"Pay to win"

[Argorwal]

Hell no. It's an RPG, you don't just skip parts of it to get to the end. In TBC you didn't skip to level 58 because the developers wanted you to experience it above all else. They knew what an RPG was supposed to be like, and to give new players some help in TBC they didn't go for an incredibly lazy and excessively greedy money-grabbing option, they reduced the experience required and added additional content to make things better and more fun in the old world. It's an expansion, not a separate game.

What did they add to the old world to make it better as part of TBC? Draenei/Blood Elves?

Also this isn’t TBC, this is TBC classic. It’s about experiencing TBC all over again, not just a verbatim vanilla -> TBC progression.

TBC is about walking through the dark portal on day one. That’s what TBC classic is all about.

[arkanon]

There is an advantage, the fact that you can run yourself through the dungeon yourself and carry yourself while someone with one account can’t, is the definition of an advantage. You understand I can make a completely bullet list for the boost as well to dismantle your argument that it’s not an advantage as well if you really want to do this lol.

Getting the 58 boost

-doesn’t get you anything you can’t get if you don’t buy it in the first place (does this sound familiar?)
-you still have to level to 70 anyway (does this sound familiar)
-you don’t have any professions so you still need to go back and do those.


I can go either route you want to buddy. Do you want to dismantle ‘advantages’ and explain away why they aren’t REALLY advantages, or do you still want to claim every advantage no matter how small is pay to win.

Honestly I can go either way, you’re so wrong I literally can’t lose this argument if I tried to.

There is no advantage - running yourself through a dungeon isnt an advantage - its something anyone can do at any stage, without buying a second account. Its really that simple, and you have literally ZERO response to that fact.

And please, tell me exactly how someone can instantly skip 58 levels of content without paying for the boost?

[Fisher557]

There is no advantage - running yourself through a dungeon isnt an advantage - its something anyone can do at any stage, without buying a second account. Its really that simple, and you have literally ZERO response to that fact.

Really anyone can run themselves through DM as a level 15? All by themselves? Please explain to me how you do this.

It’s funny you’re like trump, the moment you know you’re wrong you just say “nope, wrong” when it is so blatantly correct it might as well be 1+1=2 lol


Also wait a minute you just fucked up your argument AGAIN now you’re claiming that because you can do something in game without the ‘purchase’ of something else, it’s not an advantage. So by your new definition boosts aren’t an advantage because you can just level to 58 yourself lol. Dude you keep fucking this up I think your head is going to explode

[Ludvig]

What did they add to the old world to make it better as part of TBC? Draenei/Blood Elves?

Also this isn’t TBC, this is TBC classic. It’s about experiencing TBC all over again, not just a verbatim vanilla -> TBC progression.

TBC is about walking through the dark portal on day one. That’s what TBC classic is all about.

They reduced the experience required for 1-60, added quests and quest hubs (apart from blood elf/draenei hubs) and later on in TBC also introduced recruit-a-friend. They would never think for a second to introduce boosts. TBC wasn't about being a separate game, it was an expansion to an already huge game that people are now just trying to ignore for their instant gratification purposes. It's not like you're missing out on a huge part of the game because you have to level first, leveling is also a big part.

[Fisher557]

They reduced the experience required for 1-60, added quests and quest hubs (apart from blood elf/draenei hubs) and later on in TBC also introduced recruit-a-friend. They would never think for a second to introduce boosts. TBC wasn't about being a separate game, it was an expansion to an already huge game that people are now just trying to ignore for their instant gratification purposes. It's not like you're missing out on a huge part of the game because you have to level first, leveling is also a big part.

Well guess what we aren’t in retail tbc friend. It’s classic tbc.

[Talon8669]

It's a p2w feature that anyone who wants to be competitive on alliance shaman or horde paladin will have to use, for sure.

Doesn't work with the new races. So na won't be a deal.

[arkanon]

Really anyone can run themselves through DM as a level 15? All by themselves? Please explain to me how you do this.

It’s funny you’re like trump, the moment you know you’re wrong you just say “nope, wrong” when it is so blatantly correct it might as well be 1+1=2 lol


Also wait a minute you just fucked up your argument AGAIN now you’re claiming that because you can do something in game without the ‘purchase’ of something else, it’s not an advantage. So by your new definition boosts aren’t an advantage because you can just level to 58 yourself lol. Dude you keep fucking this up I think your head is going to explode

What on earth are you talking about? You continue to say a lot, without once answering the questions being posed to you. I never once said a lvl 15 could run themselves through DM - this is called a strawman argument - its used when someone realizes their argument is falling apart, and they are unable to counter any of the points actually being raised, so they simply introduce a new talking point that no one has made, and then proceed to argue about that.

