absolutely worthless now

[Zig Zug]

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

LOL - doubt.

Link your armory.

(Not that I doubt you have gear, rather, your self-assessment of your skill is probably too generous.)

[Ezyah]

not a very good troll

[Sableye]

even if this were true there are other classes to pick from. you're not locked to one class from the start of WoW

[Isilrien]

Find it hard to believe, but sure we're still very early on. I find that I do very, very low dmg and my pet dies in almost every fight.

I'm not having the same experience as you at all, so not sure what to say.

[xStevooo]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

I am doing nearly triple the damage of all other classes in dungeons i run, complete all content very easily (wq/maw/tower/quests/pvp) and have zero issues with pet. If i am doing a WQ i will pull 2/3 mobs a time and when my covenant AOE is up then i pull 10+. This was all with pretty low/average gear (140ish), I am now 165 ilvl and it's easy mode.

Not sure what you are doing wrong.

[ClassicPeon]

I am doing nearly triple the damage of all other classes in dungeons i run, complete all content very easily (wq/maw/tower/quests/pvp) and have zero issues with pet. If i am doing a WQ i will pull 2/3 mobs a time and when my covenant AOE is up then i pull 10+. This was all with pretty low/average gear (140ish), I am now 165 ilvl and it's easy mode.

Not sure what you are doing wrong.

Mhm you arent pulling tripple damage of anyone in heroics with 165 ilvl. Unless they are afk.

[gaymer77]

LOL - doubt.

Link your armory.

(Not that I doubt you have gear, rather, your self-assessment of your skill is probably too generous.)

I'm sure what he's referring to is Ballista of Buried Kings which isn't exactly BIS as its haste & mastery instead of haste & crit (mastery being the WORST stat for BM hunters) but it currently is the highest item level bow/gun/crossbow in the game currently and its BOE which is probably why he bought it off the AH and says its BIS.

[Matsumotto]

I started as a feral and did some BGs and arena skirmishes just for fun. There is no balance in PvP. 8/10 teams had a rogue in, those guys are killing machines. Spriests and mages are so squishy but if i don't kill them in one stun, i'm dead.
Overall, anyone without a crazy 90% damage reduction or immunity can be killed REALLY fast, it's basically like a turn based game where if you have immunity you're pretty much set up to win, lol.
Oh and before you ask, i'm talking about your average PvP, not high skilled arenas, but even there i can see things being terribly unbalanced.

[Licketysplit77]

No offense taken. Been playing hunt since 2005, BM hunt almost exclusively since 2012. I know the spec, I know all the tricks, possibly it's very gear dependent but right now i'm getting raped at most encounters.

Again a very positive experience myself and my guildies too, never seen any complaints about BM hunter this xpac.

You say you know the spec inside out and played since 2005.
Thats 15 years on a Hunter, can you link Cutting edge? can you link PVP 2700? etc

[xStevooo]

Mhm you arent pulling tripple damage of anyone in heroics with 165 ilvl. Unless they are afk.

I don't remember asking you for your opinion? All DPS I have ran with average out around 1.5-2k dps.

[TrollHunter3000]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

bruh if you struggle doing WQs I don't think the problem is the class.

[marulol]

So here's the most recent simulation from Simcraft: https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html

As you can see, MM is doing about 3.6% more dps than BM. It's a very minor difference. On my hunter alt I've personally encountered no issues, but I also significantly outgear you (around 175 ilvl). Although 154 vs 175 doesn't seem like a lot, in Blizzard terms that is a rather large gulf. At ~150 ilvl you'll struggle to break 1k sustained while at ~175 you're easily above ~2.5k sustained.

Idk if you're still playing with Pre-Legion mindset, but weapons and their contributions to your damage were standardized in Legion. It's hardly more than a stat stick. It 'feels' good to upgrade it, but in terms of raw impact to your dps, a +10 ilvl weapon is less impactful than a +15 to your chest slot. Trinkets are where it really can make a difference too. If you've been unlucky and have ~130 ilvl trinkets, your dps could be very poor. A 155 hunter with 171 trinkets vs. another hunter with the same ilvl but ~130 trinkets would be notably stronger. So the 190 weapon you bought is on par with any other 190. Would have been wiser to buy a 190 armor piece or two and a darkmoon trinket.

You're not willing to share armory, conduits, soulbinds, covenant, or anything else that we can use to diagnose your character's issues. Suffice to say, it genuinely is a you issue. Logs and simulations do not lie, BM is only *slightly* behind MM. Warriors, monks, feral druids, warlocks, mages, elemental shamans, and paladins are all around or below BM and none of those are having issues with the content. If anything your ability to have a pet tank and AoE/Cleave your enemies make BM outstanding in the open field. My druid, which has better gear/powers, can't do world quests, torghast, or the maw with the same speed as my hunter.

