so... still no tuning

[iosdeveloper]

It's such a joke currently. You got a few specs that can literally one shot you and the rest just got no place in the meta. Extremely unfun, I honestly can't remember the last time I enjoyed PvP so little. Maybe I should reroll fire mage and then it will be fun. Sad but true I guess.

all the times i played an OP class were pretty enjoyable
that's why i chose to play Shadow in Shadowlands

[Hylo]

so they were 210+legendary + 2 pvp pieces made them like 213, while i was 13x 184 and 2x 226 after 2 resets
link me single pvp item that is 233 and not a weapon

imagine if u were doing m+15 for 1 month, cleared all raid versions, and u would be 184 + 4 vault pieces only just because some unknown reasons pve players would spam 1231231231231 topic on blizzards forum

People make it sound like spamming +15s AND being full 210 is something that m+ players can do easily. It is not. It was outright impossible "after 2 resets" due to the way pve loot works.

Even if something is theoretically possible doesn't mean that it's possible in reality.

I also don't understand why m+ players and raiders in your world can dip into each others loot pools, but pvp players can't. There are THREE separate gearing routes (m+, raiding, pvp), not two (pve, pvp) as you seem to think.

[Enclave]

People make it sound like spamming +15s AND being full 210 is something that m+ players can do easily. It is not. It was outright impossible "after 2 resets" due to the way pve loot works.

Even if something is theoretically possible doesn't mean that it's possible in reality.

I also don't understand why m+ players and raiders in your world can dip into each others loot pools, but pvp players can't. There are THREE separate gearing routes (m+, raiding, pvp), not two (pve, pvp) as you seem to think.

werent pvers crying their eyes out that they had to do a little pvp at start of expansion? and now you're saying pvpers should pve to get better gear? shit makes no sense
pvp should net best pvp gear, pve should net best pve gear end of story

[Hylo]

pvp should net best pvp gear, pve should net best pve gear end of story

Agreed 100%, but Blizzard is as stubborn as ever in this question.

Bring back resilience.

[heheszek]

People make it sound like spamming +15s AND being full 210 is something that m+ players can do easily. It is not. It was outright impossible "after 2 resets" due to the way pve loot works.

Even if something is theoretically possible doesn't mean that it's possible in reality.

I also don't understand why m+ players and raiders in your world can dip into each others loot pools, but pvp players can't. There are THREE separate gearing routes (m+, raiding, pvp), not two (pve, pvp) as you seem to think.

its same to warforge/titanforge beeing rare/not easy to obtain - but at the end of the day u met ppl with full titanforge/warforge gear everywhere

ive been playing 2.1k+ in first and second week, and there were majority players abusing pve gear they had like 33-35k hp, which i have now after 1.5month
if pvp gear had resi(pvp stat) in it it wouldnt be a case

[hulkgor]

you can do 100 mythic+15 runs and get full 220, you can do 10000000 arenas and you'll still be hardstuck at 210 because you need to wait for weekly cap

Except you get max ilvl 210 from dungeons, even at 15s or 20s

Nice try tho, thanks for playing.

[Xavv]

Except you get max ilvl 210 from dungeons, even at 15s or 20s

Nice try tho, thanks for playing.

Ahh this isn't entirely correct. You would get 226 options from the Vault for doing a +14. Sure, it's only one per week, but it aint that much worse than the current state of conquest cap.

[hulkgor]

Ahh this isn't entirely correct. You would get 226 options from the Vault for doing a +14. Sure, it's only one per week, but it aint that much worse than the current state of conquest cap.

I was replying to :

you can do 100 mythic+15 runs and get full 220, you can do 10000000 arenas and you'll still be hardstuck at 210 because you need to wait for weekly cap

[Merlunie]

Ahh this isn't entirely correct. You would get 226 options from the Vault for doing a +14. Sure, it's only one per week, but it aint that much worse than the current state of conquest cap.

PVP is currently the only way to obtain 233 items for 99.99% of the player base. It all evens out.