A lvl 15 character is perfectly capable of running through DM, either with a group of appropriately geared players, getting a friend / guildy to run them through, or paying someone with gold. Based on this, there is no advantage to paying for two accounts to boost your alt.

A lvl 1 character cannot instantly become lvl 58 - UNLESS THEY PURCHASE THE BOOST.

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Doesn't work with the new races. So na won't be a deal.

I think you might be the 30th person to reply to that quote, i almost feel bad for them TBH.

[Ludvig]

Well guess what we aren’t in retail tbc friend. It’s classic tbc.

I know, and it's sickening to see what Blizzard has become.

[arkanon]

I know, and it's sickening to see what Blizzard has become.

I mean, the entire industry has changed so dramatically over the last two decades, hell, even in the last 5 years. I do agree that its a shame Blizzard have "fallen from grace", but I personally never really held them above any other devs. I think the recent drama with CP2077, from one of the nerds most glamorized devs who could do no wrong shows that even the golden child is susceptible to mistakes, failures, and monumental cockups.

Overall, I did like a few of Blizzards games, not just Warcraft / WoW, and when i saw their focus on "new" stuff like Hearthstone, Overwatch, and Hots - i got genuinely excited - that excitement has been replaced by frustration and just endless "what if" questions.

[Fisher557]

What on earth are you talking about? You continue to say a lot, without once answering the questions being posed to you. I never once said a lvl 15 could run themselves through DM - this is called a strawman argument - its used when someone realizes their argument is falling apart, and they are unable to counter any of the points actually being raised, so they simply introduce a new talking point that no one has made, and then proceed to argue about that.

A lvl 15 character is perfectly capable of running through DM, either with a group of appropriately geared players, getting a friend / guildy to run them through, or paying someone with gold. Based on this, there is no advantage to paying for two accounts to boost your alt.

A lvl 1 character cannot instantly become lvl 58 - UNLESS THEY PURCHASE THE BOOST.

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I think you might be the 30th person to reply to that quote, i almost feel bad for them TBH.

See when you add other people into this you’re admitting, whether you know it or not, that there is an advantage. If you need other people to do something you could do yourself if you bought something, that’s an advantage.

Ok so it seems you don’t understand the scenario I’m explaining to you, don’t worry I understand exactly how your brain works so I’ll slow down a bit.

There’s two people with level 60’s let’s just use you and I as an example.

We both have mages but we both want to reroll warlocks for tbc. We are both like “you know what let’s reroll warlocks at the same time so we can play tbc with warlocks!”

Well we both start our leveling, except the only difference is you make your warlock on your main account while I decide “I’m going to pay to dual box so this goes quicker”

Well now you’re stuck doing quests, looking for groups to do group quests, or just plain old grinding in order to hit end level.

But guess what I get to do? Once I’m a level high enough to enter dungeons I get to run myself over and over and over and over again essentially powerleveling myself.

I have the advantage over you. Infinitely.

[Jonnusthegreat]

And please, tell me exactly how someone can instantly skip 58 levels of content without paying for the boost?

You could play a game that is not Burning Crusade and when Burning Crusade launches you can instantly skip 58 levels of content without paying for the boost.

[arkanon]

See when you add other people into this you’re admitting, whether you know it or not, that there is an advantage. If you need other people to do something you could do yourself if you bought something, that’s an advantage.

Ok so it seems you don’t understand the scenario I’m explaining to you, don’t worry I understand exactly how your brain works so I’ll slow down a bit.

There’s two people with level 60’s let’s just use you and I as an example.

We both have mages but we both want to reroll warlocks for tbc. We are both like “you know what let’s reroll warlocks at the same time so we can play tbc with warlocks!”

Well we both start our leveling, except the only difference is you make your warlock on your main account while I decide “I’m going to pay to dual box so this goes quicker”

Well now you’re stuck doing quests, looking for groups to do group quests, or just plain old grinding in order to hit end level.

But guess what I get to do? Once I’m a level high enough to enter dungeons I get to run myself over and over and over and over again essentially powerleveling myself.

I have the advantage over you. Infinitely.

first off, its not infinitely - there is an instance lockout lockout. You can only do 5 an hour, or 30 in a 24 hour period. It seems you dont understand how things work at all, to be honest.

Secondly, you provide an interesting scenario - you will dual box yourself through, but not take your friend along? Why not? Oh, for the sake of trying to make yourself right. But far more importantly, you interestingly only provide 2 options - "looking for groups to do quests, or grinding" - while completely ignoring the very real scenario where a friend simply runs you through the same dungeons......or finding a group for the same dungeon.....or paying someone gold to run you through those same dungeons.......Why are you completely ignoring those examples? Is it because they completely dismantle your argument? I suspect that might be the reason.

