How to make old content relevant

[Razion]

My only problem with this is that during new expansions a legacy raid would feel like more of a chore to go to than dungeons for your average M+.

The traveling is more forgivable when they're really rare Timewalking Raids you don't do as often and the rewards are greater, but if the rewards are going to go down to just dungeon mythic level (especially during a time of less dungeon loot in general) and come up as frequently via Keystones during the M+ season it feels like the Dungeon Finder teleportation to dungeon would be necessary to make doing them feel like less of a chore. (Like how they did the Molten Core anniversary, which I liked.)

Some legacy raids like Ulduar where there's just so much running around may also be kind of annoying in that regard. If you teleported to say just the first boss instantly in those kinds of cases that would be nice.

I feel like some raids like Onyxia and Malygos and Ruby Sanctum and Sartharion are really short comparatively and I would fear longer raid wings would be seen as chores or not worth running or dead keys by the community.

It would be cool to see the legacy raid hard modes turned into extra difficult switches when on Mythic - that might be wild.

[Aphrel]

The timewalking feature could get some love tbh. Currently its a pretty irrelevant part of the game. Perhaps timewalking should become a weekly thing. One timewalking raid per week, and one epxanisons set of dungs per week. And implemented into thegreat vault reward structure or something.



Another possible way would be to apply the m+ system to all the dungs.

Already now theres no reason why the couldnt scale up the bfa and legion dungs to work in shadowlands aswell.

It could be like a mid expansion thing like flying is where all the old dungs gets added to the active m+ pool. For the older dungeons pre legion it would be some work but they could take it in strides, 1 dung at a time. eventually theyd all be updated.

Nothing out of the box about this but i think it could work nicely.

[Logwyn]

Could make the story go back to that raid for some reason. Alter it a little or just have two or three bosses maybe. Not like you clear something and then years later it sits empty. Someone will more into Ony's lair.

[Daedius]

A lot of people stop playing if they get overwhelmed with 'content'... like those single player open world games, people get side tracked so much they get bored eventually never finishing the game.

Better if it was selective, and not all, like what they did with Karazhan.

[Feindy]

isnt that what timewalking is for?

[nocturnus]

I'm sorry but that's naive to think that way. They're 100+ dungeons in the game right now. Balancing every dungeon to make them all somewhat relevant is an impossible task.

This is exactly why I told another guy in this thread that replying to each other's posts without actually reading them is pointless. We can't possibly have a productive conversation this way.

I never said I wanted redux of all old dungeons; I didn't even mention dungeons. I said that it would be cool if they picked one or two old, but epic raids, split those into wings and turn those [wings] into full fledged dungeons. Converting every dungeon isn't just a monumental task, it's pointless.

I hate to be that guy, but maybe it's not exactly your kind of game ? By design, an MMO ask for some kind of commitment, because of the grind, because of the ever evolving content and narrative. You can't just "pick-up" the game and do whatever you want

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you're living in the past, buddy. Wow hasn't been the game you're describing in a very, very long time. Most people play the game casually and most new mechanics are designed around this casual approach; M+ is pick-up and play, Torghast is pick-up and play, catch-up mechanics are implemented, the only thing that requires commitment is raiding beyond heroic, which an extremely small percentage of the population actually does.

Wow is a game designed for a casual audience with a hardcore niche.

If you are about to make old raids into "fresh" content, i would much rather prefer they just took their time to make new dungeons instead of experimenting within properly the most important content system they have in the game atm.

Of course! I would like to have new dungeon on a regular basis as well. But considering Blizzard's track record, I think it's safe to assume that's not going to happen; designing new dungeons is just a lot of work.

No thanks. I've done all that already.
I want new stuff, no re-gridning the same old stuff over and over again.

Grinding? Do tell, who's forcing you to grind anything?

If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I know why people struggle with this, it's imbedded very deeply right there where addictions are. No, I'm not mocking you or trying to be mean, far from it. I'm being bloody serious. Do yourself a favour and let that go, buddy. You don't have to do anything you don't enjoy and being against more content out of fear that you'll have to grind even more, suggests there's a problem

Better if it was selective, and not all, like what they did with Karazhan.

Agreed; not all.

They could start with SSC, for example. Split that raid into a few epic dungeons with updated mechanics, loot and tier 5 dungeon sets. Then do BT and every few months pick a new raid to rework.

I think it would be epic.

isnt that what timewalking is for?

I've never done timewalking raids. Are they any good? (read: fun) How are the rewards? Is the loot relevant, or low ilvl trash like the TW dungeons? "My" idea is to make the dungeons that were raids - Rungeons? - relevant.

[Mirishka]

Would rather see them focus on new stuff. The old raids still have their uses for transmogs, achievements, pets and mounts etc.

[crusadernero]

They should expand upon the timewalking dungeon event. Theres potential there for more content to do.

[lolmmofuture]

How to make old content relevant again?

Heres a thought... by not making it irrelevant.

bro wow is fked in the core

[Alyajna]

The idea sounds good on paper but I don't think it would be welcome much in action.

