simply because I am a minority who feels that there are two very distinct Americas. The America people often talk about (by people who are often white, this isn't about racism just experiences based on factors uncontrolled) is so not the America I am in.

I mean I watch politicians talk about the country about how this and that isn't what this country is or what this country isn't about and I wonder... do they know the country they're in?

The reason for ASAP is because it is an urgent thing... we have seen what happens when urgency is abandoned because small measures or even significant steps were taken... and the outcome is not amazing.

[Felya]

It should be about 22-23 now... 15 in 2025 is... not enough.

You do realize that you are now arguing against a minimum wage? I mean any minimum wage... if we had any conservative posters, you just gave them the platform to argue that a minimum is not sustainable.