Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Belize]

OH I didn't miss the link. I simply don't see the reason to give someone any credence that does nothing but smear me. I did go back and see that it (not shockingly) failed to include those who won't receiving aid from the new relief bill from that received aid from previous ones. Odd that.

For a dude whinging about "dude trust me" you haven't provided a single source for your claims.

Keep living in your made up fantasy strawman world.

[Nurasu]

The consensus is that it's acceptable as long as Trump did it worse.

There's a huge difference in holding unaccompanied minors and creating them. Biden has also already started a taskforce to get them where they need to go rather than hold them indefinitely.

[Edge-]

The consensus is that it's acceptable as long as Trump did it worse.

Not really. I don't think anyone is thrilled by child detention centers.

But the context is key here.

Under Trump: There was a new policy of literally kidnapping children from their parents. Like, actual literal kidnapping. They lost a ton of the parents/kids and the ACLU is still trying to reunite them. Some may never see their families again. This was all intentionally cruel.

Under Biden: There is no such policy, it's been rescinded and children are not taken from their parents. What we're seeing now is similar to the surge we saw under Obama, where there were unaccompanied minors making it to the border so they couldn't be held with their families while they were being processed. That's why they're opening up new facilities, and thankfully I don't think we've seen any reports of rotten food or ICE abuse (yet) which is very different than what happened under Trump.

TLDR: Context is key, and while nobody is thrilled about "kids in cages" the context behind it under Trump and Biden isn't remotely the same.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/u...der-biden.html

The number of migrant children in custody along the border has tripled in the past two weeks to more than 3,250, according to federal immigration agency documents obtained by The New York Times, and many of them are being held in jail-like facilities for longer than the three days allowed by law.

The problem for the administration is both the number of children crossing the border and what to do with them once they are in custody. Under the law, the children are supposed to be moved to shelters run by the Health and Human Services Department, but because of the pandemic the shelters until last week were limiting how many children they could accommodate.

The growing number of unaccompanied children is just one element of an escalating problem at the border. Border agents encountered a migrant at the border about 78,000 times in January — more than double the rate at the same time a year ago and higher than in any January in a decade.

[Themius]

There's a huge difference in holding unaccompanied minors and creating them. Biden has also already started a taskforce to get them where they need to go rather than hold them indefinitely.

How about we just don't you know jail them???? like during slavery the moderate opinion was to give slaves better rights... yeah no just abolish it was the better answer.

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Not really. I don't think anyone is thrilled by child detention centers.

But the context is key here.

Under Trump: There was a new policy of literally kidnapping children from their parents. Like, actual literal kidnapping. They lost a ton of the parents/kids and the ACLU is still trying to reunite them. Some may never see their families again. This was all intentionally cruel.

Under Biden: There is no such policy, it's been rescinded and children are not taken from their parents. What we're seeing now is similar to the surge we saw under Obama, where there were unaccompanied minors making it to the border so they couldn't be held with their families while they were being processed. That's why they're opening up new facilities, and thankfully I don't think we've seen any reports of rotten food or ICE abuse (yet) which is very different than what happened under Trump.

TLDR: Context is key, and while nobody is thrilled about "kids in cages" the context behind it under Trump and Biden isn't remotely the same.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/u...der-biden.html

Easy fix... if they have family in USA find them, ignore any legal status, and release their relatives to them. But both sides aren't interested in doing that...

[Felya]

Easy fix... if they have family in USA find them, ignore any legal status, and release their relatives to them. But both sides aren't interested in doing that...

They don’t know who the kids parents are, but you think they know who their relatives are in US? That’s not easy at all...

[Nurasu]

How about we just don't you know jail them???? like during slavery the moderate opinion was to give slaves better rights... yeah no just abolish it was the better answer.

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Easy fix... if they have family in USA find them, ignore any legal status, and release their relatives to them. But both sides aren't interested in doing that...

Better rights. Yes, let the 10 year old go panhandle in Las Angeles, great.

[Felya]

Better rights. Yes, let the 10 year old go panhandle in Las Angeles, great.

That’s not what he is saying... he isn’t saying what to do with the kids... just those that know their parents, which is not the kids in these camps. Kids, whose numbers have been increasing in crossing the border, for an unknown reason... after Biden became president.

[Edge-]

Easy fix... if they have family in USA find them, ignore any legal status, and release their relatives to them. But both sides aren't interested in doing that...

So what do they do with the kids while they're trying to track down the family, out of curiosity?

[Nurasu]

That’s not what he is saying... he isn’t saying what to do with the kids... just those that know their parents, which is not the kids in these camps. Kids, whose numbers have been increasing in crossing the border, for an unknown reason... after Biden became president.

