Solution for M+ leavers....

[Rusken]

And then he could've just gone afk and waited for you to leave instead.

Or what if it was agreed to that you'd stop trying to complete the key and just HS'd out. How is the game supposed to know the difference between that and a leaver?
Or someone HS'ing out to repair if you have a warlock to summon back?

You can't automate a system like that.

I'd also apply the debuff to anyone who /afk times out while inside the instance.

There could be checks in place. Something like if the whole group has left the instance then disbands, no debuffs are given. If one person hearths out and leaves the group they get the debuff. Hearthing out and NOT leaving the group (in the case that no one has a repair mount or jeeves) only gives the debuff after 5-10 minutes.
You could get a 5 minute debuff that simply says "Not returning to your current dungeon will afflict you with Coward's Demise, preventing you from attempting more Mythic+ until tomorrow." Giving you plenty of time to find a repair and get your summon back (although who doesn't have at least the Traveller's Mammoth at this point?)

I think it could be automated, very similarly to BG deserter just a longer version of it.

The biggest issue I can see with my idea is how to handle someone being removed by the group leader since M+ is all manually formed groups. Since kicking someone from the group would technically flag them as a deserter after they got ported, there would have to be something in place to prevent 4 assholes inviting some random and then just kicking them to give them the debuff. The voting system wouldn't work as it's too easily exploitable by said 4 assholes. Not too sure how to fix that, but I don't think it would be prevalent enough to just continue ignoring the problem of people leaving keys and wasting the whole group's time/consumables.

[Relapses]

I'd also apply the debuff to anyone who /afk times out while inside the instance.

There could be checks in place. Something like if the whole group has left the instance then disbands, no debuffs are given. If one person hearths out and leaves the group they get the debuff. Hearthing out and NOT leaving the group (in the case that no one has a repair mount or jeeves) only gives the debuff after 5-10 minutes.
You could get a 5 minute debuff that simply says "Not returning to your current dungeon will afflict you with Coward's Demise, preventing you from attempting more Mythic+ until tomorrow." Giving you plenty of time to find a repair and get your summon back (although who doesn't have at least the Traveller's Mammoth at this point?)

I think it could be automated, very similarly to BG deserter just a longer version of it.

The biggest issue I can see with my idea is how to handle someone being removed by the group leader since M+ is all manually formed groups. Since kicking someone from the group would technically flag them as a deserter after they got ported, there would have to be something in place to prevent 4 assholes inviting some random and then just kicking them to give them the debuff. The voting system wouldn't work as it's too easily exploitable by said 4 assholes. Not too sure how to fix that, but I don't think it would be prevalent enough to just continue ignoring the problem of people leaving keys and wasting the whole group's time/consumables.

The fact that you have to set up so many rules is the reason why this is a bad idea.

[God Save The King]

I always get a key with level -1 from last weeks highest level from the vault.

Then you failed to time your highest key last week.

If your top key was a +13 that you failed, you get a +12.

If your top key was a +9 that you timed, you get a +9.

[Kaver]

99% of bad stories in here are based on pugging. People should really just realize that pugging is utter shit.

[Baroclinic]

Then you failed to time your highest key last week.

If your top key was a +13 that you failed, you get a +12.

If your top key was a +9 that you timed, you get a +9.

This something new or bs? Last two expansions, I get 1 lower then completed no matter if successful or not. Unless it has to be "your" key.

[glowpipe]

Any punishment they add can be abused so innocent players might get fucked by shithead players.
There is no easy fix for this or they would have implemented it ages ago.

[Sámsa]

Then you failed to time your highest key last week.

If your top key was a +13 that you failed, you get a +12.

If your top key was a +9 that you timed, you get a +9.

No I did not fail to time my top key and still got -1.
Last week I did a 12 +2 and got a 11. the Week before I timed a 10 and got a 9.

[Velshin]

What the fuck are you talking about?...

On topic:
- if this is happening every time you pug a player maybe start to think if your group is hostile to guests
- if this happened just one time maybe get over it, shit happens

There is no sensible way to deal out automatic penalties to manual groups anyway. And having every complaint looked at in a timely manner by a human referee, not gonna happen either.

I never said it is happening everytime and we are never hostile toward other stranger players at all usually we are playing without saying anything jus hi and thank you stuff and gz.

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99% of bad stories in here are based on pugging. People should really just realize that pugging is utter shit.

You think after playing for many years since 2004 you think I dont know that?

but yeah sometimes I will have no choice when the guild is busy doing other stuff and my friend list people also busy or most of them being offline and we only needed one last spot to complete the group.

[markos82]

It can be fixed by adding information next to te player when he queues.
For example, if the player leaves, fake dc, dc or just leaves group he gets flagged and now has additional information like: player xxx left : 1 group and so on. Also they can add if the player left the party ( didn't got kicked except if the player is offline) and timer ran out the group can invite pleyer to replace him ( can't be more then one).

[Azerate]

There has to be a solution for players like that who are purposely ruining other players keys...

Except from that story it doesn't seem he ruined anything on purpose at all.

