The "Tradwife"

[Cthulhu 2020]

A tradwife (short for traditional wife) is a neologism that denotes a woman who prefers to take a traditional or ultra-traditional role in marriage, including the belief that a woman's place is in the home and that wives should submit to their husband's authority.[1][2] Some may have chosen to leave careers in business or in public life to focus instead on their families and raising children. They tend to agree with statements like "a woman's place is in the home"

Quote from the wikipedia page for tradwife.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...erve-h6k5rzgbd

Preface: I have nothing against people living how they want to live, as long as it doesn't hurt (physically, emotionally, etc) anybody else, and as long as you are not trying to force others to live how you live. You do you, that said...

The concept of the tradwife is not a new one. Conservatives have been pushing against the rise of strong independent women and touting the virtues of traditional women since the rise of women's suffrage. Of course, it was a cultural issue since long, before that. Different cultures have different traditional roles for men and women, but for a long time the west was dominated by an almost hyper-patriarchal view on gender roles. Before the women's rights movements that happened throughout the 21st century, women who did not ahdere to traditional gender norms were effectively canceled. Removed from their ability to participate in society. This is just another way that conservatives have so little self-awareness to forget that for a long time, as the dominant culture, they canceled anyone who did not adhere to their cultural views.

The 50's, 60's, and 70's saw a rise in women breaking the traditional role of women in the west. The rise of Trump saw a rise in many hyper-conservative nigh fascistic ideologies, including the need for men to control women's lives. The first easily locatable mention of "tradewife" is from an article in January 2020, so the while the concept has been around for a long time, this nomenclature is fairly new.

And while the name and concept now exist, the discussion over the virtues of the tradwife are used almost exclusively by alt-right redpillers. It's a natural progression of the same people who complained about the "Friend zone" in the 2000's and continued on to red pill, pick up artists, and other deeply misogynistic groups.

To nobody's surprise, these types of people who redpill and want a tradwife that "takes care of themself" are usually men with very low physical activity and high caloric intake. Their hygiene is often questionable, and they're all too often found in the spheres of deeply conservative beliefs and even Q level conspiracies.

A tip to anyone that wants a "tradwife": Throw away your red pill shit opinion, exercise, watch your diet, shower regularly, and look in proper circles for women who want that kind of life.

As for the "tradwife", as we've found it's just another conservative dog whistle that attracts all of the deeply misogynistic sect. Effectively, most of the people who use this term call for women in general to lose a lot of their freedoms they've found in the last several decades. It's only a couple of steps short of going full Islam and wanting to cover women in full dark clothing.

If you want to be a traditional wife, just do it. Stop telling everyone they must do the same. No matter how much you think it's what's "destroying the country", just live your own life. The country will only die when people create enough division to rip it apart. Telling others what they "must" do in their lives is the one thing pushing the country towards instability.

[s_bushido]

I don't think it's a very controversial take to say that this shit is obviously stupid and misogynistic. You're probably not going to get much disagreement around here.

[PC2]

As long as the population is stable or growing slightly then I think there is no value in "tradwives" whatsoever. "Trad" in these cases usually just means "limit freedoms and self-determination". If the population starts shrinking though then I would say there is some flaw in non-Trad lifestyles that needs to be addressed.

[Rennadrel]

If you want to be a traditional wife, just do it. Stop telling everyone they must do the same. No matter how much you think it's what's "destroying the country", just live your own life. The country will only die when people create enough division to rip it apart. Telling others what they "must" do in their lives is the one thing pushing the country towards instability.

That is literally the same as telling women that they should pursue careers instead of having families, which a lot of feminists these days do. My whole thing is that people should do what they want, and everyone else should just shut up about it and stop trying to police others lives.

And I'm fine with the concept of traditional relationships being the norm, that isn't even a conservative talking point, it's just logical. Unless of course you want to keep growing the population entirely through immigration rather than through improving birth rates, a certain percentage of the population has to keep reproducing.

[Edge-]

If the population starts shrinking though then I would say there is some flaw in non-Trad relationships that needs to be addressed.

At that point it would still be none of our god-damned business what women choose to do with their bodies. This shouldn't be hard.

[Cthulhu 2020]

That is literally the same as telling women that they should pursue careers instead of having families, which a lot of feminists these days do. My whole thing is that people should do what they want, and everyone else should just shut up about it and stop trying to police others lives.

All of the time, I see conservatives claiming that feminists make these statements, such as the whole "every woman should pursue a career". And yet, when I try to look up information on this, I only ever come upon conservative groups taking one woman's shitty twitter post and claiming that it's statements "feminists" make. The norm among feminist groups is the message "Live your life how you want and don't let anyone stop you from that". I've not seen "YOU MUST FIND A CAREER" from basically anyone EXCEPT conservatives making the claim that this is happening.

[Rennadrel]

All of the time, I see conservatives claiming that feminists make these statements, such as the whole "every woman should pursue a career". And yet, when I try to look up information on this, I only ever come upon conservative groups taking one woman's shitty twitter post and claiming that it's statements "feminists" make. The norm among feminist groups is the message "Live your life how you want and don't let anyone stop you from that". I've not seen "YOU MUST FIND A CAREER" from basically anyone EXCEPT conservatives making the claim that this is happening.