[cparle87]

It's such a joke currently. You got a few specs that can literally one shot you and the rest just got no place in the meta. Extremely unfun, I honestly can't remember the last time I enjoyed PvP so little. Maybe I should reroll fire mage and then it will be fun. Sad but true I guess.

Didn't you enjoy the days of naked rogues 100 to 0 stunlocking you and 3 minute mages globalling you in classic?

[Vampyrr]

Kind of off-topic but it's weird reading that 1600 is piss-easy when it's the first time in 10 years that I see people in trade channel looking for mate to push 1400. Pushing 1400 rating. I'm going to be honest and probably embarass myself but it's really not that easy unless you : a. are very good at PvP (so that 1600 is really a joke) b. play a meta/broken spec (fire mage, boomy, paladin, warr, ww, shaman). I'm playing jungle with a hunter friend and PUG healers, while not being amazing or geniuses, we're both 2400 exp from BFA S1 (me, first season where I pvp seriously) and S4 (him) and staying above 1800 is hard as fuck right now. And like 80% of the games we meet people with the same exp as we have, also stuck around 1800. While other, more casual, friends who got 1600-1700 before SL are struggling to get to 1400. 1600 is doable for pretty much any class/spec and not that hard, but it's not a 'joke' in the current meta if you're not playing a meta spec. I really wonder what are the percentiles for arena rating right now.

It is in RBGs you can yolo to 1600

[SoloMmofriendly]

STILL no balance changes after the AWC clownshow. Just so strange that a high end company spends so much money on an event like that but won’t take 2 hours to figure out how to balance it

Whelp. Aight boys what PvP games are we playing because I’m tired of playing around combusts convokes and WoG’s

Blizzard do not want to balance the game, they want to buff certain classes to distract everyone from the fact that the content is free, easy and empty so everyone considers rerolling thus making players replay the content that already exists as they level there new blizzard boosted class.

I thought about rerolling shaman. op in m+ and pvp but then i thought better of it and decided to unsub and take up a new more rewarding game instead as i could see what would happen.

In 2/3 weeks i would have caught everyone back up then i would be taking the place in m+ of players of weaker classes through no reason other than the class i play, while alot of you are ok with this, personally i prefer to be rewarded based on my ability not on what class i play. but hey, thats just me. shame on me for not enjoying blizzards handouts.

- - - Updated - - -

Kind of off-topic but it's weird reading that 1600 is piss-easy when it's the first time in 10 years that I see people in trade channel looking for mate to push 1400. Pushing 1400 rating. I'm going to be honest and probably embarass myself but it's really not that easy unless you : a. are very good at PvP (so that 1600 is really a joke) b. play a meta/broken spec (fire mage, boomy, paladin, warr, ww, shaman). I'm playing jungle with a hunter friend and PUG healers, while not being amazing or geniuses, we're both 2400 exp from BFA S1 (me, first season where I pvp seriously) and S4 (him) and staying above 1800 is hard as fuck right now. And like 80% of the games we meet people with the same exp as we have, also stuck around 1800. While other, more casual, friends who got 1600-1700 before SL are struggling to get to 1400. 1600 is doable for pretty much any class/spec and not that hard, but it's not a 'joke' in the current meta if you're not playing a meta spec. I really wonder what are the percentiles for arena rating right now.

I can tell you exactly why this is and with a bit of logic you will see, oh ya, that makes sense.

Blizzard overpowered pve gearing and underpowered m+ gearing.

The result is all the people that only care about m+ and even raids now see that shiny pvp gear and are forced into learning how to pvp having never tried before because they never really enjoyed it.

The result is all these new pvers trying to climb the ladder at the same time cancelling each other out.

Add into the mix the unbalance of certain classes and you have a massive crowd of players that are:

Underskilled in pvp but play an op class
Skilled in pvp but play a weak class
Skilled in pvp and cant find a good partner to counter the one shot mechanics consistently enough to climb the ladder

all of these comps cancelling each other out leading to a 50/50 win rate for everyone. i played a resto druid for 1000 arena matches before ultimately i gave up and what i noticed was nearly everyone has a 50/50 win rate and wins/losses often depended on these primarily pvers knowing how to also save something to counter spells like convoke or using a defensive ccing/kiting a monk/warr when he uses all his dps cds.