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You could play a game that is not Burning Crusade and when Burning Crusade launches you can instantly skip 58 levels of content without paying for the boost.

Sorry, but I have literally no clue what you are trying to say here.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Sorry, but I have literally no clue what you are trying to say here.

How to instantly skip 58 levels of content without paying for a boost.

[arkanon]

How to instantly skip 58 levels of content without paying for a boost.

I'm lost, you'll need to clarify how waiting for the launch of TBC classic will allow you to skip 58 levels of content without paying a cent?

[Fisher557]

first off, its not infinitely - there is an instance lockout lockout. You can only do 5 an hour, or 30 in a 24 hour period. It seems you dont understand how things work at all, to be honest.

Secondly, you provide an interesting scenario - you will dual box yourself through, but not take your friend along? Why not? Oh, for the sake of trying to make yourself right. But far more importantly, you interestingly only provide 2 options - "looking for groups to do quests, or grinding" - while completely ignoring the very real scenario where a friend simply runs you through the same dungeons......or finding a group for the same dungeon.....or paying someone gold to run you through those same dungeons.......Why are you completely ignoring those examples? Is it because they completely dismantle your argument? I suspect that might be the reason.

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Sorry, but I have literally no clue what you are trying to say here.

Oh you're really struggling with yourself now aren't you lol

You understand what you're doing right now right? You are avoiding the point I'm making and you're trying to make it sound like it's LESS of an advantage than I'm saying. Also I love how you keep on brining up "brining in other people to help you" as a defense for this lol. IF YOU NEED OTHER PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING THEN YOU ARE WEAKER THAN SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T.

You are missing out on the point friend, I have the advantage no? Yes or no. And please for the love of god say no because if you do your argument for the boost advantage is dead.

[sam86]

Even if Blizzard didn't offer this, people would still be boosting characters, just by paying for dungeon boosts instead of paying Blizzard, so nothing really changed.

'ppl still kill each others, so we should just kill them'
'ppl still will take cocaine even if it is illegal, so we should just let ppl do drugs'
I agree that this boost isn't p2w, just abusing idiots who are willing to pay a full game price for just a boost, but the concept of allowing something because 'ppl do it anyway' is wrong, because lot of ppl do wrong stuff, law exist for a reason
this is almost like say that buying gold is illegal for years, so u sell it urself, oh wait...

[SmokesTooMuch]

I love that both sides of this argument are literally just people with their hands over their ears, screaming at each other that their opinion and only theirs is correct.

LA LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA lol

[valax]

The Level 58 boost kinda ruins the game.

lmao get this fucker outta here , it ruins your pockets not the game

[Frozenbro]

These classic purists (cause i dont know how else to call them without insults) still believe leveling qualifies as content after these many years of lvling being irrelevant and the focus being the endgame, you guys think that when some1 says "i wanna play TBC" they refer to leveling from 1-60 and doing all those trash classic dungeons? obviously not, people wanna play TBC dungeons, TBC raids and TBC pvp, as soon as TBC launches no one wants to bother with anything related to classic, get that in your little skull and stop complaining about a boost that helps you avoid the shitty part of the game, and dont use the "you shouldnt skip the leveling, its part of an rpg" cause the moment blizz started releasing expansions, the focus was the endgame, i dont agree with you, many others dont agree with you and mainly Blizz doesnt agree with you, so drop it.

[arkanon]

Oh you're really struggling with yourself now aren't you lol

You understand what you're doing right now right? You are avoiding the point I'm making and you're trying to make it sound like it's LESS of an advantage than I'm saying. Also I love how you keep on brining up "brining in other people to help you" as a defense for this lol. IF YOU NEED OTHER PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING THEN YOU ARE WEAKER THAN SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T.

You are missing out on the point friend, I have the advantage no? Yes or no. And please for the love of god say no because if you do your argument for the boost advantage is dead.

Boosting character through content with higher level characters can be done equally, or even more efficiently without paying for a second account. This is a massive difference to literally skipping 58 levels, its entirely bypassing the process of getting from 1-58. There is no in game version of this skip - you cannot unlock a certain token on your main and then gift it to an alt granting it 58 levels.

Your argument relies on boosting a character by purchasing two accounts and paying two subs giving you an advantage over others players - and it doesnt.

The closest thing we ever had was when you used RAF and could "gift" levels to other characters - i loved watching some lowbie walk into ironforge suddenly ding a couple dozen times - always made ppl who were unaware of the system freak out.