It's extremely complex to navigate the covenant choices to decide for what you want

[epigramx]

If its too confusing for u to pick

Just wait for us scary "mythic raider elitists"

You must be joking. I was a regular of elitist jerks forum when you were baby. This isn't about something that the regular "hard core raider" can easily wrap around their head unless we're talking about the smartest people in the top 10 guilds (that means not you).

- - - Updated - - -

I'll try to simplify it.

You got 4 covenants. If you want to choose them only on power, you need to look at your specc first, and then at what you wish to major in. PvP/M+/Raids.
Does your specc enough AoE by themselves to make M+ a nonissue, and maybe lacks burst instead?
Take a covenant that gives you a burst option.

Absolutely not. This isn't a simplistic choice of "pvp covenants" or "tank covenants" etc. Every single covenants can do EVERYTHING and the issue here is the variability is extreme so it's extremely hard to pick one confidently when there some (albeit mild) lockdowns/cooldowns to switch.

[ro9ue]

The rub for me is that I'm torn between lore, aesthetic and mechanics. It's not like mechanics vs mechanics vs mechanics... that choice is easy, I just pick what I want. Same if it was story vs story vs story.... or aesthetic.

So I have to decide what's more important to me... cosmetics? Mechanics? Lore/story? Then I have to weigh that higher than the other options. So while I may really like the mechanics of Venthyr, maybe the aesthetic and story just doesn't fit as well for my race and preferred spec.

[epigramx]

People at the very high end will naturally pick whatever sims the highest.

But that's also a joke. You can't sim the game that easily with such an extreme variability.
And when people do it only with "Patchwerk" sims it's pointless (90% of sims do that).

[Zyky]

It's honestly just too much. There's way too much to have to decide on right away and if you make the wrong decision(especially with how they keep heavily altering covenants and legendaries days before release) you're going to be behind and/or pushed aside from teams/groups.

[epigramx]

Yes, it is certainly complicated for people who don't take some time to actually find out about these systems who instead rush to the Internet to spam

I hope you're joking or you haven't even read the covenant + soulbinds as you preach.
The 12 combos of trees available are extremely intertwined and not that unique.
Whoever says it's easy to decide which one of the 12 is clearly best is a joker.

[aceperson]

i just feel blizz is trying to screw over the sim heavy community that wow has to the detriment of the casual base. it's weird. most content is balanced around the much worse player base (normal raiding with some heroic bosses, low level mythic +, world quests, world mobs, world bosses, etc) yet the main progression systems have been made specifically to try and break the sim nature which causes even more sims to be needed in order to see if something is actually an upgrade.

ion keeps saying they want to make things easy to read so you don't have to sim for upgrades but they keep making the game more complex at the same time. if you want easy to read items, they need to go back to the wotlk style of design. just leave it to gear, trinkets, and set bonuses. the only thing people would feel a need to sim would be swapping trinkets and set bonuses just like the old days.

[epigramx]

This is entirely the point, if you've read any of Blizzard's statements on Covenants.

Not to be complex per se, but to not have a clear-cut best choice.

Yes amazing point that (I mean original here) HOWEVER,
There should still be some sense of choice here.
I sense a lot of the "sub-trees" are too similar!

[Shedaar]

I think people are missing the fact that there are literraly different soulbinds and the covenant class skill isn't the only thing that matters.
If someone claims this doesn't affect majority of the players in a substantial way then they are simply ignorant.

And these last minute patches?
This is a circus on wheels and god knows what else may we encounter before the raiding starts.

Everything should already be set in stone so we can plan accordingly instead of wondering if they are going to buff necrolords and venthyr for hunters or nerf kyrian/necro for shadow priests last minute?
This isn't friendly user experience

[Zyky]

People at the very high end will naturally pick whatever sims the highest. Anyone else will pick what they like.

Why does it really matter if you're doing 2-5% more or less damage in any given situation if you're clearing the content you're doing?

If you're not in a top 100 guild or competing for gladiator or m+ ladders, it really won't matter what you ultimately pick.

And if you regret your choice, you can switch and be completely caught up within a couple of weeks.

But it does matter. This is the kind of argument that's extremely misleading to the community. Guilds going all the way to top 1000-1500 expect you to pick what's best and if you don't you get removed/declined and they find someone who is willing to pick the right option. Weekly pug groups to complete keys expect everyone to have the meta options and if you don't you're wasting over an hour just to find a group(s) complete your weekly key(s). It was the exact same thing with legendaries in Legion, if you didn't have the meta legendaries or just preferred other legendaries because you liked how they felt rotationally, you were kicked from raid teams and removed from M+ groups.

[Pontifice]

"It's extremely complex to navigate the covenant choices to decide for what you want"
Do anyone find any of these recent expansions' "grind for more power at max level" systems not complex?

