Will TBC be better than Classic?

[kukkamies]

I find TBC much more like retail than vanilla. Flying, short dungeons, small raid sizes, old world dead, no more sprawling quests but instead the mindless hubs following hubs, dailies, arena, different difficulties, end of interesting trinkets and items, end of most class quests.
It's where most things about retail started. It's still a good game but I don't see that much difference from other expansions after it. It's another one month experience while waiting for MoP or another good new expansion while playing classic.

Mythic+ dungeons without timers and rushing but more mechanics would be a good one in the future.

[Joycemiester]

Nah, 2.0 was a bugfest and completely broken in so many ways it's not even funny.
2.1 is the way to go.

My point and I'm sure you got it was that classic was released with a lot of buffs to players and nerfs to pve npcs and encounters.
Let's start TBC without that. Fix the bugs fine but do not make it easier.

[Magneto]

Some will ike TBC, some wont. News at 11.

[Akka]

My point and I'm sure you got it was that classic was released with a lot of buffs to players and nerfs to pve npcs and encounters.
Let's start TBC without that. Fix the bugs fine but do not make it easier.

The problem with TBC 2.0 is that it was a mess when it came to balance and design too, not just bugs.
Mob with 360° cleave, melees DPS murdered by glancing blows, trash respawning every 45 mn, mob hitting the tank for 8-10K in heroic instances, epic items from raid being inferior or sidegrade to blue items from 5-man due to having lower ilvl, etc.

We really need the 2.1 content because it made content actually fun and sensical.
We need to NOT have later patch because it went beyond rebalance into actively nerfing content and trivializing it.

[epLe]

My point and I'm sure you got it was that classic was released with a lot of buffs to players and nerfs to pve npcs and encounters.
Let's start TBC without that. Fix the bugs fine but do not make it easier.

You are very correct about classic, nerfs and how TBC preferably should be handled.
But the chance of this happening is extremely slim.

Most likely we get the Classic treatment, with TBC releasing at 2.4.3 core, with all nerfs and only content gated.
Maybe T5 raids won't even be available at release, as it was in retail TBC.... (This is the best and only likely change to happen)

Looking to classic, will answer most questions on how Blizzard will handle this Classic-TBC, they will never put more resources into this project than needed.

[Zka]

People who raid log in BC/LK simply don't belong there. There was insane amount of replayability through alts. The game was leveling and group content, pretty much nothing else and that was the best thing.

Nowadays I can't play alts because the mandatory solo treadmill shit is boring enough on my main to cancel the sub. Group content is shit, complexity loaded upon awareness checks loaded upon complexity while you can't see SHIT because everyone is soo heroic and important that their spell effects fill the whole hemishpere. Not sure who is the target audience of the shitshow retail turned into, but it's surely not the players who loved the game 15 years ago.

[deenman]

My point and I'm sure you got it was that classic was released with a lot of buffs to players and nerfs to pve npcs and encounters.
Let's start TBC without that. Fix the bugs fine but do not make it easier.

if you fix the bugs you basicaly defeat the purpose lol,t5 is dead on arival if you fix the bugs,and so so much more

[TheRevenantHero]

You seem to awfully focus on this whole raid difficulty thing, yet that hasn't much to do with character progression.

Gearing actually feels statisfying to me, because i don't just have focus on a single raid in order get upgrades, certain items stand out because they are perfectly itemized which are really sought after.
Not to mention that i just don't ditch my entire gear once a new raid comes out.

Hm, when i was leveling in Beta, i could just do crazy AoE pulls in Bastion, something that didn't seem to work anymore when i was in Revendreth, not to mention that i was for some reason casting at a slower pace and did less crits.
And i don't think that's just the Beta.

I'm genuinely curious why somebody that believes Classic is massively flawed without any redeeming factors even posts on this forum other than trolling, maybe i'm just projecting here but i wouldn't post in a (sub)forum of something where i hold such a negative opinion on.

For one, you CANNOT just aoe things down because they put aoe limits in. For two, you definitely weren't casting slower, stop lying. Furthermore, you're talking about the beta rather than the finished product.

And you don't ditch your gear when a new raid comes out because raid gear is mostly meaningless outside of a few pieces in Classic. Raids have literally been beaten by people in greens and not even at max level in classic.

[Kralljin]

For one, you CANNOT just aoe things down because they put aoe limits in. For two, you definitely weren't casting slower, stop lying. Furthermore, you're talking about the beta rather than the finished product.

I played Elemental, so nothing has changed for me, unless you want to tell me i can't AoE anymore as the abilities from Fire Elemental / Storm Elemental now have a target cap, which you only have in the first place if you've specced into a specific talent.

Also, i am casting slower with each level, because that's how secondary stats work, you get less Haste per rating with each level, meaning you cast slower with each level.
This is pretty basic knowledge.

