PA couple shot over long-going dispute with neighbor

[Shadowferal]

If a rapist is shot to death by his victim no one would be foolishly making that comparison.

[Lynarii]

No, I'm afraid not. There is no evidence for that whatsoever, and the mentality of violence is not the same the mentality of rape. That's why they are handled differently. They are literally given different names. The law literally handles them differently. With different rules, different terms - everything. You trying to say otherwise sounds like you are now becoming who you claimed me to be. You don't like the results so you want to change the rules.

The rules are solid, but they apply differently to different cases. The rules and the law.

Okay, I'm going to take a stab at this. Basically, what you are suggesting is saying that if someone didn't go out to the supermarket on a day, they wouldn't have been killed by a drunk driver. The problem is, 'not leaving the house for fear of being hit by a drunk' is not a reasonable expectation for people to live their life under. Not arguing with anyone for fear that they may brutally murder you is also not a reasonable expectation. There ARE good reasons to not want to argue with your neighbors, but 'getting murdered' isn't on that list.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

He's CLEARLY an Admiral! Get it right.

Signed,
Assistant Deputy Semantics.

I was thinking of "Captain" more in the superhero sense than in the military sense

Like Captain America, Captain Britain, or Captain Marvel

Their actual military ranks are not reflected in their title.

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Yes, actually, it does.

In this context...what material difference does it make?

You obviously knew what he was referring to.

Semantics isn’t a thing to be afraid of

They aren't to be feared, no...but they don't need to be brought up in every single discussion.

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If a rapist is shot to death by his victim no one would be foolishly making that comparison.

If you are going to respond to me, then actually do so and answer the question

Would you say that a rape victim that viciously argued with her attacker before the rape should have been nicer?

[Endus]

Funny how you think rape and murder are the same thing...

Funny thing about analogies.

You have to compare two different things. That's the entire purpose and function of analogy. If you compare two identical things, that's not an analogy at all. It's a tautology, and tautologies are useless.

"A rat is like a cat in that they are both mammals" is an analogy.
"A rat is like another rat because they're both rats" is a tautology. A waste of everyone's time.

Nobody thinks that in the first one you're claiming that a rat is a cat, and using that as a counterargument just makes you look silly as hell.

[Jonnusthegreat]

A man and a woman get into an argument. The woman started the argument and is escalating it at every turn. They are both as vile and disgusting as these people here are. As the argument escalates the man throws the woman on the ground and brutally rapes her.

Would you say "Well, if she had been nicer...she wouldn't have been raped"?

She probably wouldn't have - but that doesn't mean she is at fault. There is a distinct difference that lots of these 'victim blame criers' don't understand - you can do things that contribute to future events, but the only thing you are responsible for is what you do.

I don't think anyone disagrees that walking into dark alleys at night in the bad part of town contributes to you getting mugged. You are still not responsible for getting mugged - only the mugger bears responsibility for that. But had you not walked down that alley, your chances of not getting mugged would be higher.

Similarly, had this couple not initiated an assault against their neighbor, they would probably be alive. It is still not their fault they are dead.

But we don't have a crystal ball that can see into alternate realities. Thus, all we can do is mourn the loss of 3 lives.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

In the context it makes a lot of difference since a clip with a pistol would indicate a lot fewer rounds being fired. And while I assumed he meant to say magazine and simply doesn’t know shit about guns, assumptions are a terrible thing to go on. For instance, my assumption with this interaction is that you have a weird issue with education where you hate being told you don’t know something. Why else would you take offense on someone else’s behalf when I was giving a bit of friendly education?

Please then, Professor... go on with your very important lesson about the difference between clips and magazines and how it applies to this situation.

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She probably wouldn't have - but that doesn't mean she is at fault. There is a distinct difference that lots of these 'victim blame criers' don't understand - you can do things that contribute to future events, but the only thing you are responsible for is what you do.

I don't think anyone disagrees that walking into dark alleys at night in the bad part of town contributes to you getting mugged. You are still not responsible for getting mugged - only the mugger bears responsibility for that. But had you not walked down that alley, your chances of not getting mugged would be higher.

Similarly, had this couple not initiated an assault against their neighbor, they would probably be alive. It is still not their fault they are dead.

But we don't have a crystal ball that can see into alternate realities. Thus, all we can do is mourn the loss of 3 lives.

You went all the way around the question without actually answering it.

Would you tell her that she should have been nicer?

[gondrin]

Okay, I'm going to take a stab at this. Basically, what you are suggesting is saying that if someone didn't go out to the supermarket on a day, they wouldn't have been killed by a drunk driver. The problem is, 'not leaving the house for fear of being hit by a drunk' is not a reasonable expectation for people to live their life under. Not arguing with anyone for fear that they may brutally murder you is also not a reasonable expectation. There ARE good reasons to not want to argue with your neighbors, but 'getting murdered' isn't on that list.

However, if you choose to walk in the middle of the road while going to the supermarket and get hit by a drunk driver, it is still the fault of the driver but walking in the middle of a road is a bad thing. While it wouldn't excuse the driver in any way as them being drunk and driving would make them 100% at fault, being in the middle of the road causes your chances of getting hit to go up by quite a bit. I wouldn't say they were at fault at all however I also wouldn't feel sorry for them for getting hit as they chose to be in the road when it isn't an area for pedestrians to begin with.