This isn't entirely true. Weapon dps is by far the biggest upgrade you can get in terms of dps boost. Not sure where you get your info from saying a 15 stat chest is better than 10 ilvls. It also depends on the class. yes some classes depend more on the weapon than others but not all.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sure what he's referring to is Ballista of Buried Kings which isn't exactly BIS as its haste & mastery instead of haste & crit (mastery being the WORST stat for BM hunters) but it currently is the highest item level bow/gun/crossbow in the game currently and its BOE which is probably why he bought it off the AH and says its BIS.

it really doesn't matter at this point. Secondary stats are all very close to each other and 9 times out of 10 the higher ilvl item wins. Main stat is just too good to pass up at this point. I just did a sim of my MM hunter and Agility was DOUBLE the effectiveness of any of the other secondary stats, with those all being within 1% of each other.

[Redzonetode]

first time playing BM Hunter

in mythics I'm usually first or not far behind for AoE (although paladins usually take the cake with their insane divine storm damage). i usually win out on bosses just slightly (I imagine this is due to being able to do my rotation and dodge mechanics more than anything)

i solo'd a 600k rare in the Maw whilst using mend pet on cool down. i havent struggled with a single world quest

i'm definitely not as strong in pvp as a marksmanship hunter but i dont feel weak, just not as op as rogues/mm hunters and maybe feral druids who seem to have crazy burst too.

fyi im 179 ilvl, but I havent felt weak at any point through the process of gearing up

i did want to switch to MM but the rotation didnt feel as good, and I really appreciate being able to run around and do my rotation at the same time

[Kumorii]

Oh boy this was a fun thread.
Been a long while since I saw someone in such denial.

Hopefully he looked at guides even though he seemed to proud to admit he needed to.

[Nythiz]

overall though it doesnt change the point that I do feel very weak as BM hunter, which I rarely ever did.

That's merely the effect of the transition from 8.3 to 9.0

BM was one of the best performing and best flowing specs in 8.3 and fell down quite hard.
BM scaled insanely good off secondary stats, that's mostly gone. Going from 30%+ crit/haste to sub-20% of those really really hurts the flow as your Wild Call procs extremely rare now.

Everything is slowed down A LOT. This is again very noticeable on BM as you will have a lot of downtime, just waiting and doing nothing. This feels really bad to some people and makes it FEEL like you do no damage. Especially since only a few weeks ago we could spam away every free GCD we had on cobra shots and barbed shots.

But this is how it is every expansion. They have to bring us down to this level, otherwise we can't climb back up.
Basically you now have BM in it's "worst form", it'll get better from here.

[gaymer77]

it really doesn't matter at this point. Secondary stats are all very close to each other and 9 times out of 10 the higher ilvl item wins. Main stat is just too good to pass up at this point. I just did a sim of my MM hunter and Agility was DOUBLE the effectiveness of any of the other secondary stats, with those all being within 1% of each other.

I guess you don't understand what the term BIS means then. BIS means that it is the best piece for your class based on damage, stats on it, and item level. The fact that on Tuesday there will be 2 different guns released that are item level 200 (haste/mastery stats) and 207 (crit/vers stats) mean that this gun is NOT a hunter's BIS and I believe the week after that the raid finder first wing opens up which may or may not have a weapon choice too with the same stats as the normal raid but at an item level of 187/194 instead. This crossbow he's referring to is not better than even the raid finder weapons for BM hunters.

[FelPlague]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

1. MM are literally 1 shotting people in wpvp, you are doing something wrong
2. BM is one of the best specs right now, their tar trap legendary is insane and thats just... gross
3. hunter is fine, actually better then fine, maybe stop trying to fight people while you have rez sickness on

[Qnubi]

I don't remember asking you for your opinion? All DPS I have ran with average out around 1.5-2k dps.

2k DPS overall? Sounds like you are running with 4 tanks and 1 healer if the other average around 2k.

[Nythiz]

I guess you don't understand what the term BIS means then. BIS means that it is the best piece for your class based on damage, stats on it, and item level. The fact that on Tuesday there will be 2 different guns released that are item level 200 (haste/mastery stats) and 207 (crit/vers stats) mean that this gun is NOT a hunter's BIS and I believe the week after that the raid finder first wing opens up which may or may not have a weapon choice too with the same stats as the normal raid but at an item level of 187/194 instead. This crossbow he's referring to is not better than even the raid finder weapons for BM hunters.

At this point it's the BiS weapon though.
You can talk about better weapons coming up in the (very short) future, but the ballista is currently BiS for MM.

If you want to bring in future weapons there will never be a BiS, because the heroic weapon will be outdone by the mythic weapon. and the mythic weapon will be outdone by the patch 9.1 weapons, and those by the 9.2 weapons, etc.

[Mirishka]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

Its hard to dig through all the hyperbole, but it sounds like you need to brush up on BM. Because it is anything but weak in SL.