Warforging was ok, Titanforging wasn't!

[Dracullus]

All we need is thread "I miss islands and warfronts" and we can officially start BfA nostalgia season.

[Tradu]

No different to someone getting a 226 piece for doing a 14, no? I don't know, I always found it quite hype when a guildy or I snagged an iLvl cap item, & if someone raiding LFR/normal or even doing world quests was pleasantly surprised by randomly getting an upgrade then hey, that's pretty cool for them, & has no affect on me whatsoever. What does have an affect on me though is months of farm raiding with nothing to gain whatsoever

It is a bit weird when it comes to M+, because the end of dungeon loot is probably reasonable for the difficulty of the content, but the weekly chest is obviously a fair bit higher. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable, though, because at least it's a weekly thing that's the same for everybody.
I actually think expanding the weekly chest to also have a 4th section that you unlock based on world content would be good, as long as the ilevel from it is within reason. Say the same ilevel as your emissaries or maybe very slightly higher, so right now that'd be 197 or so, and you unlock the slots by filling a bar that gets progress from rares/chests/WQs/emissaries(doing every emissary for the week would get you all 3 slots when accounting for the stuff you need to do for the emissaries as well)

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Exactly. It is "Special Snowflake" Syndrone. PLayers don't want anyone who they consider to be a lesser player getting beter gear than them. If they were always getting the TF they wanted, they wouldn't be complaining one bit. That are only complaining because they got unlucky

That said, the fix to TF was easy. Keep it to open world content only and only allow TF to go to the ILvL of a normal raid drop. No sockets either. That way Mythic dungeon and raid gear are always superior. But this is another example of Ion's complete inability to understand what a "happy medium" is.

I got plenty of good titanforged gear(one of the side effects of playing a lot of characters and far too many hours a week), the system was awful and broke the reward structure of the game. Also if people always got the titanforges they wanted, there wouldn't be titanforging because that'd just be the new baseline.

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NO, he was fine getting that one piece. Those that run the content will get a whole set of those drops. There is zero wrong with someone getting lucky to have one piece.

That said, the fix to TF was easy. Keep it to open world content only and only allow TF to go to the ILvL of a normal raid drop. No sockets either. That way Mythic dungeon and raid gear are always superior. But this is another example of Ion's complete inability to understand what a "happy medium" is.

No, he wasn't. He didn't do the hard content that warranted getting the best possible trinket. If he wanted the best possible trinket, he should've done the hardest content.

I'm fine with that solution, but a lot of people would (rightly) point out that doing that basically removes titanforging anyway.

[rrayy]

I got plenty of good titanforged gear(one of the side effects of playing a lot of characters and far too many hours a week), the system was awful and broke the reward structure of the game. Also if people always got the titanforges they wanted, there wouldn't be titanforging because that'd just be the new baseline.

NO it didn't. Notice that you aren't complaining about you getting the Titaforges, but about other people being able to get one piece. The whole argument is seen through the prism of "lesser players than I should NEVER get even one piece of gear that is superior to mine". Being able to get powerful gear from any content is good as long as it is far easier to get a whole set in the hardest content. You still had to run the hardest content to get the best gear and you would have to be unbelieveably lucky to get a full set in lesser content and were far more likely to get maybe 2-3 pieces at most.

[Toybox]

All we need is thread "I miss islands and warfronts" and we can officially start BfA nostalgia season.

PvP warfronts were a laugh to be fair. Going in & stomping people who typically limit themselves to LFR & world quests was always going to be a slaughter

[Tradu]

NO it didn't. Notice that you aren't complaining about you getting the Titaforges, but about other people being able to get one piece. The whole argument is seen through the prism of "lesser players than I should NEVER get even one piece of gear that is superior to mine". Being able to get powerful gear from any content is good as long as it is far easier to get a whole set in the hardest content. You still had to run the hardest content to get the best gear and you would have to be unbelieveably lucky to get a full set in lesser content and were far more likely to get maybe 2-3 pieces at most.

I know this is a crazy concept, but there can be multiple things wrong with a system at the same time. I initially responded to somebody talking about a guy in LFR looting a 925 Draught or something. That's why I focused on that problem with titanforging and people getting loot they very clearly shouldn't be getting based on the difficulty of the content they did. I also strongly disliked that titanforging meant that I could never be done with gearing, because getting a full set of max ilevel + socketed gear just didn't happen. It also encouraged stupid gameplay like running difficulties that you outgeared in hopes of a titanforged trinket or whatever.

[rrayy]

I know this is a crazy concept, but there can be multiple things wrong with a system at the same time. I initially responded to somebody talking about a guy in LFR looting a 925 Draught or something. That's why I focused on that problem with titanforging and people getting loot they very clearly shouldn't be getting based on the difficulty of the content they did. I also strongly disliked that titanforging meant that I could never be done with gearing, because getting a full set of max ilevel + socketed gear just didn't happen. It also encouraged stupid gameplay like running difficulties that you outgeared in hopes of a titanforged trinket or whatever.