I also dislike how WoW abandons things in the past, it is such a gigantic world that it seems like such a waste, but I also get it, because there are a lot of people that only want new new new.

I think turning old raids into leveling content would be a nice idea. Especially for new players, that will never get to experience them unless they want to go there for transmog later. That removes the need to make sure all of the loot is balanced around max level (and really, giving too many gearing paths to keep track of), and also adjusting them to only work with 5 players.

I think they could award timewarped badges for use at max level, tons of experience, and other things besides gear because gear while leveling is sort of irrelevant.

I've always wanted transmog tokens for old raids. I run old raids a LOT for transmog pieces, transmog tokens that could be used on old raids that will always award a piece of useable transmog (so no rings, necks, or off-spec armor) would be great.

[Aggrophobic]

Grinding? Do tell, who's forcing you to grind anything?

If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. I know why people struggle with this, it's imbedded very deeply right there where addictions are. No, I'm not mocking you or trying to be mean, far from it. I'm being bloody serious. Do yourself a favour and let that go, buddy. You don't have to do anything you don't enjoy and being against more content out of fear that you'll have to grind even more, suggests there's a problem

.

If it's a good way to get gear, you have to.
I think it's a bad idea and I want nothing of it. Wasting time and energy on rebalancing every old raids every expansion is just going to take away from the new stuff that Blizzard even now, don't have enough resources to handle.

Just, no. Play it when it's current.

Play TW if you like old content.

[nocturnus]

If it's a good way to get gear, you have to.
I think it's a bad idea and I want nothing of it. Wasting time and energy on rebalancing every old raids every expansion is just going to take away from the new stuff that Blizzard even now, don't have enough resources to handle.

Just, no. Play it when it's current.

Play TW if you like old content.

How can you think it's a good way to gear if you don't enjoy it? What's even more worrisome, is that you think you have to. That's your addiction speaking; you don't have to do anything you don't enjoy.

Why are you using the word "every"? That's not what I suggested.

What can't Blizzard handle, according to you?

I think turning old raids into leveling content would be a nice idea.

That's a pretty great idea as well. Some Legion artifact quests required you to revisit old raids, as did the warlock green fire quest. Those quests were nothing short of epic.

[Aggrophobic]

How can you think it's a good way to gear if you don't enjoy it? What's even more worrisome, is that you think you have to. That's your addiction speaking; you don't have to do anything you don't enjoy.

Why are you using the word "every"? That's not what I suggested.

What can't Blizzard handle, according to you?

That's a pretty great idea as well. Some Legion artifact quests required you to revisit old raids, as did the warlock green fire quest. Those quests were nothing short of epic.

Because in order to do what I like in game, I need the best gear I can get.
If doing old raids (that I've done hundreds of times already) turns out to be the best way to gear up then thats what I'll have to do. That or stop doing the only thing I do like in this game so in that case, this would pretty much ruin the game completely.

Oh, and Blizzard can't balance their game. Shadowlands was delayed a few weeks when in relaity it needed months of extra time. It's a mess. They clearly don't need to deal with a complete redesign of old raids as well.

I'm sorry, but they idea is just not a good one.

[kukkamies]

I did enjoy the remakes of old dungeons. Deadmines and new Scarlet Monasteries were fun at least. No idea why they stopped.
Wish there was more smaller group content overall though. 10man mythic raids and more and harder dungeons. Then less Covenants and Mission Tables and epic cutscenes.

[nocturnus]

Because in order to do what I like in game, I need the best gear I can get.
If doing old raids (that I've done hundreds of times already) turns out to be the best way to gear up then thats what I'll have to do. That or stop doing the only thing I do like in this game so in that case, this would pretty much ruin the game completely.

Oh, and Blizzard can't balance their game. Shadowlands was delayed a few weeks when in relaity it needed months of extra time. It's a mess. They clearly don't need to deal with a complete redesign of old raids as well.

I'm sorry, but they idea is just not a good one.

This is flawed logic; I'm assuming you're talking about mythic raids when you refer to the 'content you enjoy', which is the only thing that would require gear. But even that doesn't require you to spam content - grind if you will - beyond your enjoyment unless you're competing for world firsts.

Are you?

Yes, it's a bad idea for you because you're not playing the game like 98% of its community is. You would benefit from fewer types of content because that would facilitate gear acquisition, which seems to be the only thing you really care about.

If you put meaningful loot into old content, people will just feel even more forced and burn themselves out. Groups for mythic keystones now have to cover ...what? 100 different dungeons?

That "people feel forced" argument might be a good one, but I honestly do not know, because that's not the way I think; I don't feel forced to do anything, because it's a game. Games are about enjoyment and if you don't enjoy something and feel forced to do it anyway, you should probably ponder about the priorities in your life. I really can't get behind this mind-set, it's saddening to be frank.

Eh, who has to cover HOW many different dungeons?

[Algorath]

I have never understood why they don't make old expansion's herbs, mining nodes etc. part of new recipes.. Say if strength pots needed 4xShadowlands Herb A, 2xShadowlands Herb B and 1x Gromsblood(Classic).

