Shadowlands: Rapidly Climbing the Ladder in Popularity

[Echo of Soul]

You can't sustain a business model not developing content for casuals.

I think that they realized that and that's why we're getting mawforged gear in 9.1. No matter what level you play the game at chances are that you want to work on your gear in the long term since WoW is a RPG and that's one of the core things you do in a RPG.

[kaminaris]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the big problem with WoD wasn't that what we got was bad per se. There was just not enough that we got.

If you dissect WoD to small pieces you would realize that it had potential. It was salvageable and could have been promising (if not for cut content like cities). However where it failed miserably was the garrison that was suppose to be place where players can express themselves. Instead it turned out to be a parking spot with freebies and you can't express shit in there.

Gameplay loop wasn't fundamentally flawed. Garrison was. Just the cut content was severe and in the end blizzard just gave up on it.

SL on the other hand cannot be redeemed at this point. Gameplay loop is fundamentally flawed (thanks to lack of TF, lack of bonus rolls, master loot AND weekly bingo lottery being centric source of gear).
In the end no matter how much stuff they pack in, if you don't enjoy playing the game, none of it will matter.

Good example is Maw zone, people complained they couldn't mount in there but... why would I ever WANT TO EVEN BE THERE?

[Pheraz]

I disagree. BfA was absolutely not worse than WoD because you didn't immediately run out of stuff to do in BfA like you did in WoD.

Absolutely. The worst part was the Sylvanas perma videos. The rest was nice, especially for casuals. Not as good as Legion, but still on my top 3 list. SL is still better than WoD but imo a good portion worst than Bfa and Legion

I lol every time this thread gets bumped

[Very rare pepe]

So, yeah, upshot is I agree that SL is actually worse than WoD. It's finally driven me and my wife from the game and I don't see anything happening with the design to ever bring us back.

Kinda similar for me, BFA wasn't great but I was willing to give the game another shot, by the end of my 2nd month sub after launch there was no way I was ever coming back to the game now, I just don't feel like the game is being made for me to have fun.

[Wangming]

If you dissect WoD to small pieces you would realize that it had potential. It was salvageable and could have been promising (if not for cut content like cities). However where it failed miserably was the garrison that was suppose to be place where players can express themselves. Instead it turned out to be a parking spot with freebies and you can't express shit in there.

Gameplay loop wasn't fundamentally flawed. Garrison was. Just the cut content was severe and in the end blizzard just gave up on it.

SL on the other hand cannot be redeemed at this point. Gameplay loop is fundamentally flawed (thanks to lack of TF, lack of bonus rolls, master loot AND weekly bingo lottery being centric source of gear).
In the end no matter how much stuff they pack in, if you don't enjoy playing the game, none of it will matter.

Good example is Maw zone, people complained they couldn't mount in there but... why would I ever WANT TO EVEN BE THERE?

I would argue not even Garrisons were fundamentall flawed. Give us multiple architectural styles to choose from and it already works much better.
As for why you want to be in the Maw? Why you even want to be in the Shadowlands? To rescue the blandest characters in the story? I would gladly let them rot there and flesh out everyone else instead.

[Soikona]

Calls others trolls.

States that WoD was "great".

Hmmm...

Having a different opinion doesn’t make you a troll. I really enjoyed WoD, fantastic expansion for a raider.

[Osmeric]

I think that they realized that and that's why we're getting mawforged gear in 9.1.

I giggled at this. "Oh no, the casuals have left. I know! Mawforging will save everything!"

No, at this point, with the WildStarification of WoW, the devs have well-demonstrated they despise casual players. The only thing that brings the casuals back is these devs' heads on figurative pikes.

[Farora]

Our only hope for a good Wow is either Classic or maybe Mike Morhaimes new company makes a new MMORPG.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I would argue not even Garrisons were fundamentall flawed. Give us multiple architectural styles to choose from and it already works much better.
As for why you want to be in the Maw? Why you even want to be in the Shadowlands? To rescue the blandest characters in the story? I would gladly let them rot there and flesh out everyone else instead.

You know, thinking about it, I guess you are right. They could kill anyone of Jaina, Thrall, Bane, Anduin, Sylvanas, Tyrande and I probably wouldn't even care.. Most of them being the major characters of the franchise paints a dire picture that something somewhere went terribly wrong. As a DK I would have probably cared alot more if they had at least kidnapped Bolvar..

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Our only hope for a good Wow is either Classic or maybe Mike Morhaimes new company makes a new MMORPG.

Yea.. no. Someone just making a new big MMORPG ain't happening.

[Soon-TM]

Having a different opinion doesn’t make you a troll. I really enjoyed WoD, fantastic expansion for a raider.

For a hardcore raider, you mean, pretty much everything else was utter dog@#$&. Much like SL, go figure...

[Glorious Leader]

I think that they realized that and that's why we're getting mawforged gear in 9.1. No matter what level you play the game at chances are that you want to work on your gear in the long term since WoW is a RPG and that's one of the core things you do in a RPG.