That is a "you problem" not a game one. You in no way needed sockets or anything else if you had a full set of max iLvl gear. You could already get the content down easily without either. Players just lack the self control to realize that TF sockets are not needed and that all that mattered was that you have a full set of mythic raid gear which is more than enough to clear it. That is nothing more than "Downing a boss doesn't count unless I am topping the DPS meters in doing so".

And who made you sole arbiter of what gameplay is OK? There is abolutely nothing wrong with it and you are free to completely ignore it and continue to your max Ilvl set" That is nothing more than the "Lesser players should never have even one piece that is better gear than mine" mentaility I mentioned earlier.

[snusrage]

Reforging was better then both of these .... good lord i wish it was back

[Tradu]

That is a "you problem" not a game one. You in no way needed sockets or anything else if you had a full set of max iLvl gear. You could already get the content down easily without either. Players just lack the self control to realize that TF sockets are not needed and that all that mattered was that you have a full set of mythic raid gear which is more than enough to clear it. That is nothing more than "Downing a boss doesn't count unless I am topping the DPS meters in doing so".

And who made you sole arbiter of what gameplay is OK? There is abolutely nothing wrong with it and you are free to completely ignore it and continue to your max Ilvl set" That is nothing more than the "Lesser players should never have even one piece that is better gear than mine" mentaility I mentioned earlier.

Reaching a point during farm where everybody is done with gear means ranks get more meaningful, and playing for ranks can be fun. Being done with gear meant you could play/gear other characters without having to worry about your main starting next tier at a disadvantage.

Are you kidding? It's very clearly my opinion on what's good/bad design. It's just a waste of space to write "in my opinion" at the start of every sentence. I disagree that there's nothing wrong with it. If you want the best loot, do the hardest content.

[RoKPaNda]

Titanforging was fine once we came to understand how it actually worked. When speculation was running rampant and the myth of the LFR hero running around in full Mythic level gear hadn't been dispelled yet TF seemed awful. Once we learned that on average if you ran Normal every week in a normal length tier you could expect on average ONE item of Mythic base or higher TF per tier, less for LFR, slightly more for heroic, it became a non-issue. The only issue that remained was people with addictive personalities that were unable to think of TF as a nice bonus rather than something to spend their every waking moment pursuing. In other words, gambling addicts created the community perception of TF being a problem.

As a Mythic raider it never bothered me. I couldn't care less if little Jimmy got a sick ring from clicking squirrels in Legion. Wasn't taking anything away from me, wasn't competing with me for anything, didn't matter.

I don't particularly care that they took it out of the game, I think they made loot a lot more boring. I think the mistake was that they did loot is loot AND less loot at the same time. One or the other one would have been fine. Both at once feels like shit. It's a good thing that I thoroughly enjoy this tier because right now I operate on the assumption that for my hours each week in the raid I'm going to get nothing worthwhile and on Tuesday I MIGHT get an upgrade. It's not very satisfying. In all seriousness if this tier wasn't a great tier I'd probably have stopped playing just because the content doesn't feel rewarding.

TF/WF > Corruption > Badges >>>>> SL Loot IMO. Hopefully they make some changes over the course of the expansion.

I know this is a crazy concept, but there can be multiple things wrong with a system at the same time. I initially responded to somebody talking about a guy in LFR looting a 925 Draught or something. That's why I focused on that problem with titanforging and people getting loot they very clearly shouldn't be getting based on the difficulty of the content they did. I also strongly disliked that titanforging meant that I could never be done with gearing, because getting a full set of max ilevel + socketed gear just didn't happen. It also encouraged stupid gameplay like running difficulties that you outgeared in hopes of a titanforged trinket or whatever.

It didn't though. If you knew how low the chance of getting something from normal/LFR was you wouldn't run it. It wasn't worth the time. Heroic, sure. Still probably not worth the time, but somewhat more worth it than the other two. In all the years since they added TF do you know how many times I've seen proof of a max level TF or anything even close to it from LFR or lower? Twice. I saw a screenshot of a ring from a WQ in valsharah, and I saw a screenshot of that Draught from LFR. It was 100% a player created and perpetuated problem, and Blizzard being more open more early about how it worked would have curtailed that problem, but Blizzard is like a big golden lab that occasionally shits on the carpet so shrug.

[Malania]

They were both garbage. The only decent system was reforging and that was only good when secondary stats like hit etc were relevant.

[Dhrizzle]

Titanforging was nice, you could randomly get a slightly better item so if you wanted to drop into some content that was "completed" there was still a slight chance of an upgrade. Only thing that would have made it better was getting some sort of currency from pretty much all content that would allow you to buy the upgrade.

The trouble is anything that gives a slight amount of player power gets branded as mandatory and people whine about having to do too much, it's an unfortunate casualty of WoW having such a broad base of players and having to please as many as possible while pissing off as few as possible.

[Rendark]

Both fucking sucked. There's nothing wrong with being done with gearing for that patch.