The latter assumes that Blizzard actually *buffed* outdoor mobs, which is already pretty unlikely considering Blizzards overall stance towards difficulty in their most basic content.
Not to mention that i also did late into the Beta cycle, meaning it already was relatively close to release.

Unless you can provide me actual proof that Blizzard significantly buffed the outdoor content in comparison to (late) Beta, i am going to say that you're just grasping at straws.

And you don't ditch your gear when a new raid comes out because raid gear is mostly meaningless outside of a few pieces in Classic.

Huh?
Unless you wearing R12 / R13 armor, Raid loot is pretty damn good.

Saying that loot from raids doesn't boost your performance is extremely silly.

Raids have literally been beaten by people in greens and not even at max level in classic.

You, again, feel the urge to bring up the topic of difficulty, is this topic some sort of obsession for you?

The feeling i get from your posts is that you cannot stand Classic, which is totally fine, you don't have to like it.
Altough the question why you then actually read and post in the Classic sub forum, without assuming any malicious intent, remains open.

[Th3Scourge]

Actually can't wait for TBC classic. Hands down my favourite xpac, most memorable experiences, and fondest memories. I'll never forget crossing through the dark portal, not being able to tag any mobs as an affliction lock. Fun times

[Waimzer]

if you fix the bugs you basicaly defeat the purpose lol,t5 is dead on arival if you fix the bugs,and so so much more

Hi, can you explain what you mean by this? was T5 buggy on release which is what made it difficult?

[arucado3]

People are still missing the point, they can't look at the bigger picture. TBC, Wotlk and also vanilla were all amazing expansions. But they WERE at their time. Even if you replay any single expansion of the game, you won't have the same experiences, because you already know everything.

Playing tbc/wotlk arenas back in the day was awesome. Leveling in vanilla was awesome. Doing old dungeons, exploring them, getting that rare piece of loot, was awesome. Getting to clear ICC HC, Molten core, or Black temple for the first time, feeling the true sense of progression, was an amazing experience.

Nowadays it's not. And it will never be again. First, because you know the game, the mechanics, and you have probably cleared all of them one thousand times in retail.

And second, because it's not retail. Your progress will be discontinued at some point.

Btw I love old wow, i've played in multiple private servers, and i can still appreciate how awesome zones were, music, the atmosphere... Any tbc/wotlk zone shits on Shadowlands any day.

[Kathandira]

People are still missing the point, they can't look at the bigger picture. TBC, Wotlk and also vanilla were all amazing expansions. But they WERE at their time. Even if you replay any single expansion of the game, you won't have the same experiences, because you already know everything.

Playing tbc/wotlk arenas back in the day was awesome. Leveling in vanilla was awesome. Doing old dungeons, exploring them, getting that rare piece of loot, was awesome. Getting to clear ICC HC, Molten core, or Black temple for the first time, feeling the true sense of progression, was an amazing experience.

Nowadays it's not. And it will never be again. First, because you know the game, the mechanics, and you have probably cleared all of them one thousand times in retail.

And second, because it's not retail. Your progress will be discontinued at some point.

Btw I love old wow, i've played in multiple private servers, and i can still appreciate how awesome zones were, music, the atmosphere... Any tbc/wotlk zone shits on Shadowlands any day.

Furthermore, when the content was new, people were still discovering things. Now, if you want to know something, pull up WoW Head and look it up. There was plenty of times where an item dropped and I was super excited because I got to experiment with it. Now if I want to know if the item has a useful application, I can just google it and read some discussions on it.

[Diabloish]

People are still missing the point, they can't look at the bigger picture. TBC, Wotlk and also vanilla were all amazing expansions. But they WERE at their time. Even if you replay any single expansion of the game, you won't have the same experiences, because you already know everything.

Playing tbc/wotlk arenas back in the day was awesome. Leveling in vanilla was awesome. Doing old dungeons, exploring them, getting that rare piece of loot, was awesome. Getting to clear ICC HC, Molten core, or Black temple for the first time, feeling the true sense of progression, was an amazing experience.

Nowadays it's not. And it will never be again. First, because you know the game, the mechanics, and you have probably cleared all of them one thousand times in retail.

And second, because it's not retail. Your progress will be discontinued at some point.

Btw I love old wow, i've played in multiple private servers, and i can still appreciate how awesome zones were, music, the atmosphere... Any tbc/wotlk zone shits on Shadowlands any day.

This may be true for a lot of people, but when it comes to pvp/raiding I truly 100% believe wotlk has the best replayability across the board for any version of the game. I personally think tbc has this as well, but I understand that it’s not for everyone.

Going back to those forbidden servers, I can seriously play arenas and dungeons and raids nonstop in the tbc and wotlk era. I was never really too interested in the vanilla raiding, because at least to me, the replayability just isn’t there as much. Vanilla to me, and a lot of people I would assume, is basically the journey TO the end level, not really the end level itself.