This was more or less the same mistake they made in WoD. Terrible reward engineering for everyone outside the raid. Why they just had to make this same mistake again is unsure. I'm not convinced mawsworn gear is enough to be perfectly honest with you Basically when you start hearing some people complain about "mandatory" non raid content then you'll know they're providing casuals with more

[Wangming]

You know, thinking about it, I guess you are right. They could kill anyone of Jaina, Thrall, Bane, Anduin, Sylvanas, Tyrande and I probably wouldn't even care.. Most of them being the major characters of the franchise paints a dire picture that something somewhere went terribly wrong. As a DK I would have probably cared alot more if they had at least kidnapped Bolvar..

If I were to guess the problem is that they are still the main characters. They lacked either the will or the ability to make a fresh cast of interesting main characters. It is true that FFXIV suffers from a similar problem but at least the main characters are still kinda interesting. And there is a hope that at least some of them will die in Endwalker. But here? Chances are, we won't even be rid of Sylvanas.

[Soon-TM]

You know, thinking about it, I guess you are right. They could kill anyone of Jaina, Thrall, Bane, Anduin, Sylvanas, Tyrande and I probably wouldn't even care.. Most of them being the major characters of the franchise paints a dire picture that something somewhere went terribly wrong.

The problem is that all those characters aren't proper individuals, with their distinctive traits and personalities, they have become nothing but carbon copies of Anduin. Even Sylvanas is nothing but an Anduin in reverse, so to speak.

And don't make me remember Tyrande and the whole Limp Warrior story...

[Sanguinerd]

You know, thinking about it, I guess you are right. They could kill anyone of Jaina, Thrall, Bane, Anduin, Sylvanas, Tyrande and I probably wouldn't even care.. Most of them being the major characters of the franchise paints a dire picture that something somewhere went terribly wrong. As a DK I would have probably cared alot more if they had at least kidnapped Bolvar..

Had they killed any of those there would atleast be a reason to go into the Shadowlands.. now we're just there because we don't have a choice.

You get summoned to SW/Org and hear what Sylvanas has done and they just assume you care, but honestly I didn't then and I don't now. The entire Shadowlands story so far has been uninteresting and hardly worth my characters time.

Meanwhile the leaders stand around to see you off, "Bring our people home" Genn says... well how about you come and help old man?

And now that we have rescued most of them they just sit around doing fuck all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Accendor]

I think that they realized that and that's why we're getting mawforged gear in 9.1. No matter what level you play the game at chances are that you want to work on your gear in the long term since WoW is a RPG and that's one of the core things you do in a RPG.

We get mawforged gear, because we slmost always got catchup gear. Unfortunately.

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For a hardcore raider, you mean, pretty much everything else was utter dog@#$&. Much like SL, go figure...

No, it was also dogshit for hardcore raiders. It was nit as bad as it was for everyone else, but it was still shit.

[Zolaris192]

i'm done with the weekly checklist, until they sandbox this game and let it be a game rather than a chore i'm not coming back

[Soikona]

For a hardcore raider, you mean, pretty much everything else was utter dog@#$&. Much like SL, go figure...

Not sure what SL has in relation to you calling someone a troll because they have a different opinion but ok…

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i'm done with the weekly checklist, until they sandbox this game and let it be a game rather than a chore i'm not coming back

I agree with this. I miss patch/expansion checklists like before Legion. Now, it’s constant weekly, and if I miss a week or two I am now behind while previously if I finished gearing I could take a break for a week or two and not be behind. I am more burnt out since Legion than I have been for every expansion before hand.

[Cosmic Janitor]

If I were to guess the problem is that they are still the main characters. They lacked either the will or the ability to make a fresh cast of interesting main characters. It is true that FFXIV suffers from a similar problem but at least the main characters are still kinda interesting. And there is a hope that at least some of them will die in Endwalker. But here? Chances are, we won't even be rid of Sylvanas.

I don't think killing them is neccessary, but I'm still infinitely more interested in the fate of the twins (despite disliking them) than anyone in the main cast of WoW.

[Accendor]

Not sure what SL has in relation to you calling someone a troll because they have a different opinion but ok…

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I agree with this. I miss patch/expansion checklists like before Legion. Now, it’s constant weekly, and if I miss a week or two I am now behind while previously if I finished gearing I could take a break for a week or two and not be behind. I am more burnt out since Legion than I have been for every expansion before hand.

Sorry but where exactly is that the case in SL except for the first 4 weeks when you build your legendary?

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

This was more or less the same mistake they made in WoD. Terrible reward engineering for everyone outside the raid. Why they just had to make this same mistake again is unsure. I'm not convinced mawsworn gear is enough to be perfectly honest with you Basically when you start hearing some people complain about "mandatory" non raid content then you'll know they're providing casuals with more

I wish they would ignore the stupid "mandatory" mentality and just make a wide range of viable progression options people can do that they enjoy. Do you want to get your gear via professions? Sure! World quests? M+? Raids? PvP? Torghast? Go for it! You don't want to do the other content to get better gear? Then fucking don't.