[Majerin]

I hope you're joking or you haven't even read the covenant + soulbinds as you preach.
The 12 combos of trees available are extremely intertwined and not that unique.
Whoever says it's easy to decide which one of the 12 is clearly best is a joker.

It's very hard to decide, and I rather think that's the whole point (Whether that's good or bad is another thing entirely). On the Shadow Priest website, there's an excellent breakdown of the dichotomy and how even saying "Just take whatever sims the highest" will be a worthless point because there's tradeoffs that aren't represented by sims.

I think they have nerfed *most* things to the point where the difference is negligible for most classes even to the highest end raiders and M+ pushers, especially in terms of tradeoffs. I do wish they would have gone the buff route and made every soulbind and ability feel as good to take as, say, Pelagos and Condemn but I can respect how close they've come.

To the poster regarding fighting between Aesthetics v Mechanics v Lore I completely agree. I badly want to take Necrolord on my Death Knight but I absolutely loathe grabby hand. I like everything about death's due, just can't stand the nightfae. Unfortunate circumstances.

[LordVargK]

Not confusing at all. Two scenarios:
1. You care. Then you use a soulbind calculator from wowhead and invest some time learning the new stuff.
2. You don't care/don't know better.
You pick what you like.

Either way, the difference between Soulbinds will be marginal.

[Hinastorm]

I thought this was exactly what they wanted to move away from? Not being able to know what is good at a glance.

Weird that they quadrupled down on needing a spreadsheet to be optimal.

[LordTakeo]

You must be joking. I was a regular of elitist jerks forum when you were baby. This isn't about something that the regular "hard core raider" can easily wrap around their head unless we're talking about the smartest people in the top 10 guilds (that means not you).

It is pretty much that tho. Just because you can't make basic decitions, -despite- people here doing their best to help, doesn't mean everyone that isn't you, must be an imbecile.

Absolutely not. This isn't a simplistic choice of "pvp covenants" or "tank covenants" etc. Every single covenants can do EVERYTHING and the issue here is the variability is extreme so it's extremely hard to pick one confidently when there some (albeit mild) lockdowns/cooldowns to switch.

It is tho. Alot of the soulbinds have very few actually good DPS abilities. Especially with Palegos neutered who had two. Unless you mean CC immunity is heavily underrated, I'd say getting 5% of your mainstat is pretty much beating that.

And the abilities themselves are either ST good, Aoe good, flexible, and depending on how they compliment your specc, you pick it.
If you have equally great performing ones, then consider what neutral ability (survivability of Kyrian pots/Necrolord shields vs mobility of Venthyr port/Nightfae fox) they give.
It's pretty much a flowchart.

How did you even picked a class, if this is weighing so heavily on your mind? -That- is by far a harder choice imo, as it requires an entire Group/Raid to think over. Even for PvP.

But alas, listen to the guys just trying to help you. Pick what feels smooth, and see how everything gets nerved/buff after the first heroic week like every expansion.
They can nerf damage, but they can't nerf how the ability impacts your rotation.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I hope you're joking or you haven't even read the covenant + soulbinds as you preach.
The 12 combos of trees available are extremely intertwined and not that unique.
Whoever says it's easy to decide which one of the 12 is clearly best is a joker.

So you can’t comprehend the system and for that reason it’s overly complicated, not “unique” and for some reason too hard for you.


The only joker here seems to be you trying too hard, and it would be funnier if you weren’t. There’s a word for that blue-ish humanoid race with large tusks and Jamaican accents that applies to you.

[Queendom]

You have 4 covenants each of which has 2 major abilities that are completely different and unique and WITHIN EACH of those covenants there are 3 soulbinds that have an ENTIRE TREE of again relatively unique abilities (at least within the covenant) so we're talking about making a choice based on about TWELVE sub-trees and extra differences beyond those.
This should had been clearly simpler because I'm one of those idiots that have multiple degrees in the sciences and I still think this is not easy to wrap around your head for a coherent all around big picture decision.

My thought exactly. I'm just picking mine based on visual theme, I don't think I'd ever play so long to unlock even ahalf of these abilities.
I'm definitely not picking the one with fairies and other anime stuff no matter what their abilities there are.

[Mardux]

But that's also a joke. You can't sim the game that easily with such an extreme variability.
And when people do it only with "Patchwerk" sims it's pointless (90% of sims do that).

You being unable to figure out how to change the parameters for a sim doesnt mean that "90%" of sims are using default parameters.

[Cyanu]

Thats the point... No obvious Best choice..

[iosdeveloper]

I like it a lot, i miss the endless theorycrafting and BiS planning i did at school lessons

[loras]

I see the OP's point and i'll probably just decide as follows: Class ability>Covenant ability>Soulbinds

In terms of their weight for my decisions.
Practically it'll be a while before i can play, so by then a guide or just mimicking some top player might also do, in lieu of figuring what works best for me by trial and error.