[anon5123]

for some reason tbc has been lagging behind in the private server scene

Because it had less development time on its server emulator. Vanilla and WOTLK got better development, which led to better servers, which led to more players on those servers. TBC servers were kinda crap in comparison. Even the best one that I played on...which was admittedly back in 2015 or so, had broken/missing scripting all over the place, gathering nodes respawning on exact timers in the exact same spots, glitches upon glitches upon glitches, etc.

[TJ]

People are still missing the point, they can't look at the bigger picture. TBC, Wotlk and also vanilla were all amazing expansions. But they WERE at their time. Even if you replay any single expansion of the game, you won't have the same experiences, because you already know everything.

Playing tbc/wotlk arenas back in the day was awesome. Leveling in vanilla was awesome. Doing old dungeons, exploring them, getting that rare piece of loot, was awesome. Getting to clear ICC HC, Molten core, or Black temple for the first time, feeling the true sense of progression, was an amazing experience.

Nowadays it's not. And it will never be again. First, because you know the game, the mechanics, and you have probably cleared all of them one thousand times in retail.

And second, because it's not retail. Your progress will be discontinued at some point.

Btw I love old wow, i've played in multiple private servers, and i can still appreciate how awesome zones were, music, the atmosphere... Any tbc/wotlk zone shits on Shadowlands any day.

I can agree, but for me, that doesn't take away my enjoyment from said release. I simply LOVE Wrath, I will 110% be playing it when (if?) it comes out and experiencing the content I've already done again. It will still be fun to me because that's how good it was.

People can read that and say "you think you will, but you won't" but I played on a Wrath private server about 2 years ago which wouldn't be anywhere near the experience you would have with a official Blizzard re-release, and honestly, it was AWESOME. I played it like hell. I said to myself that it's a private server so there would be no point investing time in joining a guild, leveling alts, basically creating a good account, but I had wicked fun doing all them things and don't regret one bit of it.

Not everybody loves certain expansions, it's all subjective, but there will always be demand for separate ones and people will always be able to have fun on them. Classic is testament to this, it's done extraordinarily well and still is even after all the content has been released. My friend and I originally thought we would play for 2-3 months and be done, yet here we are still playing to this day. I also thought that the simplistic approach to pretty much everything in Classic (rotations, class design etc) would bore me fast, but again, I am surprised how much I enjoy/enjoyed it and how much appeal the "old WoW" has, especially to me and similar people.

Just my 2 cents.

[anon5123]

if you fix the bugs you basicaly defeat the purpose lol,t5 is dead on arival if you fix the bugs,and so so much more

So games should be difficult not because of the game, but because of unintended bugs and glitches?

Lol.

[poggers]

Yes, it will be better. But not for casual guilds.

There are guilds now that still are struggling on naxx. Now imagine throwing in multiple new raids right off the bat on top of dungeons when tbc comes out and they will never be caught up

[TheRevenantHero]

I played Elemental, so nothing has changed for me, unless you want to tell me i can't AoE anymore as the abilities from Fire Elemental / Storm Elemental now have a target cap, which you only have in the first place if you've specced into a specific talent.

Also, i am casting slower with each level, because that's how secondary stats work, you get less Haste per rating with each level, meaning you cast slower with each level.
This is pretty basic knowledge.

The latter assumes that Blizzard actually *buffed* outdoor mobs, which is already pretty unlikely considering Blizzards overall stance towards difficulty in their most basic content.
Not to mention that i also did late into the Beta cycle, meaning it already was relatively close to release.

Unless you can provide me actual proof that Blizzard significantly buffed the outdoor content in comparison to (late) Beta, i am going to say that you're just grasping at straws.

Huh?
Unless you wearing R12 / R13 armor, Raid loot is pretty damn good.

Saying that loot from raids doesn't boost your performance is extremely silly.

You, again, feel the urge to bring up the topic of difficulty, is this topic some sort of obsession for you?

The feeling i get from your posts is that you cannot stand Classic, which is totally fine, you don't have to like it.
Altough the question why you then actually read and post in the Classic sub forum, without assuming any malicious intent, remains open.

If your opinion of the recent expansion is based solely on the beta then you can't really form a proper opinion because you haven't played on live.. The beta was not at all the final representation.

Are you purposely being obtuse? My point was gear doesn't really matter for the majority of Classic's end game. Sure gear can boost your performance but it's 100% not needed. The only person grasping at straws is you right now.

[Diabloish]

If your opinion of the recent expansion is based solely on the beta then you can't really form a proper opinion because you haven't played on live.. The beta was not at all the final representation.

Are you purposely being obtuse? My point was gear doesn't really matter for the majority of Classic's end game. Sure gear can boost your performance but it's 100% not needed. The only person grasping at straws is you right now.

Tell me, what’s the biggest difference between the beta shadowlands and current shadowlands?