[froschhure]

both system are very nice, especially to those that love to grind
this is a really fun system and anyone can use it with or without exp!

casuals can get their proccd nice piece (fully random yay, surprises)
grinder have something to play for (yay i love grinding what'll i get)
people that dislike this, don't like to play wow or grind at all, (i only play wow for auction house and gold making)
or are just mean cu*** that don't want others to get anything (ONLY RAIDING HAS TO GIEF HIGHEST ILVL Blblbl,)

[chiddie]

What about a simple “I time the dungeon = I get one piece of gear”?

Giving the amount of object ilvls, duplicates and items with wrong secondary stats, it will take ages for the average player to gear up via M+ anyways.

[froschhure]

and this option " i don't like both system" well honey you have to give an alternative, don't you?

[clevin]

and this option " i don't like both system" well honey you have to give an alternative, don't you?

No. We don't. We're not game designers.

[Spike`]

A simple warforge with 3 and 6 up option is enough, not the titanforge to max level

but ideally should be 6 - 13, this would give alot to play in M+ and would make raids a change to drop at max the next raid difficulty (ex: LFR getting at max normal mode ilvl)

for raid mythic maybe only allow the same ilvl of the 2 last bosses , 233 , to get the ilvl constant between patches

for m+ the cap would be on 223, this would make a M+15 having a chance to receive at max a m+13 great vault (223ilvl) and still having making the Greater Vault relevant for the 226 ilvl item

this simple thing would make all type of players doing content instead of now, unsub like me or just log-in on reset, do raid and until next week

[Recovery]

TF and WF were both great and necessary. Not sure how one can say WF was OK but TF wasn't. They are literally the same thing with a bit of ilvl difference. (WF as an upgrade system is also OK but I prefer the rng version for all drops)

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Literally this.

troll. /10chars

[kamuimac]

That is a "you problem" not a game one. You in no way needed sockets or anything else if you had a full set of max iLvl gear. You could already get the content down easily without either. Players just lack the self control to realize that TF sockets are not needed and that all that mattered was that you have a full set of mythic raid gear which is more than enough to clear it. That is nothing more than "Downing a boss doesn't count unless I am topping the DPS meters in doing so".

And who made you sole arbiter of what gameplay is OK? There is abolutely nothing wrong with it and you are free to completely ignore it and continue to your max Ilvl set" That is nothing more than the "Lesser players should never have even one piece that is better gear than mine" mentaility I mentioned earlier.

more so - pvp atm is best proof that playerbase has absolutely nothing against farming currency for gear upgrades / upgrading gear as long as this currency is uncapped.

there isnt even a single thread whinign about people "forced to farm bgs" to upgrade conquest items.

it was always a lie that farming vp to upgrade gear was a problem - it never was - problem was the weekly cap .

removal of vp and vp upgrades from pve was the worst mistake blizzard did.

there was never need for tf - they should have kept vp 4/4 upgrades and vp gear in game. with tiny modification - for example clearing X normal bosses (lets say ...21 ) lets you upgrade 1/4 - clearing X hc bosses lets you upgrade 2/4 - clearing last boss on hc lets you upgrade 3/4 and killing X bosses on mythci lets you upgrade 4/4 . there you go - free instant solution what to do in pve in SL for Ion . no $$$ needed.

[God Save The King]

I didn't mind WF/TF when all it gave was a +5/+10. It essentially self-nerfed raids as more and more WF/TF gear would drop. Then they added a currency to slowly increase all your gear to a full +10. That was a solid system and gave meaningful progression across the entire tier. And if you received nothing, at least you got currency so raids were worth full clearing each week.

The Legion/BFA versions of TF made it so BiS came from previous tiers at an incredibly low drop chance. We're talking lower than 1/1000 mounts. It made those lucky few a lot more powerful than the majority. It also made BiS incredibly hard to achieve as it existed in m+ as well.

SL feels... wrong when it comes to loot. The only reason to full clear a raid or do m+ is to check off your great vault checklist. PvP's system is so good this expansion that many of my guildmates are farming to 1800/2100 for the first times in their careers. I personally never set foot into an RBG but knowing how easy rating is there, I was able to find many 215+ ilvl groups and steamroll my way to 2.1k rating last week. My ilvl went up +7 just from getting PvP gear and pushing it all to 226. After capping next week I'll be in all 226 from previous vaults/mythic raiding, with the majority of my gear coming from PvP.

Idk it just feels wrong to have been pushing deep into mythic raids and getting +15s for over a month now, and to suddenly have the majority of my gear be at mythic raid ilvl with just a short week of RBG spam. The difficulty gap is also quite large. I am a healer and a +15 feels about as hard as many mythic raid bosses, while spamming chain heal in the back of a BG with 2 other healers felt... cheap. It did get a bit harder once we crested ~2.2k mmr, but I ended last week with 63 wins and 7 losses. Rarely ever got focused and when I did all I needed to do was call out and people peeled off me. I guess voice comms helped, not sure what the other team was doing.

It's extra annoying as a resto shaman, since I was able to get my best 2 stats on nearly every slot (vers/crit) and getting vers (my best stat) on each piece at least.