Shadowlands Sylvanas and Anduin cinematic.

[VladlTutushkin]

https://youtu.be/Ynmd_qFp5hY

Well... this is it boys? She is confirmed “secretly a good guy all along” and we can now skip the unnecessary parts between the launch of SL and its final patch and go play something else?
What really bothers me personally is how after all the ridiculously evil and “moustache twirling” things horde did in BfA they basically were forgiven and pushed all the blame on Sylvanas. All of it. You cant even hate horde now (talking from META perspective) without being totally in the wrong and evil vengeful maniac because it “werent them! It was all evil sylvanas! They are innocent, how can you even...!”
But then if Sylvanas also a hero that will fix the unfair afterlife somehow and yadda yadda... Then who’s fault is it? Who is to blame for all that evil? Or it just gets absolved and evaporates on a wind? I am struggling to understand the “message” Blizz sending our way. And message it is because they ALWAYS cramming “moral messages” into their narrative nowdays.

[shoc]

Thinking you're justified in your actions because you believe you're doing the right thing is villain 101.

[deenman]

damn that anduin and her banshee lover....the scarlet crusade was right all along

[leggomydairy]

I’m not going to lie the plot line coming out of that video made me think of the sitcom “The Good Place.”
Spoilers for that show if anyone cares, but:



Some people die and are sent to the afterlife. They realize everyone goes to the “bad place” when they die because the system that judges humans is inherently flawed. They set out to change it. Including some indirect killing of humans along the way to bring them to the afterlife to help them create a “fairer, just system.”



Sound familiar?

[VladlTutushkin]

Thinking you're justified in your actions because you believe you're doing the right thing is villain 101.

Well, yes, usually i would have agreed with you BUT there are several major differences here.
1) We DO know Covenants are “flawed”, and even if i for example think those flaws are a feature, not a bug lore meta might disagree.
2) Anduin acts as “the playerbase” and he clearly has some minor worm of doubt burrowing into him now. He is literally us and we supposed to start “doubting everything”.
3) Devs said that she might have motives that actually good and we were just too small brained to realise that.

[Ophenia]

Most villains in videogames/movies think they are right, nothing new here. Doesn't mean she'll be redempted.

It's all about point of views. I didn't see that as an admittance she's doing good. She just explained her PoV, which I think everyone was aware of, even more since the Shadowlands opening cinematic. She basically explained what she meant by "setting us all free", but I think everyone on earth (except op apparently) understood already.

Doesn't make her a nice girl.

[VladlTutushkin]

damn that anduin and her banshee lover....the scarlet crusade was right all along

“Anduin and her...” well, you aint wrong, Anduin is more “her” then “him”.

[Shampro]

It has nothing to do with ''being a good guy all along'' find a brain please. She just has motivations that align with her tragic backstory and how FACTUALLY the Shadowlands are structured, she still went about it in 'evil'' ways. Again, why do people shut off their fucking brains when it comes to this character? The Shadowlands, the afterlife, her life and the life of basically every living being is predetermined and she wants to tear it down as it's, you guessed it, aligning her story, free will.

I wish the WoW playerbase wasn't so smoothbrain when it comes to analyzing stories.

[VladlTutushkin]

It has nothing to do with ''being a good guy all along'' find a brain please. She just has motivations that align with her tragic backstory and how FACTUALLY the Shadowlands are structured, she still went about it in 'evil'' ways. Again, why do people shut off their fucking brains when it comes to this character? The Shadowlands, the afterlife, her life and the life of was basically every living being is predetermined and she wants to tear it down as it's, you guessed it, aligning her story, free will.

I wish the WoW playerbase wasn't so smoothbrain when it comes to analyzing stories.

And if Afterlife is so unfair and flawed then “tearing it down” and rebuilding makes her a “good guy” in the context. Maybe its you who should find a spare brain?

[Shampro]

And if Afterlife is so unfair and flawed then “tearing it down” and rebuilding makes her a “good guy” in the context. Maybe its you who should find a spare brain?

Ok I see that the smoothbrain is too strong, hopeless. Admit that you didn't want her to have any motivations so you could continue to circlejerk about her ''mustache twirling'' you wanted her to be Gul'dan power for powers sake.

Infracted.

[Super Dickmann]

My god, an actual motive, it only took three fucking years, two books and quest upon quest of smarm, retardation and self-sabotage. It goes to show much of a void this character has been (and will likely continue to be) for there to be shock and annoyance that she actually has the bare quality of any character, namely a reason for what they do.

Past that, while I'm foregoing discussing much of Shadowlands before I can fully binge it, this and some early parts of Bastion basically ensure we're going for Sylvanas being right in the diagnosis but wrong on the cure. Anduin is even a mouthpiece for this by quickly cutting to the point where no matter what she says she's still dressed in skulls in a hell dimension and allied with a giant blue man who wants to end reality, so her prescription is worse than the disease and he's not playing ball. Kind of surprisingly welcome content from him as well, rather than pleading with her to be good or taking her at face value.

That said, the cinematic leaves it vague on whether she thinks everyone goes to the Maw regardless of choices or if she's seen the other afterlives and when she talks about your afterlife being decided for you she means the Arbiter system. It's an important distinction since the former leaves the way open for a hackneyed redemption story whereas the latter keeps her more of an actor who is aware of their actions.

[BaumanKing]

And if Afterlife is so unfair and flawed then “tearing it down” and rebuilding makes her a “good guy” in the context. Maybe its you who should find a spare brain?

Culling of Stratholme to prevent zombie outbreak didn't make Arthas a good guy. It's the same with Sylvanas.

[VladlTutushkin]

Ok I see that the smoothbrain is too strong, hopeless. Admit that you didn't want her to have any motivations so you could continue to circlejerk about her ''mustache twirling'' you wanted her to be Gul'dan power for powers sake.

