Have We Become Overly Critical?

[LionSinMaikeru]

What do you suppose prevents some players from just being excited to still have new content and millions of other players?

The fact that we've been supporting the game for over a decade and can distinguish good gameplay / content from bad gameplay / content.

No. Remaining critical is how you get improvements made.

Exactly. IMO there's no such thing as being "too critical" when we're funding the project, so to speak.

And I'd argue Blizzard should consider themselves lucky so many people have lasting attachments to WoW. They're still raking in hundreds of millions each year (billions when you count merchandise revenue) despite releasing more C/D grade expansions than they probably should have.

[Ashleyxoxo]

I'm going to say something controversial, but I feel like it needs to be said. $15 a month is what, 50 cents a day. $40 once every two years is 5.5 cents a day. Most of us probably spend far more than that on far more useless crap everyday. Hell, before they shut down it would cost what, $40 to see a movie for 2 hours if you're going with your significant other. We should all fear the day WoW goes free to play. There's enough of that garbage out there.

I spent a decent amount of time between WotLK and BfA looking for alternatives, and none of them have the quality and polish that WoW has. Anyone is free to go play some of the other MMOs out there, but they're all crap. WoW is Blizzard's cash cow, it doesn't just support WoW, but all of Blizzard at this point. It's always ok to criticize Blizzard and their products, we have the right to, but if it isn't funneled into something constructive it will just take longer for the changes to come as Blizzard now has to sift through all the garbage first.

What does it mean to be a “polished” MMO? I think WoW is uglier than FFXIV and ESO, so it can’t be that... right?

[arkanon]

What does it mean to be a “polished” MMO? I think WoW is uglier than FFXIV and ESO, so it can’t be that... right?

And I think ESO is probably the most clunky, awkward, outdated looking MMO on the market today, with probably the worst animations as well. Turns out, these things are quite subjective.

As for polish, I consider it quite literally to some extent - all the rough edges removed, a smooth experience from when you first search the game, purchasing games, paying subs, right through to game systems and menus, gameplay itself such as controls feeling tight and accurate, servers being capable of supporting the demand - I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the idea.

Some games that release are quite cool in theory, but when you actually start trying to buy/load/play the game, you are constantly hitting walls (rough edges) that hinder you in one way or another, through poor design choices, poorly implemented systems, glitches / crashes, confusion - the typical experience when playing any Japanese sub based game from outside Japan.

[Ashleyxoxo]

And I think ESO is probably the most clunky, awkward, outdated looking MMO on the market today, with probably the worst animations as well. Turns out, these things are quite subjective.

As for polish, I consider it quite literally to some extent - all the rough edges removed, a smooth experience from when you first search the game, purchasing games, paying subs, right through to game systems and menus, gameplay itself such as controls feeling tight and accurate, servers being capable of supporting the demand - I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the idea.

Some games that release are quite cool in theory, but when you actually start trying to buy/load/play the game, you are constantly hitting walls (rough edges) that hinder you in one way or another, through poor design choices, poorly implemented systems, glitches / crashes, confusion - the typical experience when playing any Japanese sub based game from outside Japan.

I agree that ESO’s models and animations are weak, but the zones are beautiful.

I get what you mean by polish, but how is a game that has 70% of the screen covered in menus and addons considered “the most polished MMO”?

[TheVaryag]

It's no secret who supports Blizz and who crucifies them with every, single decision; however, I have to wonder...

have we become overcritical of a 15 year old MMO that continues to get updates? Ultima Online, EverQuest and World of Warcraft have been around for a long while and still have a large and dedicated fanbase, yet other MMOs like Aion, LotRO, Warhammer, Age of Conan, and even Guild Wars 2 all set out to dethrone the long standing favorites and eventually faded into nothingness. What do you suppose prevents some players from just being excited to still have new content and millions of other players?

Sadly they are the ones not open enough to hearing criticism. I'd say the fans of WoW have been rightfully critical It's just blizzard has been wrongfully with their fingers in their ears going "lalalalalalalalalalalala" tbh

[OMGTwitchTV]

I'm going to say something controversial, but I feel like it needs to be said. $15 a month is what, 50 cents a day. $40 once every two years is 5.5 cents a day. Most of us probably spend far more than that on far more useless crap everyday.