Much like this, the guy who murdered the couple is 100% at fault here. However, since the couple kept escalating the situation, while they didn't deserve(nor should have ever) to be killed for an argument, I don't feel sorry for them for whatever came of it. I do feel sorry for their kid as now he lost 2 parents to some nonsense. Out of all of that, he is the real victim here because he now has no immediate family and has to live with that.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

However, if you choose to walk in the middle of the road while going to the supermarket and get hit by a drunk driver, it is still the fault of the driver but walking in the middle of a road is a bad thing. While it wouldn't excuse the driver in any way as them being drunk and driving would make them 100% at fault, being in the middle of the road causes your chances of getting hit to go up by quite a bit. I wouldn't say they were at fault at all however I also wouldn't feel sorry for them for getting hit as they chose to be in the road when it isn't an area for pedestrians to begin with.

Much like this, the guy who murdered the couple is 100% at fault here. However, since the couple kept escalating the situation, while they didn't deserve(nor should have ever) to be killed for an argument, I don't feel sorry for them for whatever came of it. I do feel sorry for their kid as now he lost 2 parents to some nonsense. Out of all of that, he is the real victim here because he now has no immediate family and has to live with that.

The issue with your drunk driver analogy is that walking in the middle of the street has the expected result of getting hit by a car.
Getting into an argument with your neighbour does not have the expected result of double homicide

[gondrin]

Please then, Professor... go on with your very important lesson about the difference between clips and magazines and how it applies to this situation.

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You went all the way around the question without actually answering it.

Would you tell her that she should have been nicer?

Actually, no. I would have told her to defend herself and if need be, kill the person trying to rape her as it can be deadly. If she got into an argument with a guy and he decides to rape her in the heat of it all, then he deserves whatever is coming to him and he escalated it way beyond what it should.

The following is only an example and is to be treated as such.

However, to change it a bit, lets say both were flirting with one another and the guy brushes her off. She gets offended starts to taunt him saying (highly unrealistic but it is only an example) "You too chickenshit to fuck me." and keeps doing that, then he turns around and does such a thing and then she screams rape, then I cannot feel sorry for her as she purposefully escalated it to that point. She didn't deserve to be raped it in any way however I wouldn't feel sorry for her because of the situation.

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The issue with your drunk driver analogy is that walking in the middle of the street has the expected result of getting hit by a car.
Getting into an argument with your neighbour does not have the expected result of double homicide

However, when he did pull said gun out, they still taunted him at that point to do something. While, as I said, it wasn't justified in shooting them, taunting the guy when he has a gun to do something can have that exact effect.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

However, when he did pull said gun out, they still taunted him at that point to do something. While, as I said, it wasn't justified in shooting them, taunting the guy when he has a gun to do something can have that exact effect.

Now, I'll admit this is conjecture...but from the way they reacted when he pulled the gun out I got the feeling that they weren't shocked by that act. To me it felt like it was something he had done before to intimidate. They only seemed surprised when he actually started shooting at them. But, as i said, that's only conjecture.

In any rate, I will say that taunting a man with a gun is not the smartest move...but people aren't at their brightest when they get their heat up.

[Shadowferal]

Would you say that a rape victim that viciously argued with her attacker before the rape should have been nicer?

A rape victim can get away with murder and you wouldn't blame her for a second when she kills her attacker.

[Shadowferal]

That isn’t the question. And the asshole being yelled at wasn’t a victim. He was the one who created victims when he executed them in the street.

Yes and we have three dead bodies... That's the reality.. Pretty much a "no one gives a shit playing what if" at this point.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

A rape victim can get away with murder and you wouldn't blame her for a second when she kills her attacker.

I wouldn't blame a rape victim for killing her attacker...because that's self defense. But i didn't ask about that

Why can't you answer the question that I asked?

Would you say that a rape victim that viciously argued with her attacker before the rape should have been nicer?

[Shadowferal]

I wouldn't blame a rape victim for killing her attacker...because that's self defense. But i didn't ask about that
Why can't you answer the question that I asked?

Meaningless trivial word games. Why can't you accept reality?

[Shadowferal]

Weird stance considering you care enough to post multiple times about the topic...

I was bored.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

“Don’t you dare try to help people be less ignorant! That’s rude as shit!” - Some person who wasn’t involved trying to appear superior

This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. Senseless derailment of the thread into an issue that doesn't matter. So, fine, I withdraw my objection. If you want to give us all a practical lesson in the differences between clips and magazines, do so with my complete blessing. I will no longer interfere with your teachings, sensei.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Meaningless trivial word games. Why can't you accept reality?

Why can't you answer a simple question?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Then why did you take issue with a friendly piece of information being offered?

Again, I withdraw my objection. I no longer take issue with you sharing your wisdom, great master.

[Shadowferal]

So go jerk off. We don’t need you trolling about a tragic situation.

Yes..tragic .. Anything you want to add before we can safely say this thread is dead?

[Nastard]

Yes..tragic .. Anything you want to add before we can safely say this thread is dead?

Sure, grats on 22,222 posts.