Wow, quell your raging. You may pop a vessel if you go on like that. I dont care much about her motivation, i only care that she ends up dead in the end. But that puts her goal in the positive light aka allows her to go for “SHADOWLANDS ARE FREEEEE!” Moment.

- - - Updated - - -

My god, an actual motive, it only took three fucking years, two books and quest upon quest of smarm, retardation and self-sabotage. It goes to show much of a void this character has been (and will likely continue to be) for there to be shock and annoyance that she actually has the bare quality of any character, namely an actual goal.

Past that, while I'm foregoing discussing much of Shadowlands before I can fully binge it, this and some early parts of Bastion basically ensure we're going for Sylvanas being right in the diagnosis but wrong on the cure. Anduin is even a mouthpiece for this by quickly cutting to the point where no matter what she says she's still dressed in skulls in a hell dimension and allied with a giant blue man who wants to end reality, so her prescription is worse than the disease and he's not playing ball. Kind of surprisingly welcome content from him as well, rather than pleading with her to be good or taking her at face value.

Dunno, mostly seemed like his usual drivel. And yes, the solution is far worse then the problem because like... We solve Revendreth problem (more or less) by offing Denathrius who was a corrupt prick (partially) because of Jailer and whole Anima Draught that caused many covenants to use severe measures was also caused by the Jailer... Hence... Shadowlands has its problems but like half of them are work of the Jailer and another half can be fixed by usual “kill the head, body withers” method.

[Kithelle]

Just more lies from her, more games....that or she has actually fooled herself into thinking she is the good guy here.

[Shampro]

Just more lies from her, more games....that or she has actually fooled herself into thinking she is the good guy here.

Are you new to stories by chance?, some ''villains'' consider themselves the good guys. Also, the cinematic is literally called no more lies.

Cope.

[Ophenia]

Wow, quell your raging. You may pop a vessel if you go on like that. I dont care much about her motivation, i only care that she ends up dead in the end. But that puts her goal in the positive light aka allows her to go for “SHADOWLANDS ARE FREEEEE!” Moment.

Well, I think here Blizz cannot win. If she was just a bad guy, with no other plan than "destroy everything!!!!!!", people would complain about the lack of "depth" and, once again, the mustache twirling issue.

At least they're going through another route, with justifications you could understand (see: Arthas' Stratholme). Not saying writers are writing a masterpiece of background/personality to Sylvanas, obviously not, but at least she gave explanations that make Anduin nearly go the "that's not wrong, but I disagree with how it's done" route.

The fact that a lot of people vehemently "wants her dead" as you said, is actually proof that their writing worked. If readers/players hate a character with such passion, it actually means they did a good job (unless they actually planned for a redemption story, in this case that's an utter failure).

That said, the cinematic leaves it vague on whether she thinks everyone goes to the Maw regardless of choices or if she's seen the other afterlives and when she talks about your afterlife being decided for you she means the Arbiter system. It's an important distinction since the former leaves the way open for a hackneyed redemption story whereas the latter keeps her more of an actor who is aware of their actions.

I'm inclined to think it's the second here. She dislikes the fact you have a very short span (your life, so somewhere between 10 if extra-unlucky and 10.000 years if you're an elf) to define what your DEFINITIVE afterlive will look like. She doesn't enjoy the fact that you can spend 10 years doing bad stuff and pay for eternity afterward. Maybe she was talking about her case, she was a good person for most of her life (when she was ranger), until she was made undead/banshee, which apparently condemned her to the Maw (for all we know, Edge of Night stuff).

[Super Dickmann]

Dunno, mostly seemed like his usual drivel. And yes, the solution is far worse then the problem because like... We solve Revendreth problem (more or less) by offing Denathrius who was a corrupt prick (partially) because of Jailer and whole Anima Draught that caused many covenants to use severe measures was also caused by the Jailer... Hence... Shadowlands has its problems but like half of them are work of the Jailer and another half can be fixed by usual “kill the head, body withers” method.

Oh, no, he's still a bore and I'm not looking forward to bailing him out but I'm just glad that rather than having him go "Hmmm", they had him point out what any player in that scene would bring up, namely that that's all well and good for talk, but she still allied with blue Satan and everything around her is comically evil.

When it comes to Denathrius and company I agree and disagree, since while them siding with the Jailor (ditto the Forsworn) is a culmination of the issue and let us kill them, this is only the point where they cross the line. The Forsworn are a reaction to how Bastion usually works, ditto Denathrius was able to LARP as a Count for eons before he crossed the line by teaming up openly with the Jailor. Had the way not been opened, nothing would change and these places would still remain fucked. There's no internal mechanism to prevent the realms from being run like fiefdoms by their individual leaders. This is what I figure the point is - what we do in the individual realms to fix them up being a better alternative to tearing everything down and letting Satan take the reins, but the problems still being something that the narrative acknowledges.

[BaumanKing]

So right now it looks like "Three lies will he offer you" and "The crown of light will bring only darkness" could be about Anduin. He seems to agree with Sylvanas, but not completely yet. I still don't believe Blizz will actually turn him evil, but making some changes to him would be a good change of pace.

[Shampro]

So right now it looks like "Three lies will he offer you" and "The crown of light will bring only darkness" could be about Anduin. He seems to agree with Sylvanas, but not completely yet. I still don't believe Blizz will actually turn him evil, but making some changes to him would be a good change of pace.

He will probably fall momentarily but come back from it ofcourse, this is their wonderboy.

[KainneAbsolute]

This will make more sense if one of the reasons would be saving the forsaken from eternal damnation. In that sense, she can say my people suffered as undead and this system condemned in the afterlife.