55 cents per day for entertainment, and support with constantly updated content, cosmetics, and more feels pretty reasonable. How many of us pay $600 a month for health insurance and don't reap anywhere near that benefit? One would think entertainment would be far more expensive than a maintenance plan on the off chance you get the sniffles. Is it extreme hyperbole? Sure. Is it any less true? Not so much.

[stormrage666]

Short answer: No

Long answer: No

[bitterwinter]

I think this is a interesting question. In my view it depends on what you are crticising, how you are doing it and of course - why.

WoW certainly has quite the history given its age and some patches/xpacs have been recieved better than others for a boatload of different reasons. For example I would argue the launch of WoD and Azerite armor are both things that 100% deserve everything they got. Other things? Perhaps not so much. I don't know. The thing with WoW is that every xpac is different, perhaps arguably a different game and of course opinion is subjective. We won't all like the same thing.

All of that said I do think there's a human element to this on both sides, too - I do sometimes really feel for the developers where it is pretty obvious the situation is out of their hands and they take lots of the flak from the community (when it really should be directed to those higher up the chain). But I do also understand being critical of WoW. It's quite the expensive game and you pay a monthly sub on top of the expansions..there is certainly a level of quality that you expect and in recent years sometimes it just hasn't hit the mark.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Or they prioritize other things? I'm not a hardcore raider and I don't care for PvP much, so for me there is only one single thing that WoW does better than Final Fantasy XIV. Magic items actually feel like magic.

But the story, the music, the graphics, the combat, the professions, the side content, the events, the frequency of content updates, the dev communication, the quest design, the gearing, the interface, the character creator...I prefer the latter.

Good for you, demonstrably a whole mess of people disagree, look at any thread asking people why they don't play/what they think the issues are.

In short, people like what they like. No single MMORPG is a perfect creation. Not even Classic WoW, no matter how passionate some feel about it.

[OMGTwitchTV]

What does it mean to be a “polished” MMO? I think WoW is uglier than FFXIV and ESO, so it can’t be that... right?

Something that's polished has been perfected by practice until it appears skilled and elegant. The visuals are simply a part of that. LFD, LFR, AutoLoot, the new AH system, Transmog... all of these sytems being something to the table in terms of polish. While the other games are cute, they do not allow my gnome mage to turn into a blue dragon and fly around Azeroth and other unlocked worlds and zones. Blizz has been at this for 30 years now. Have they perfected it? They've certainly set the standard for other MMOs to walk in an try to knock them off the top slot. I can't imagine ESO or FFXIV have even half of the players in Warcraft, and those players likely also have a WoW account. Something brings us all back to it time and time again. Blizz just seems to have an X factor that everyone else works to display.

- - - Updated - - -

Short answer: No

Long answer: No

I imagine this level of eloquence is likely what drives the critical changes in WoW. Thank you for this contribution.

[arkanon]

I agree that ESO’s models and animations are weak, but the zones are beautiful.

I get what you mean by polish, but how is a game that has 70% of the screen covered in menus and addons considered “the most polished MMO”?

It doesnt? I mean obviously some of the top few percent of players have more information on their screen, but 70% is an obvious exaggeration. With simple addons like DBM, DMG Meter, And some basic WA or similar, you would have roughly 85% of your screen clear. Thats including 20man raid frames obviously.

- - - Updated - - -

Good for you, demonstrably a whole mess of people disagree, look at any thread asking people why they don't play/what they think the issues are.

In short, people like what they like. No single MMORPG is a perfect creation. Not even Classic WoW, no matter how passionate some feel about it.

I think for SOME, this is where the frustration lies - for a HUGE number of people at certain times, WoW was the "perfect creation". Thats where a lot of the frustration seems to come from - 10years ago (for example) Bob thought nothing came even close to wow - it was the best mmo Bob had ever played, and he considered it a solid 10/10 gaming experience.

Over the next 10 years, the game changed a lot, no doubt about it, but so did Bob. And I think this is where a lot of the confusion comes from - people say they want that old style game back, but really they just want to be back at university, smoking weed in the dorms or the flat they rent, playing wow 10 hours a day, having beer for lunch staying up till 4am playing WoW.