You sound like one of those assholes who insult less skilled players for intentional griefing while they are just not as good probably.

And the best solution for leavers in m+ is just running with people you know. If you want to pug, be ready to have leavers from time to time. Especially when you tank a key at first boss...why is this even an issue at this point? If he bailed on you after 1hour of the dungeon that would be an issue maybe. If it's 1 minutes in, it's not even that much time wasted

[araine]

Raider IO just shows what people completed.

What we need is like Yelp reviews for players.

the problem is leaving and not finishing the key makes it look better on your io than finishing it 15min over the timer. the key issue here is raider.io that is what created the bad behavior

[DarkBlade6]

community players review system

or buff the remaining players when someone leave (doesn't help if a tank/healer leave though)

[Velshin]

Except from that story it doesn't seem he ruined anything on purpose at all.

You sound like one of those assholes who insult less skilled players for intentional griefing while they are just not as good probably.

And the best solution for leavers in m+ is just running with people you know. If you want to pug, be ready to have leavers from time to time. Especially when you tank a key at first boss...why is this even an issue at this point? If he bailed on you after 1hour of the dungeon that would be an issue maybe. If it's 1 minutes in, it's not even that much time wasted

Oh being judgemental and jumping to conclusion here are we?

I told you the entire story from start to finish I didnt insult him even after he left I just logged out afterward shortly after our group disbanded. First death he apologized then no one said anything then be kept dying and dying over three times then he himself said "fk this" then left.


So I ask you a question and I want you to answer me honest ok? how the fuck is that even my fault and what makes you think that I somehow purposley insulted him? I mean really? are you serious?

[Merlunie]

Sometimes it's just better to leave. There is a difference between just depleted key you choose to finish and party of pepegas crashing against brick wall of their own shit.

Ding ding ding.

Anyone pushing high keys should know that if you wipe especially on a week like this the key is ripped and to just move on.

Notably, Halls of Atonement second boss and second boss in Necrotic Wake. Lust, prideful, and spears used on the first pull. If you don’t get it there it’s pretty much GG for the key.

[LoLcano]

Ding ding ding.

Anyone pushing high keys should know that if you wipe especially on a week like this the key is ripped and to just move on.

Notably, Halls of Atonement second boss and second boss in Necrotic Wake. Lust, prideful, and spears used on the first pull. If you don’t get it there it’s pretty much GG for the key.

Pretty much this ..also first boss of SD on tyrnical , if u cant kill it with pride and lust u cant kill it ever .

[Gasparde]

If there were something we'd have it.
Evidently shown by the forced Perso loot change, Blizzard isn't afraid to fuck over quite a huge portion of the playerbase just to protect another portion from themselves. Since nothing has been done in this regard... ever... it's likely that they're not willing to deal with the downsides any supposed change would pose.

[Twdft]

the problem is leaving and not finishing the key makes it look better on your io than finishing it 15min over the timer. the key issue here is raider.io that is what created the bad behavior

I never understand this argument. To see depleted runs not only do you have to go to the website, you'll have to open the history for the dungeon to even see it because depleted runs don't show up in the "recent runs" section.

Depleted runs will only show up on the page without clicking through when they are the highest you have done in that dungeon. And to be honest what's wrong with that, if it was the highest level you'll ever done in a dungeon why expect it to be timed.

[Majerin]

I think people are looking at things from a small sample size perspective. If raiderio or the blizzard internal tracker can identify disconnects and leaves, innocent disconnects are not a major concern. All that would matter is a pattern. Someone who does 20 keys a week and disconnects from a key once per week would have an issue in 5% of their keys, barely something that's relevant. Someone who runs 20 keys and either leaves or disconnects in, say, 30-50%? That would certainly warrant a flag and a little popup identifying them as a frequent leaver. The much bigger issue would be tracking something like hearthstoning via raider.io, which I am honestly unsure how to resolve. However I would have to imagine that would be an unlikely risk, considering they would be wasting their own time just as much as everyone else's.

Lastly, I think the concern for false positives are overstated. The question blizzard has to answer is the same one riot games had to answer this past year: at what point does the lack of consequences overcome the fear of false positives (for frame of reference, Riot finally added realistic penalties for ruining games in this past year with a new automated system after years of increasingly horrid behavior because people realized there was no penalty system in place). Personally, I think a rate of 1-5% of false positives is more than reasonable especially when considered from the same sample size perspective. You get caught in one false positive, okay, you cannot m+ for a day or 48 hours or however long the first time penalty is. If you're being caught repeatedly in false positives that leads to the conclusion you're doing something to draw the system.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The worse is when you need to pug a tank. They pretty much get to fuck over any key and face zero question on anything or they bounce.

[Nite92]

community players review system

or buff the remaining players when someone leave (doesn't help if a tank/healer leave though)

Doesn't work. It turns into a popularity contest..

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That is the very last thing this game needs...

I have another idea: Make M+ cost a fixed amount of gold for each participant to enter the dungeon. The higher the key, the higher the fee. You get all gold back on completition and then some.

Uhm no ty. I would like to be able to leave after an advertised +2 turns into a wipe fest.