That is what he's saying - that they shouldn't be stopped apparently. It was already explained that these aren't kids being separated from their families like under Trump. Maybe put them in contact with Ghislaine's lawyer and she can set them up with a job.

[Felya]

That is what he's saying - that they shouldn't be stopped apparently. It was already explained that these aren't kids being separated from their families like under Trump. Maybe put them in contact with Ghislaine's lawyer and she can set them up with a job.

I did not pick up on that... but, if that is the case... god save them, before QAnon members get to them first...

[Shadowferal]

So what do they do with the kids while they're trying to track down the family, out of curiosity?

That was my thought. Then again I'm sure he'll give his usual vague response revealing he hasn't thought things out at all.

[bladeXcrasher]

Not really. I don't think anyone is thrilled by child detention centers.

But the context is key here.

Under Trump: There was a new policy of literally kidnapping children from their parents. Like, actual literal kidnapping. They lost a ton of the parents/kids and the ACLU is still trying to reunite them. Some may never see their families again. This was all intentionally cruel.

Under Biden: There is no such policy, it's been rescinded and children are not taken from their parents. What we're seeing now is similar to the surge we saw under Obama, where there were unaccompanied minors making it to the border so they couldn't be held with their families while they were being processed. That's why they're opening up new facilities, and thankfully I don't think we've seen any reports of rotten food or ICE abuse (yet) which is very different than what happened under Trump.

TLDR: Context is key, and while nobody is thrilled about "kids in cages" the context behind it under Trump and Biden isn't remotely the same.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/u...der-biden.html

I don't think ICE could even cause problems because they aren't (thankfully) handling these detainees while their families in the US are located. A whole different department is handling it as well as working with humanitarian groups to maintain transparency about what is going on.

[Felya]

That was my thought. Then again I'm sure he'll give his usual vague response revealing he hasn't thought things out at all.

There is also nothing saying if they knew their relatives, these kids wouldn’t be released to them. The key to these children, is that they are unaccompanied minors.

As an example... when I came to the US at 10... if someone asked me if I had relatives in US... I would say yes, my grandmother’s brother. They would ask me his name... I would answer with his first name in Russian... they would ask me for my grandmother’s last name, I would say it in Russian... after not finding anyone... they would ask her maiden name... I still don’t know my grandmother’s maiden name, which would have found her brother... if we figured out the correct spelling of a name that has a dozen consonants and one vowel...

[Jettisawn]

its not limited to the amount of tax on your return. You can owe/have zero tax liability and you could still get a refund of up to 1400 currently and 3600 under the new plan.

Incorrect, and thus showing you don't actually know WTF you are talking about.


https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/t...are-tax-credit

This credit is not refundable, which means it can reduce your tax bill to zero but you won't get a refund on anything left over from the credit.

[Themius]

They don’t know who the kids parents are, but you think they know who their relatives are in US? That’s not easy at all...

They don't know who the kids parents are yes... but many of the immigrants coming here already have family here. By the way in case you're not entirely aware... we already do sometimes release or reunite children with their extended family in America.

What I am saying is that we should do that more and on top of that not go after their family who may be here illegally and therefore scared to come forward.

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Better rights. Yes, let the 10 year old go panhandle in Las Angeles, great.

What part of "family already in the USA" did you not understand?

[Edge-]

They don't know who the kids parents are yes... but many of the immigrants coming here already have family here.

And it often takes time to verify that information to ensure that the child is being placed with their actual relatives.

By the way in case you're not entirely aware... we already do sometimes release or reunite children with their extended family in America.

And these children will eventually be released as well. But again, what is the government supposed to do with the kids while they're being processed and their families are being tracked down? Leave them on the streets?

What I am saying is that we should do that more and on top of that not go after their family who may be here illegally and therefore scared to come forward.

We are doing more. And the government can't really release them to family here illegally unless they're also waiting on their cases to process, and if they are waiting then they don't have to worry about "coming forward".

[Themius]

So what do they do with the kids while they're trying to track down the family, out of curiosity?

This is what i am referring to.

The Washington Post, which says the Biden administration has already "entered crisis mode" on the southern border.

They report the Biden administration is so concerned about running out of space for children that shelters have been authorised to purchase airfares and cover costs of minors with family already in the United States.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki defended the "migrant facilities" this week, saying they weren't the "kids in cages" under the Trump administration.

“This is a difficult situation, and it’s a difficult choice,” she said. “That’s the choice we’ve made.”

The main distinction from the White House is that their policy does not separate children from their parents, but are rather focused on relocating children that enter the country without any adults.