So what im trying to say is some of the criticism is somewhat misguided, with those demanding the game go back to how things were in previous expansions, without fully grasping what they actually want. I think Classic showed this to SOME extent, where a lot of my friends who played either in Vanilla or TBC got quite excited about it - "finally, a return to the wow I love!" only to load it up, and their first reaction within a few hours was "oh yeah.........I guess I forgot what it was really like".

[Ashleyxoxo]

It doesnt? I mean obviously some of the top few percent of players have more information on their screen, but 70% is an obvious exaggeration. With simple addons like DBM, DMG Meter, And some basic WA or similar, you would have roughly 85% of your screen clear. Thats including 20man raid frames obviously.

I still disagree that WoW is by far the most polished. PvP is laughably bad, with pillar humping and stupid abilities. They ruined old dungeons with Cata mini-games. Their lore is full of retcons. I could go on. How is that “polished”?

[Dellis0991]

Who is we? I don't set myself up to be disappointed about anything game devs do anymore.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Who is we? I don't set myself up to be disappointed about anything game devs do anymore.

For real, devs now are like kids who never grew up lol. Nothing genius about them anymore.

[arkanon]

I still disagree that WoW is by far the most polished. PvP is laughably bad, with pillar humping and stupid abilities. They ruined old dungeons with Cata mini-games. Their lore is full of retcons. I could go on. How is that “polished”?

You must be aware that these are all nothing more than subjective opinions, right? Which have nothing to do with the "polish" of a game?

[dwarven]

The internet has made us more combative and cynical in our criticism for sure. Part of the reason I can't stand using Twitter. There are so many unpleasant people there it seems like.

[Short]

no, looking at the current state, we are far from "overly critical".

sure, there are a couple of outliers that'll hammer on every minor little detail when they air their grievances about the game.
but even they make a point, if you do a bit more than just take their rant at face value and blow it of as nothing but a sore losers/unlucky ones ramblings.

and not all criticism has to be constructive.
if someone/something is making the same mistake, either by mistake or deliberately, than at some point you can't be any more constructive in your criticism than you have been prior. in blizzards case, as a small ind... uh, massive multi million dollar company. we can be pretty sure that most of what we're currently playing, and how we're playing it, has been carefully thought out and constructed over it's development cycle.

so yeah, #pulltheripcord is a good incentive.
the maw is a pretty shitty zone, and no i don't have to explain why or give any advice on how to fix it.
and Anima acquisition rates are waaaaay to low considering how far we're into the game.

[Ashleyxoxo]

You must be aware that these are all nothing more than subjective opinions, right? Which have nothing to do with the "polish" of a game?

What I’m aware of is that you still haven’t told me what you meant by most polished game. So I’m going to assume you’re dodging.

[arkanon]

What I’m aware of is that you still haven’t told me what you meant by most polished game. So I’m going to assume you’re dodging.

This was literally posted to you, in reply to your comment:

As for polish, I consider it quite literally to some extent - all the rough edges removed, a smooth experience from when you first search the game, purchasing games, paying subs, right through to game systems and menus, gameplay itself such as controls feeling tight and accurate, servers being capable of supporting the demand - I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the idea.

Some games that release are quite cool in theory, but when you actually start trying to buy/load/play the game, you are constantly hitting walls (rough edges) that hinder you in one way or another, through poor design choices, poorly implemented systems, glitches / crashes, confusion - the typical experience when playing any Japanese sub based game from outside Japan.

I even outlined some specific examples for you. Would you like me to outline some more? Maybe I was wrong that you would understand the point being made with only half a dozen examples. Your "examples" are the equivalent of saying "wow is not a polished game because I dont like the music"

Finally, I never claimed wow is the "most polished game", so please avoid relying on this strawman argument.

[Ashleyxoxo]

This was literally posted to you, in reply to your comment:



I even outlined some specific examples for you. Would you like me to outline some more? Maybe I was wrong that you would understand the point being made with only half a dozen examples. Your "examples" are the equivalent of saying "wow is not a polished game because I dont like the music"

Lol WoW’s shoddy design is “polished”? Good joke.