The more i learnt and the more i understood the more i realised how unequipped the majority of my partners were to climb the ladder consistently. ofc while i was oblivious it was fun to be learning but as i learnt i realised, this wont end anytime soon. wave after wave after wave of pver trying to be get rewarded from the overpowered pvp gearing system, ofc i would meet the odd knowledgable pvper and we would move up the ladder, then he would go offline and back to pugging 5/6/7/8/9 more pvers to move back down the ladder.

why do you think getting 1800 is so difficult? unless you are a seasoned pvper on an op class then ofc your going to have an easier time than the rest and see absolutely no issue.

Then there are the exceptional pvpers that can solo there way to 2.1k on any class, they dont count and would be there in any content, any season regardless as pvp is all that they do, they are the real winners in shadowlands running round with there 233 gear which for them was most likely laughably easy to obtain due to the retardidly large headstart they got with learning pvp, they were already glad every season i bet when they seen the system they were like "lol thanks blizz" "shadowlands is the best expansion ever!"

[Ange]

all of these comps cancelling each other out leading to a 50/50 win rate for everyone.

You make it sound like 50:50 win rate is bad, while in reality its pretty much the norm for everyone outside of the 0.1% with fixed partners and reroll happy players that choose every season the least amount of resistance to win in pvp.

Even early legion DH/pvp only players hoovered around 50% win rate and I dont have to tell you how the balance at that point was, because arena participation was near death at that point and still the average try hard did not manage to do anything exceptional outside of peaking 1800/2200 in the first weeks with grinding 50:50 games even with the most broken state of pvp balance.

[SoloMmofriendly]

You make it sound like 50:50 win rate is bad

For players that dont want to pvp and are only there for the rewards. its bad playing endless games and not moving anywhere.

[Molov]

It is in RBGs you can yolo to 1600

You're right. In my head I was only thinking about arena.

I can tell you exactly why this is and with a bit of logic you will see, oh ya, that makes sense.

Blizzard overpowered pve gearing and underpowered m+ gearing.

The result is all the people that only care about m+ and even raids now see that shiny pvp gear and are forced into learning how to pvp having never tried before because they never really enjoyed it.

The result is all these new pvers trying to climb the ladder at the same time cancelling each other out.

Add into the mix the unbalance of certain classes and you have a massive crowd of players that are:

Underskilled in pvp but play an op class
Skilled in pvp but play a weak class
Skilled in pvp and cant find a good partner to counter the one shot mechanics consistently enough to climb the ladder

all of these comps cancelling each other out leading to a 50/50 win rate for everyone. i played a resto druid for 1000 arena matches before ultimately i gave up and what i noticed was nearly everyone has a 50/50 win rate and wins/losses often depended on these primarily pvers knowing how to also save something to counter spells like convoke or using a defensive ccing/kiting a monk/warr when he uses all his dps cds.

The more i learnt and the more i understood the more i realised how unequipped the majority of my partners were to climb the ladder consistently. ofc while i was oblivious it was fun to be learning but as i learnt i realised, this wont end anytime soon. wave after wave after wave of pver trying to be get rewarded from the overpowered pvp gearing system, ofc i would meet the odd knowledgable pvper and we would move up the ladder, then he would go offline and back to pugging 5/6/7/8/9 more pvers to move back down the ladder.

why do you think getting 1800 is so difficult? unless you are a seasoned pvper on an op class then ofc your going to have an easier time than the rest and see absolutely no issue.

Then there are the exceptional pvpers that can solo there way to 2.1k on any class, they dont count and would be there in any content, any season regardless as pvp is all that they do, they are the real winners in shadowlands running round with there 233 gear.