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And it often takes time to verify that information to ensure that the child is being placed with their actual relatives.



And these children will eventually be released as well. But again, what is the government supposed to do with the kids while they're being processed and their families are being tracked down? Leave them on the streets?



We are doing more. And the government can't really release them to family here illegally unless they're also waiting on their cases to process, and if they are waiting then they don't have to worry about "coming forward".

An illegal immigrant already here may feel scared coming forward for their relative.

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That was my thought. Then again I'm sure he'll give his usual vague response revealing he hasn't thought things out at all.

If a child doesn't have family already in the states then they would have to be in a facility. but those that do should be able to be released relatively quickly, not months and months later.

[Edge-]

This is what i am referring to.

I...think you're reading that wrong dude - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-she...ings-increase/

And more specifically from the guy that wrote the article - https://twitter.com/camiloreports/st...42703766675457

"(Office of Refugee Resettlement) care providers are authorized to use program funds to purchase airline tickets in the event that a sponsor is not able to pay fees associated with commercial airfare, and a child's physical release would be otherwise delayed."

They're paying for them to be flown out to sponsors (family), dude.

[Themius]

I...think you're reading that wrong dude - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-she...ings-increase/

And more specifically from the guy that wrote the article - https://twitter.com/camiloreports/st...42703766675457



They're paying for them to be flown out to sponsors (family), dude.

I did read that wrong though my point still is about children with family already here.

A UN Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees study published this spring found that 36 percent of the unaccompanied immigrant children it interviewed had at least one parent in the United States. (Not all of those children, however, said that reuniting with family was one of the reasons they'd come from their home countries.)

It also appears that the survey focused on parents, excluded extended family already in the states. So it very likely could mean a majority had family of some kind already in America.

Another thing is that unaccompanied children with family in America are still unaccompanied sometimes :

Although these children may have a parent or legal guardian who resides in the United States,
they are classified as unaccompanied if the parent or legal guardian cannot provide immediate care. Children
accompanied by any adult who is not a parent or a designated legal guardian, including family members such as older
siblings or aunts and uncles, are also classified as unaccompanied.

The government also doesn't track children who were with extended family and then separated, only those that were with their parents by the way. So the number of children separated from older cousins, aunts, uncles is a mystery. That's immaterial to what I am talking about, but it is something people should be aware of.

So it's these kinds of cases I am talking about these kinds of children. If the UN survey is accurate with 36 percent having one parent here, well... how many of those children have aunts and uncles too? If they were all released to extended family how many children would be left in the detention centres?

How many family members don't want to say a thing because they're scared that ICE who is has been acting against the President's demands will take them away and deport them? There would need to be unconditional releases to those people with promises and assurances they would be safe from ICE, which could help to get more children reunited if not with their parents, with their family.

Even when the government knows their family members and the family is trying to get the children, it still is an extremely long process. Some of the cases where we know they are who they say they are, and the child's parent confirms this it still can be months, and that was before the cuts and influx of immigrants.

My ultimate goal though and what I believe we should do is simple.

Let them in, speed track visas or greencards or whatever so they can stay.

Do away with the asylum investigations and such from any country in Latin America where the USA has ever played a hand in regime changes.

[Edge-]

It also appears that the survey focused on parents, excluded extended family already in the states. So it very likely could mean a majority had family of some kind already in America.

The Vox article doesn't state if they're being kept after the family members have been verified or if they're kept while the government is verifying the family. I'd hope the government would take the time to make sure they're sending the kids to actual family members and not just anyone who wants to claim them.

I'm trying to track down the study now, but if you've got a link that'd be great.

Another thing is that unaccompanied children with family in America are still unaccompanied sometimes :

Because they show up unaccompanied, that's not to say they don't have family here, just that they show up without family and the government has to track down/verify family.

The government also doesn't track children who were with extended family and then separated, only those that were with their parents by the way. So the number of children separated from older cousins, aunts, uncles is a mystery. That's immaterial to what I am talking about, but it is something people should be aware of.

Because the children have to be placed with someone who has legal authority over them. Minors/cousins/siblings may not have that authority.

So it's these kinds of cases I am talking about these kinds of children. If the UN survey is accurate with 36 percent having one parent here, well... how many of those children have aunts and uncles too? If they were all released to extended family how many children would be left in the detention centres?

Again, you still haven't answered what the government is supposed to do with the children while it verifies their family and places the children with them.

Are they supposed to leave them out on the streets?

Edit: That report in the Vox article is from 2014, so I wonder how applicable it is today - https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/581340...mmigrants-daca