More toxic than ever.

[Efioanaes]

So im playing on and off since day one.
Used to play in a very good guild pushing content hard with a few realm first boss kills etc [ive grown up since and dont care for trivial stuff like that anymore] more power to those that do but its just not for me anymore, life is too busy for that.
These days im a lot more casual, no interest in raiding but do like to do mythics.
My guild have died off so im pugging content but my god is this game more toxic than ever.
Every single mythic run there are arguments, toxic abuse, really bad stuff not just blame game etc.
Its actually got to the stage where im questioning playing anymore as im holding my breath every time i join a mythic group, its just too stressful.
Maybe its a society thing but im not so sure as i play other games and few are this toxic.
Grow a thick skin you might say but ive grown a very thick one over the last 16 years but right now im finding it hard to log in anymore.

[kugarm]

Welcome to World of Warcraft in 2020.

[Zig Zug]

So im playing on and off since day one.
Used to play in a very good guild pushing content hard with a few realm first boss kills etc [ive grown up since and dont care for trivial stuff like that anymore] more power to those that do but its just not for me anymore, life is too busy for that.
These days im a lot more casual, no interest in raiding but do like to do mythics.
My guild have died off so im pugging content but my god is this game more toxic than ever.
Every single mythic run there are arguments, toxic abuse, really bad stuff not just blame game etc.
Its actually got to the stage where im questioning playing anymore as im holding my breath every time i join a mythic group, its just too stressful.
Maybe its a society thing but im not so sure as i play other games and few are this toxic.
Grow a thick skin you might say but ive grown a very thick one over the last 16 years but right now im finding it hard to log in anymore.

Join a guild.

Stop pugging.

Shouldn't stress out due to entertainment.

[Freedom]

Sounds like you're miserable, aren't getting any enjoyment out of the game anymore, and aren't having much if any fun. Holding your breath in anything but anticipation of a Mythic run sounds like a bad thing. And it sounds more like a human nature problem, or a fundamental nature of MMOs and anonymous internet problem, and not something Blizzard can fix. So quit - sounds like a good decision to me. What do you lose?

[themortalgod]

Idk if you just had bad experiences or what, but I haven't experienced the same. I mean toxicity in this community absolutely exists but I haven't noticed any real increase. If anything mythics have felt diminished, mostly because I think concepts like raider.io and min/max aren't really relevant yet. I pugged all 8 last week and didn't experience any toxicity whatsoever.

[loras]

So im playing on and off since day one.
Used to play in a very good guild pushing content hard with a few realm first boss kills etc [ive grown up since and dont care for trivial stuff like that anymore] more power to those that do but its just not for me anymore, life is too busy for that.
These days im a lot more casual, no interest in raiding but do like to do mythics.
My guild have died off so im pugging content but my god is this game more toxic than ever.
Every single mythic run there are arguments, toxic abuse, really bad stuff not just blame game etc.
Its actually got to the stage where im questioning playing anymore as im holding my breath every time i join a mythic group, its just too stressful.
Maybe its a society thing but im not so sure as i play other games and few are this toxic.
Grow a thick skin you might say but ive grown a very thick one over the last 16 years but right now im finding it hard to log in anymore.

The ignore list is your friend, otherwise just assume they're retarded until there's an indication otherwise.
That way you reduce pointless cpnversations, snd as in real life you can be honest with competent people so that things genuinely improve, however incompetent people (regarding in-game skills or otherwise) are best treated courteously, that way they'll shut up the quickest and be the least of a burden.

[BeepBoo]

Step 1 to successfully pugging: be on proper power
Step 2: be following the meta
Step 3: be good at the game and know what's going on

If everyone did those 3 things, there wouldn't be any toxicity because you wouldn't ever get randomly paired with scrubs who make things take 10x longer than they need to with their failness.

[Omedon]

So im playing on and off since day one.
Used to play in a very good guild pushing content hard with a few realm first boss kills etc [ive grown up since and dont care for trivial stuff like that anymore] more power to those that do but its just not for me anymore, life is too busy for that.
These days im a lot more casual, no interest in raiding but do like to do mythics.
My guild have died off so im pugging content but my god is this game more toxic than ever.
Every single mythic run there are arguments, toxic abuse, really bad stuff not just blame game etc.
Its actually got to the stage where im questioning playing anymore as im holding my breath every time i join a mythic group, its just too stressful.
Maybe its a society thing but im not so sure as i play other games and few are this toxic.
Grow a thick skin you might say but ive grown a very thick one over the last 16 years but right now im finding it hard to log in anymore.

