Is the GOP in a Civil War?

[Felya]

Strong disagree. You should also take into account the unseen, as that is a large part of society. The criminal underworld, the undocumented borderline, everything done out of sight of government and academia by common people. That is why 'facts' won't ever capture the true essence of reality and what is really going on and why effective policy should never be based on facts and academic truths alone.

No, I am sorry... if feelings matter, then I feel that you don’t exist... that’s a paradox...

[The Butt Witch]

There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).

Polls show Trump still has an over 70% approval with the Republican voters, so obviously the idea for any political party is to cater to what the supporters want, in order to get voted, and the Republicans supporters want Trump. The major fear is that if they don't give them Trump, then they will never beat the Democrats again because people won't vote for them, and another fear is that Trump may decide to start his own party and bite off a huge chunk from the GOP base, which will also lead to them never having the votes to beat the Democrats ever again since the votes would be split between two parties.

Imo, the GOP has no choice but to get Trump on their side, or it's over, and that means getting rid of the above among others.

[Felya]

There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).

Out of those people, if you add Trump to them, guess who would be the only former registered democrat? Guess which one had Hillary Clinton at their wedding? Guess which one just made conservatives look like fools, by replacing the American flag, with Trump’s?

You know who I think the former democrat destroying the GOP is?

Edit: Out of the people you listed and Trump, who was the only one to donate to both... Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris campaign? Hint... It’s Trump...

[echowisp]

I think if Trump supporters splinter from the Republicans you probably won't see another Republican president for a while. I'm probably wrong though but at this point I think anything can happen. Do you think Texas could be in play?

[Felya]

I think if Trump supporters splinter from the Republicans you probably won't see another Republican president for a while. I'm probably wrong though but at this point I think anything can happen. Do you think Texas could be in play?

There has been only one popular vote win for a Republican, in over 30 years... they don’t have a lot to split...

[cubby]

Out of those people, if you add Trump to them, guess who would be the only former registered democrat? Guess which one had Hillary Clinton at their wedding? Guess which one just made conservatives look like fools, by replacing the American flag, with Trump’s?

You know who I think the former democrat destroying the GOP is?

Edit: Out of the people you listed and Trump, who was the only one to donate to both... Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris campaign? Hint... It’s Trump...

@Pro-Violence
Can you guys take this to the COVID thread please?

[kail]

There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).

Polls show Trump still has an over 70% approval with the Republican voters, so obviously the idea for any political party is to cater to what the supporters want, in order to get voted, and the Republicans supporters want Trump. The major fear is that if they don't give them Trump, then they will never beat the Democrats again because people won't vote for them, and another fear is that Trump may decide to start his own party and bite off a huge chunk from the GOP base, which will also lead to them never having the votes to beat the Democrats ever again since the votes would be split between two parties.

Imo, the GOP has no choice but to get Trump on their side, or it's over, and that means getting rid of the above among others.

So in a nutshell: It's Trump or GTFO?

[Felya]

@Pro-Violence
Can you guys take this to the COVID thread please?

You quoted me responding to someone else, several post after I ended it... :/

[The Butt Witch]

So in a nutshell: It's Trump or GTFO?

Yes. Pretty much. Trump is the hill to die on. That's IF the GOP chooses to die.

[cubby]

There are two kinds of members in the GOP right now: republicans and undercover democrats. The idea is to get rid of these undercover democrats (for example: Bill Cassidy, Richard Burr, Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, etc).

Polls show Trump still has an over 70% approval with the Republican voters, so obviously the idea for any political party is to cater to what the supporters want, in order to get voted, and the Republicans supporters want Trump. The major fear is that if they don't give them Trump, then they will never beat the Democrats again because people won't vote for them, and another fear is that Trump may decide to start his own party and bite off a huge chunk from the GOP base, which will also lead to them never having the votes to beat the Democrats ever again since the votes would be split between two parties.

Imo, the GOP has no choice but to get Trump on their side, or it's over, and that means getting rid of the above among others.

I disagree about your category of "undercover" democrats. Those people you listed (Romney especially) are just moderate versions of the GOP. That might be for a separate discussion though.

Trump still commands majority support in the GOP, as you pointed out, and that will be tough to deal with if the GOP tries to slough him off. I also agree that the only chance the GOP has to survive in it's current form is to fully embrace Trump. But we already know top leadership in the GOP doesn't want to do that - McConnell and Romney - so we will indeed be seeing some kind of civil war.

[Theodarzna]

So in a nutshell: It's Trump or GTFO?

For the GOP, its basically Populism or failure. The energy is leaving that "Corporations are people my friend" Warhawk Nikki Haley types, and the Dems are absorbing that lane pretty quickly except for the corporations involved in resource extraction like Oil, Gas and Coal.

Plus a lot of this is contingent on the Democrats likely, and inevitable, continued march along the trajectory of Neo-Liberalism. As the Democrats have utterly rebuked any sort of moderate DemSoc positions like Bernie Sanders, even having a vicious hatred of the guy, I see the destiny of the DNC to fill that role of the Pro-Market, Free Trade, War Hawk, and Fiscally stingy but socially very liberal and big on representation and HR friendly IdPol stuff.

The GOP, well, i mean they already lost corporate America save for some petro-chemical companies. They don't have the National Security State so the Spook-Respectors are all in on the DNC.

Just in terms of voters, you go where the voters are.

[Felya]

Yes. Pretty much. Trump is the hill to die on. That's IF the GOP chooses to die.

That means their death is inevitable...

[cubby]

I think if Trump supporters splinter from the Republicans you probably won't see another Republican president for a while. I'm probably wrong though but at this point I think anything can happen. Do you think Texas could be in play?

Agreed. Especially if the newly formed Party of Trump were able to get people on ballots in all 50 states.