Makes old world content more alive at least.

[Devilyaki]

First question that comes to mind is .. Why?

[haiyken]

This is exactly why I told another guy in this thread that replying to each other's posts without actually reading them is pointless. We can't possibly have a productive conversation this way.

I never said I wanted redux of all old dungeons; I didn't even mention dungeons. I said that it would be cool if they picked one or two old, but epic raids, split those into wings and turn those [wings] into full fledged dungeons. Converting every dungeon isn't just a monumental task, it's pointless.

My point still stands, as it's even harder to convert raid content to dungeon content. Raid mecanics were designed to me done by much larger groups, with often two tanks, multiple heals. While upgrading old dungeons would be complicated, doing the same with raids will be closed to impossible without allocating enormous ressources to do so. It's quite obvious Blizzard don't want to take that route wince the only thing they did is timewalking raids with Ulduar (with the players scaling to the content, not the other way around) and the Chromie special event with you jump from raid boss to raid boss.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you're living in the past, buddy. Wow hasn't been the game you're describing in a very, very long time. Most people play the game casually and most new mechanics are designed around this casual approach; M+ is pick-up and play, Torghast is pick-up and play, catch-up mechanics are implemented, the only thing that requires commitment is raiding beyond heroic, which an extremely small percentage of the population actually does.

Wow is a game designed for a casual audience with a hardcore niche.

You and I have a different view of what "commitment" is. Commitment is not spending all you time reading guides, optimizing your character with raid.io tools and speculating on the AH. Commitment is about the time you're ready to sink, to invest into the game to play it fully. For players to level their characters, gear up through dungeons or pvp, then do some low level mythics+ take quite a long time. You may not agree with that (because everyone on this forum act like you can reach that level of gameplay with only playing two hours "omg so easy") but it takes commitment. I play with really casual friends and one of them only crafted his first legendary last week and we've been doing mythic 2 for a couple of weeks only. It takes commitment for them to play regularly to gather their renown, grind a bit of anima to upgrade their sanctum or level their covenant gear, etc. They could have easily gave up seeing the extant of weekly things they have to do to stay up to date. But they commit their time to the game in order to play together. I do agree the game is more approchable than ever for casuals, but the fact is that a MMO requieres commitment by default. As someone who has never played the game, you can't just buy it now and expect to be doing mythics a few hours later. It's not possible because the game doesn't work like that. You have to commit to leveling a character from scratch, gear up and reach that type of endgame content. Is it hard ? Of course not, but it takes time, it takes commitment. You can't possibly deny that. The fact that there is no barrier for anyone to do mythic+ doens't mean it doesn't need commitment to the game to reach that part of the game. There is also a difference between being able to do something, having access to it, and being able to complete it successfully. Just because it's accessible, doesn't mean it's easy or quick to do it.

[Cinderelle]

Could make the story go back to that raid for some reason. Alter it a little or just have two or three bosses maybe. Not like you clear something and then years later it sits empty. Someone will more into Ony's lair.

I was doing a legion quest yesterday where I was sent to the The Stonecore and Scholomance dungeons and I loved it. Hadn't been to Deepholm in ages and it was a nice reason to visit old content again. I discovered how much Scholomance had changed (I never went there again after Vanilla), so that was a nice surprise as well.

I'd love for Blizzard to use the old content a bit more, adding little quests and events that send us to places we haven't been in a while.

[VinceVega]

This is flawed logic; I'm assuming you're talking about mythic raids when you refer to the 'content you enjoy', which is the only thing that would require gear. But even that doesn't require you to spam content - grind if you will - beyond your enjoyment unless you're competing for world firsts.

Are you?

Yes, it's a bad idea for you because you're not playing the game like 98% of its community is. You would benefit from fewer types of content because that would facilitate gear acquisition, which seems to be the only thing you really care about.

That "people feel forced" argument might be a good one, but I honestly do not know, because that's not the way I think; I don't feel forced to do anything, because it's a game. Games are about enjoyment and if you don't enjoy something and feel forced to do it anyway, you should probably ponder about the priorities in your life. I really can't get behind this mind-set, it's saddening to be frank.

Eh, who has to cover HOW many different dungeons?

Wait are you implying 98% of people only do stuff they have 100% fun in and don't do anything else because it is a powergain even if they don't enjoy it particular? All those THorgast whine threads beg to differ.
Your whole apprach to the person you ar responding to is really.... condescending and arrogant tbh.

If i want to clear difficult content (which is where the fun is for me) i sometimes have to do stuff i don't particularly enjoy. No matter if it is normal/heroic or mythic. Dfficulty is subjective.
Because of that i am a addicted and wrong? Also what makes you think people in M+/PvP/Heroic raiding or even normal raiding don't give shit about good gear?
Not only World FIrst raider care about good gear. Getting better gear is an essentiall part of the game and always has been.

Even casuals do and want that. Otherwise why have gear at all? Make templates and transmog only.