From my experience the vaste majority of these PvE-ers playing either OP or meta specs/comps are stuck at around 1600 (like, almost all of them). It's true that a lot of them are motivated mostly for the pvp trinkets that are really good compared to the pve ones (they are mostly trash i must accept), but when you're over 1750~ you start Qing mostly 2300+ xp players, and the difference is very very noticeable in the gap between like near 1700 and near 1800. Where I also agree with you is that they (the pre-SL high rated players not only the PvE-ers) all cancel each other out playing meta comps, hence being stuck at 1800 with a 50-50 ratio: since AWC all I see are fuckin Ret/war/rsham, shaman/mage/rsham, ww/mage or war/hpal or rsham. Then there are good comps but not that meta, like jungle, where you struggle all the way and sometimes you might as well just insta forfeit vs certain comps (war/ret/rsham or hpal is fucking hell).

You are not wrong, but I think there's more than the pve thing: the pvp meta is particularly bad this season and the ratings are less inflated than BFA somehow.

[Ange]

For players that dont want to pvp and are only there for the rewards. its bad playing endless games and not moving anywhere.

You are free to do what ever you want in this MMO. If you like to force yourself into gaming modes you dont enjoy for meaningless power level gains, thats on you.

Its the first tier in this expansion in a game with 16 years of history. If you feel forced to do anything you dont like in this game, nobody but yourself can be blamed at this point. Even if you dont have enough experience how WoW works for gearing at least you could have inform yourself with 16 years worth of player feedback.

Arenas low participation means just that you will roll up the hill in rating, no matter what you do. Just by doing the weekly cap and slow mount farming alone will get you to 1800+ in random MOUNT-FARM-PUGs with zero experience in pvp. The first 1-2 weeks each content are inflated with try-harding raiders, but after that you play against "PVP-only-casuals" who cant do anything else in this game, not really a huge challenge to farm your way into the 1800+ casual rating.

[Xath]

you can do 100 mythic+15 runs and get full 220, you can do 10000000 arenas and you'll still be hardstuck at 210 because you need to wait for weekly cap

erm M+ is capped at 210 so no you can't

[SoloMmofriendly]

You are free to do what ever you want in this MMO. If you like to force yourself into gaming modes you dont enjoy for meaningless power level gains, thats on you.

Its the first tier in this expansion in a game with 16 years of history. If you feel forced to do anything you dont like in this game, nobody but yourself can be blamed at this point. Even if you dont have enough experience how WoW works for gearing at least you could have inform yourself with 16 years worth of player feedback.

Arenas low participation means just that you will roll up the hill in rating, no matter what you do. Just by doing the weekly cap and slow mount farming alone will get you to 1800+ in random MOUNT-FARM-PUGs with zero experience in pvp. The first 1-2 weeks each content are inflated with try-harding raiders, but after that you play against "PVP-only-casuals" who cant do anything else in this game, not really a huge challenge to farm your way into the 1800+ casual rating.

Gear determines your ceiling. not the content you are doing, your ceiling. thats a fact since the beginning of wow.

x2 serious players exact same spec going for world 1, neither raids. neither wants to pvp.

only m+ - stacked out in 210s with weekly reward
now if you add pvp to the mists, if you reach 1800 you are then stacked out in 210s, have 220 rings, offhand, neck, cloak, trinket and the weekly reward.

You cannot say gear doesnt determine your level because gear DOES determine your ceiling, ESPECIALLY when the difference is a 215 ilvl player vs a 222 ilvl player. the difference is HUGEEEEEEE.

in a nutshell, competitive pve players are FORCED into pvp.

[Sombrero]

It's really unbelievable that with this state of the game that they are just blatantly doing nothing for weeks and weeks now. Not even a sign of life from the PvP def team. No one even knows whats going on, or if even ANYTHING is going on, or if they just called it a day for this season. With this much imbalances in the game and the expansion thriving otherwise. Unbelievable.

[intenz]

I am doing the minimum amount of pvp only for the gear, it just isn't fun at all. If I wanted to pvp serious I would find a tbc/wotlk pserver. PvE is kinda fun this expansion, if you look past the pathetic droprates.