Hi, I think I have identified at least part of your problem, and I sympathize because if I hadn't taken a moment to look around I might still be miserable. And I'm not for one very simple reason:

I'm not the player I was then, and this isn't the game that was then.

Now, dungeons and raids and the ambition that come with team content that is interdependant within the trinity, that you ideally run with friends or roll the dice and settle for PUGs... are all optional. Particularly in shadowlands.

The anima-powered casual endgame is a thing. It's a full time occupation. Torghast can be soloed or run with a friend or two. The Maw can be soloed. I rarely if ever feel compelled to do dungeons any more since world quests came out in Legion and I REALLY feel safe ignoring them now. Ask yourself: Do you love "Dungeons" or do you love "dungeons with friends/guildies?" If you don't have guildies or friends to play with at any given time, good news: WoW is, more than ever, built to entertain one player at a time, you just have to let go of all your fucks of other peoples' item levels in PVE content. Completely. Just stop caring that "another 1% damage is out there in M+." Just stop. Fill your plate full of content that fits your life, there's a lot of it right now, and consume your fill. I promise, it's a very busy and full life, as it's the life I've lived since legion, and the full, bustling life I'm living now!

Identify what you actually like, and how to get it. Know your limit, and play within it. You literally do not need a team to play this game any more. If you have one, there is content to enjoy, but if you don't... there is content to enjoy!

People will naysay this whole angle because "blaaaah competitiveness," but the thing about that narrative is it requires you to subscribe to it, to validate those that climb the pyramid, they need you to "feel that you're on a lower level." Fuck'em. Play for you. The game allows that now, emphatically and on purpose!

[Athredas]

Join a guild.

Stop pugging.

Shouldn't stress out due to entertainment.

This stuff happens in guilds too

[Frolk]

Join a guild.

Stop pugging.

Shouldn't stress out due to entertainment.

This should be stickied.

[bloodwulf]

While im in a massive guild (averages 300 members online between our two sister guilds and two alt guilds), i still like to pug occasionally. I do not have a negative experience to speak of in recent memory. Most of my experiences have been a lot of fun, especially running heroics the 2nd night and the entire pug learning as we go.

[Semune]

This is probably just a you problem, to be honest. If you focus on the negative, it'll be all that you see.

You probably just don't enjoy the game anymore. I'll echo what others say here and get a group of friends/guildies. I don't see toxicity unless someone does really really bad and doesn't do normal/heroic first to at least have some idea of fights. If they queue straight for mythic without even doing normal, they shouldn't be coddled anyway.

[Echo of Soul]

I've noticed this too. I'm very hesitant to play with people outside my guild because more often than not it's unpleasant. I have a hard time understanding why people can't just be decent to each other but hey at least Classic is a lot worse right?

[Efioanaes]

@ omedon That is an amazing post that I'm going to read over a few times more and really take it in and hopefully put it into practice if I give the game one final chance.

Thanks to all for responding , some great input.

[Riistov]

I've had none of these issues. I'm not saying they don't exist....but I'm doubtful you're experiencing this in every run.

Also, there are a TON of active guilds recruiting, you should definitely find one. You're really handicapping yourself by staying in a dead guild.

Playing with friends is going to resolve a ton of these issues.

[BeepBoo]

I've noticed this too. I'm very hesitant to play with people outside my guild because more often than not it's unpleasant. I have a hard time understanding why people can't just be decent to each other but hey at least Classic is a lot worse right?

Because people aren't in pugs/ matchmade teams to make friends, teach people, or carry people. They're there to get their fucking chores done as fast, efficiently, and smoothly as possible. If everyone has the requisite skill and gear? Great. Perfect. Nothing goes wrong. The issue is goods being randomly paired with bads and being forced to deal with that situation and the blunder it __ALWAYS__ turns out to be.

[Omedon]

@ omedon That is an amazing post that I'm going to read over a few times more and really take it in and hopefully put it into practice if I give the game one final chance.

Thanks to all for responding , some great input.

