Civil war is a bit dramatic. Parties are always changing and shifting around to see what works and what doesn't. The GOP and Democrats basically just turn some knobs every 4-8 years so it doesn't matter that much anyways.
Civil war is a bit dramatic. Parties are always changing and shifting around to see what works and what doesn't. The GOP and Democrats basically just turn some knobs every 4-8 years so it doesn't matter that much anyways.
I agree that Trump wasn't a leader, but he certainly took control of the GOP like no other in a generation. And retains that figurehead status even now, with Insurrection & Rape & Financial felony charges bearing down on him. So while objectively he did nothing, the blithering masses who follow him believe he's done everything - if that makes sense.
And I hope this blind appear to idiocy creates that splintered faction, dividing the GOP votes across the country.
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The big divide is blatant white supremacy along with populism on a scale we haven't seen in at least a generation. And I fundamentally disagree with your "both sides" argument on populism - it's entirely NOT part of the Democrats. Perhaps we are disagreeing on the definition of populism though....
The language being used is, imo, irrelevant. In Trump we see racism and violence and party-above-country in stunning starkness. And that's what we're fighting against here - and what we say defeat that, to a point, in Nov 2020.
The divide we're seeing in the GOP right now is between those more historical GOP members and the Party of Trump.
Oh this is juicy!!
Q: Do you believe former President Trump should speaking at CPAC?
GOPLeader
: "Yes he should."
RepLizCheney
: "That's up to CPAC....I don't believe that he should be playing a role in the future of the party or the country."
McCarthy: "On that high note, thank you very much."
But this is great here.
Hey Liz- Trump got 74 million votes; you 186,000. A lot of us think Trump has a role but you don’t.
Hmm? So Mike Huckabee is making a big deal over state population and how many votes you get. I think Mike wants to revamp Congressional Representatives and possible Electoral College.
Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2021-02-24 at 10:03 PM.
Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!
If there's anything I've learned from the last two decades of Republican Legislating is that staying in control comes far before believing in any cohesive type of policy that they don't just pay lip service too (remember Trump's bloated deficit the next time a deficit hawk starts crying about democrat spending).
So the old-school/classic GOPers will pay lip service to moderates about not supporting extremists, but they'll continue to not actually do anything about it until enough voting cycles pass and replace them all with more folks like Hawley or Greene or Boebert and effectively repeats the Tea Party takeover of '09. Just stocked up with more violent psychopaths and r/conspiracy regulars.
Last edited by Xyonai; 2021-02-24 at 10:26 PM.
But, the issue there is the blatant... as in... vernacular...
It’s not both sides, but politics are always populist.And I fundamentally disagree with your "both sides" argument on populism - it's entirely NOT part of the Democrats. Perhaps we are disagreeing on the definition of populism though....
What policy would a Trump Republican vote for, that an establishment republicans wouldn’t?The language being used is, imo, irrelevant. In Trump we see racism and violence and party-above-country in stunning starkness. And that's what we're fighting against here - and what we say defeat that, to a point, in Nov 2020.
The divide we're seeing in the GOP right now is between those more historical GOP members and the Party of Trump.
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
His current followers are likely never to leave. We do have some people who "always vote 'Publican" no matter what, of course. Even if/when Trump is jailed, they will continue to follow him.
And that kind of cult-of-personality is exactly the kind of thing that can splinter a political party. Especially when we have moderate Republicans looking to "save" the party. The only question is whether Trump can retain control of the GOP or if he will have to form his own party.
Populism is actually a both side things so to speak it's more of a package you can use to wrap anything historically speaking. As for the divide in the GOP I honestly don't think there is one look at the past this is the party of the southern strategy, Richard Nixon the list goes on and on. This has always been in their DNA all Trump did was say the quiet part out loud. They didn't just wake up the party of Trump they have been appealing to that part of the country for decades and wrapping it up in "conservative values".
The only good thing from Trump's 4 years is that he exposed the GOP for what it is the fascism party. The family values and fiscal conservatism pitch went out the window and they all took out their klan robes or pretended to see nothing for judges.
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
I mean there KINDA is or was a Left Populism but the DNC crushed that quick. More over got all of you to vote for more or less the last living Dixiecrat who isn't going to close down the kids in cages, won't be raising that wages, won't cancel a dime of debt, isn't going to give you health care and already waffled down from 2k to 1.4k on checks which have no arrival date.
Left Populism functionally doesn't exist.
On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.
The GOP isn't in a civil war.
In reality, it's a bunch of Trumpsters crapping all over the place, and a few semi-sane people trying to lie to the world that it doesn't smell like shit. They are simply hoping that the Trumpsters vote as enthusiastically as they shit on the floor.
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The DNC didn't crush anything, that is a lie perpetuated by you Trumpsters.
Bernie lost, get over it.
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
What are you even on about populism isn't about any policy or side you can use it to push whatever agenda you want that is my point. Trump was against all the things you listed yet you defended him, no amount of whining is going to change the fact that Trump would be worse than almost any democrat that ran on the primary.
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Unless Trump is unable to do so it looks like he will be the nominee in 2024 and will continue to funnel money from his victims until then. The right wing of this country has taken the masks off and we need to accept it, the press wants to weave a narrative of a civil war but the numbers don't bear it out. If you look at the impeachment the supposed "principled" conservatives are a small minority, let's not forget they were all complicit for four years.
The fact that even after the insurrection the right wing supports this guy is damming.
It looks like it now, but that is still 3.5+ years away. And a LOT can happen in those three years.
The press can do whatever it wants, but they are not where I'm drawing my conclusions and opinion from. I see GOP leaders (McConnell, Romney, Cheney) wanting to be done with Trump - and they are speaking freely about it. Which means there is already a large rift in the GOP. And there is nothing currently going on to make that rift an issue (no election, etc). Only CPAC is going on now, and lines are being drawn even there. One major aspect in examining the lack of GOP'ers speaking out against Trump during the Trump Residency is that to do so was political suicide. So they didn't. Now, however, they can without the same repercussions - and they are.
Obviously we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out. If Trump can hold onto the reigns (I spelled the purposefully) of GOP power, then he does. But if he can't, and he still wants and needs power (which he does, obviously), then the Party of Trump might be borne. And if it is, the GOP is fucked. Seriously and catastrophically FUCKED. Because a solidly backed neo-con third party will split the "Republican" vote and put the Democrats in a very good position to gain serious ground in the Senate and House, along with retaining the White House.
It's one of the reasons I think McConnell is pushing for Trump investigation/prosecution. It's also one of the reasons I think the Democrats should not attempt to bar Trump from future office with an obscure Constitutional provision.