[Machismo]

Is there an overview somewhere on what or who this $2 trillion dollar package will benefit? I'm likewise sceptical about the majority of that money ending up in the hands or at the benefit of common citizens.

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Found it:

1. COVID-19 containment and vaccination, aid to state and local governments, and increased federal spending ($750 billion): this category includes both the direct $350 billion in state and local aid, as well as money for vaccination, testing and tracing, and reopening schools;
2. Direct aid to families ($600 billion): this category includes the $1400 per person rebate checks and the child tax credit expansion;
3. Aid to financially vulnerable households ($400 billion): this category includes the additional $400 per week in unemployment benefits and the extension of the pandemic unemployment programs; and
4. Aid to businesses ($150 billion): this category includes loans and grants to small businesses and paid sick leave.

Seems reasonable... Just wondering when they're going to finally push it through then, they've been apparently promising this for the past few months without making much happen yet.

Feel free to look it up.

The issue isn't the Democrats, who almost all support it... Blaming them seems rather foolish, which is what Theo has consistently done.

[Felya]

For the GOP, its basically Populism or failure. The energy is leaving that "Corporations are people my friend" Warhawk Nikki Haley types, and the Dems are absorbing that lane pretty quickly except for the corporations involved in resource extraction like Oil, Gas and Coal.

How exactly are they absorbing that lane, without cow stepping fossil fuels and the military industrial complex? Through big tech? GOP populism includes all that and lead by an actual oligarch... like a real one...

[cubby]

Feel free to look it up.

The issue isn't the Democrats, who almost all support it... Blaming them seems rather foolish, which is what Theo has consistently done.

Can you please take this to the COVID thread?

[Machismo]

Can you please take this to the COVID thread?

Sure thing, this was just stemming from Theo trying to blame the Democrats for the actions and behaviors of the GOP.

[cubby]

Liz Cheney (GOP House Rep WY) in a speech yesterday saying:

"It's very important, especially for us as Republicans, to make clear that we aren't the party of White supremacy," she said at an event at at the Reagan Institute. Of the January 6 riot at the US Capitol, Cheney added: "You certainly saw anti-Semitism. You saw the symbols of Holocaust denial. ... You saw a Confederate flag being carried through the rotunda. We, as Republicans in particular, have a duty and an obligation to stand against that, to stand against insurrection."

This is what desperation looks like. And Cheney is a pretty good GOP Rep, as they go.

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How exactly are they absorbing that lane, without cow stepping fossil fuels and the military industrial complex? Through big tech? GOP populism includes all that and lead by an actual oligarch... like a real one...

I mean, how close were we to losing everything to the Trump Imperial Dynasty, if he'd won in Nov? Fucking outright frightening.

The GOP populism section might be the piece that breaks off, if a Party of Trump is formed.

[Paranoid Android]

I fucking hope so. If they aren't there yet, the GOP is certainly moving in that direction. I hope the Party of Trump gets launched soon. Divide that ticket!

The sad part is there are enough who really think tax cuts and deregulation is worth Fascism. I read one poll today that Dems gained +20 advantage in white educated, basically suburbs who voted Republican mainly for the tax cats. Is this enough? The scary thing always was there is actually a large number of White un-educated voters who never vote or not registered. Anyways do enough "sensible" Republicans get it through their thick head they need to just leave that party.

It's happened before but not in my time or any of us I believe where parties fractured. This is amazing to me since it does seem Party over Country is the oath here. So the ones who should break; "Do they love the power" too much? Do they again say "a little fascism so we can get our tax cuts".

I don't see after how and insurrection actually happened you didn't leave the party.

A funny oh btw and I can find article/tweet, Pence says he maintains contact and a close friendship with Trump. I guess Pence is a religious fanatic and those people are definitely the fascists part of the Republican wing.

[Felya]

I mean, how close were we to losing everything to the Trump Imperial Dynasty, if he'd won in Nov? Fucking outright frightening.

The GOP populism section might be the piece that breaks off, if a Party of Trump is formed.

The populism is inherent in both parties, but until Trump, the dichotomy was different. The success Trump had is in muddying the waters between the populism of democrats, which in my history been about middle income and working class, with the military industrial complex and patriotism associated with the military of GOP.

Look at the language used... Before Trump, it’s fossil fuels and big oil. Now it’s “mineral extraction” and “big tech”... I don’t even understand how Trump, the man who increased bombing and arm sales beyond any previous president... literally campaigning on ‘bomb the shit out of them, then give their oil to Exxon’... Is now defending “mineral extraction”...

That’s what I meant by no clear division line between Trump and establishment. One supports the military complex and fossil fuels, while the other support jobs that are exclusive to “mineral extraction” and patriotism of spending on the military. It’s very difficult to reason with people who support an oligarch and establishment that goes back to Rockefeller oil monopoly, but considers people who made it in the last 20 years through “Big Tech” to be oligarchs.

In the end... is the dividing GOP line a real policy issue, or is it vernacular?

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I don’t know if you have seen this in leftist media... but, I often hear... this person is a pipeline to GOP or nazis... but, they never examine why. They never go beyond that obvious conclusion, to understand what vehicle creates this pipeline. That pipeline is populism and democrats simply can’t compete on guns and trickle down. While it seems like the GOP can compete on populism working class and middle income, while running an oligarch. I don’t think democrats can get away with running PETA chairman, as a murder all animals candidate...

I think that’s part of what makes it seem like there is a civil war. People might think there is a difference between favoring Trump vs establishment, but the legislators know there is no difference. They will go on the air, acting like they all are pristine human beings, to counter the bloviating of Trump cult, but they will vote on the same whorish things... they will fight for the same policy... it’s two pigs fighting and for some reason, people mistake the Orange make up on one pig, as if he is different... that shit washes off...