If you're an experienced player like me (I've been on and off since the beginning), and have been shaped by MMO "tradition," it's really an awakening experience to look at the game and say "wait... do I... Need dungeons? At all? I don't? Really?" The first crack in that reality came with world quests, which not-so-coincidentally came at the same time M+ came out. They knew what they were doing: they kicked a degree of casual enjoyment out of dungeons, forever, and so they put that casual enjoyment AND even a sense of gear progresstion somewhere else: World Quests. This continued in BFA where I think I can count on one hand the number of dungeons I ran. Like at all, I don't do non-queued content. Like I still don't know the mechanics of most BFA dungeons because I disliked them enough to just.. nope out for a whole expansion. And I don't feel I missed a thing. That's huge.

Fast forward to now. I did some dungeons for XP and to feel out mechanics, and I confirmed dungeons are still being built to be super gimmicky and "fun to watch for the MDI." So I'm noping out again. Every covenant sanctum activity I've seen so far lists dungeons among a list of options. They are, so far, largely optional.

Even the biggest champions of the "upper endgame" are singing the praises of the "optional endgame" and it's broadness over tallness. This isn't a "raid or die" or even a "dungeon or die" game any more. It was for a long time, and that's how impressions get formed, but breaking those impressions to fit the game we actually have now is liberating beyond words, I promise! Especially now!

If there's one thing I would bet the farm on, it's that WoW will always, ALWAYS provide an enjoyable and robust "one player at a time" game as the MMO genre ages and the novelty of the internet fades away more and more. Shadowlands is an online RPG with all the MMORPG features bolted on because people like that stuff, and have a right to expect it to be supported.

This is your game now, not your guilds'. You can share it with your guild and your friends... but it's your game now. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, and don't feel the need to put your time in the hands of people that aren't incentivized to overcome the absence of internet novelty to be nicer than their baser instincts will motivate. Play with friends, or play alone, both are highly supported, and playing with strangers can only be sweetened so far. The community is the one variable WoW can't control, but thankfully relying on strangers is not even remotely mandatory! That's not by accident!

[Efioanaes]

If you're an experienced player like me (I've been on and off since the beginning), and have been shaped by MMO "tradition," it's really an awakening experience to look at the game and say "wait... do I... Need dungeons? At all? I don't? Really?" The first crack in that reality came with world quests, which not-so-coincidentally came at the same time M+ came out. They knew what they were doing: they kicked a degree of casual enjoyment out of dungeons, forever, and so they put that casual enjoyment AND even a sense of gear progresstion somewhere else: World Quests. This continued in BFA where I think I can count on one hand the number of dungeons I ran. Like at all, I don't do non-queued content. Like I still don't know the mechanics of most BFA dungeons because I disliked them enough to just.. nope out for a whole expansion. And I don't feel I missed a thing. That's huge.

Fast forward to now. I did some dungeons for XP and to feel out mechanics, and I confirmed dungeons are still being built to be super gimmicky and "fun to watch for the MDI." So I'm noping out again. Every covenant sanctum activity I've seen so far lists dungeons among a list of options. They are, so far, largely optional.

Even the biggest champions of the "upper endgame" are singing the praises of the "optional endgame" and it's broadness over tallness. This isn't a "raid or die" or even a "dungeon or die" game any more. It was for a long time, and that's how impressions get formed, but breaking those impressions to fit the game we actually have now is liberating beyond words, I promise! Especially now!

If there's one thing I would bet the farm on, it's that WoW will always, ALWAYS provide an enjoyable and robust "one player at a time" game as the MMO genre ages and the novelty of the internet fades away more and more. Shadowlands is an online RPG with all the MMORPG features bolted on because people like that stuff, and have a right to expect it to be supported.

This is your game now, not your guilds'. You can share it with your guild and your friends... but it's your game now. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, and don't feel the need to put your time in the hands of people that aren't incentivized to overcome the absence of internet novelty to be nicer than their baser instincts will motivate. Play with friends, or play alone, both are highly supported, and playing with strangers can only be sweetened so far. The community is the one variable WoW can't control, but thankfully relying on strangers is not even remotely mandatory! That's not by accident!

Sounds great but world quest rewards are not as good as mythic dungeons from what I see.
If I didn't run some mythics I wouldn't have ilvl 172 I believe?

[oblakoff]

Done 16 mythics so far.

8 each week. All of them completed successfully. Every single one with different PuG group, found from the tool. Literally not a single one had toxic attitude from anyone, despite few wipes.

[oldgeezer]

I've been playing the game essentially solo since Pandaria, and zero regrets. Despite what people may tell you, WoW is one of the better single player games out there, especially if you want to chill out for 30 minutes or so. It's even easier now than it's ever been for solo players.