I dunno, maybe that's the case. I'm not particularly conservative myself, but I don't see anything wrong with upholding at least some form of traditional family roles. Definitely not as rigid as they want and have seen it work pretty well that you can have both a career and kids. I have a number of friends who have managed to balance having families and careers, it's just a lot more difficult or you have to time it right. But with wages being the way they are these days, it's certainly more challenging to raise a couple of kids unless one parent is pulling in 6 figures.

[Endus]

If you want to be a homemaker, fine. I'm not gonna claim you shouldn't; it's a fine role and ideally, society should function comfortably with a single wage-earner in a family, if they want to get by like that.

But the idea that it should be preferred by women in general? Fuck that misogynistic nugget-dicked noise.

As long as the population is stable or growing slightly then I think there is no value in "tradwives" whatsoever. "Trad" in these cases usually just means "limit freedoms and self-determination". If the population starts shrinking though then I would say there is some flaw in non-Trad lifestyles that needs to be addressed.

Jawohl. When people do not support your infinite-growth mantra, posit that they should be forced against their will into doing so, or punished for noncompliance.

We've had that rhetoric crop up before. The Nazis were real big fans.

There is absolutely nothing about population levels that suggest growth is even desirable. The only people who make that argument are radical capitalists who worship at the literal impossibility of infinite growth, and see population growth as an integral component; the reality is that a stable population is what should be desired. Growth is only a positive if there's been a significant loss of human life that has caused some kind of issue for society as a whole, and even then, it has to be balanced against just reworking society to adapt to a lower population count, and what measures would be required for either.

Populations are due to shrink, and that's not in any way whatsoever a problem. There's billions of us.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I don't think it's a very controversial take to say that this shit is obviously stupid and misogynistic. You're probably not going to get much disagreement around here.

I doubt I'd find much disagreement here.

The odd part is, while not a ton of people openly state they feel this way, returning to treating women as property and home makers is basically a package deal with most conservative politicians. Like you can't have anti-immigration, low taxes for the rich, voter disenfranchisement, anti-science, pro Trump, etc. without that political ideology also coming packaged with something about returning women to "traditional roles".

For as much as people don't openly support it, they seem just fine with it when it always piggy-backs on every other alt-right lunacy package.

[PC2]

At that point it would still be none of our god-damned business what women choose to do with their bodies. This shouldn't be hard.

they should be forced against their will into doing so, or punished for noncompliance.

If humanity started shrinking because of culture and lifestyle then I would simply try to educate the anti-natalists so that they become pro-natalists. I'm against coercing anyone to do things against their will. If a person does not want the typical marriage+child then I don't want them to have it.

There is absolutely nothing about population levels that suggest growth is even desirable. The only people who make that argument are radical capitalists who worship at the literal impossibility of infinite growth, and see population growth as an integral component; the reality is that a stable population is what should be desired. Growth is only a positive if there's been a significant loss of human life that has caused some kind of issue for society as a whole, and even then, it has to be balanced against just reworking society to adapt to a lower population count, and what measures would be required for either.

Populations are due to shrink, and that's not in any way whatsoever a problem. There's billions of us.

Infinite growth is the only realistic and sustainable strategy that civilization can have. A strategy of finite growth cannot sustain prosperity for any society.

Why would any country want to limit their potential and set some kind of arbitrary boundary? Every behaviour I've seen from people indicates they all believe in infinite growth. It's something where everybody says "growth is finite" out loud but literally no one lives their life based on that premise. They always live in a way that is perfectly appropriate to an infinite growth outlook.

[Calfredd]

If humanity started shrinking because of culture and lifestyle then I would simply try to educate the anti-natalists so that they become pro-natalists. I'm against coercing anyone to do things against their will. If a person does not want the typical marriage+child then I don't want them to have it.


Infinite growth is the only realistic and sustainable strategy that civilization can have. A strategy of finite growth cannot sustain prosperity for any society.

Infinite growth is not realistic and I'm sorry your teachers failed to instill this fact to you. Infinite growth cannot happen just by the very nature that resources are finite.

[PC2]

Infinite growth is not realistic and I'm sorry your teachers failed to instill this fact to you. Infinite growth cannot happen just by the very nature that resources are finite.

We can discover or create an infinite amount of new resources. They are not finite. The world has plenty of resources for everyone.

[Endus]

If humanity started shrinking because of culture and lifestyle then I would simply try to educate the anti-natalists so that they become pro-natalists. I'm against coercing anyone to do things against their will. If a person does not want the typical marriage+child then I don't want them to have it.

To what purpose? You're chasing a literal impossible fantasy. Infinite growth cannot happen. It is literally impossible, and any attempt to pursue it will, necessarily, lead to harm.

Infinite growth is the only realistic and sustainable strategy that civilization can have. A strategy of finite growth cannot sustain prosperity for any society.

"Finite growth" implies an end point, which means it's actually about "sustainability", not "growth" at all.

And infinite growth is not realistic. It's delusional. It's as nonsensical and unreasonable as believing the Earth is flat, or that one can paddle their way to Mars in a canoe.

Growth is absolutely unnecessary for a society to be successful. I don't know where you pulled that nugget of nonsense from, but it is not and has never been true, and any philosopher pushing that is an idiot who would be laughed out of academic circles.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...onomic-growth/

It is harmful, delusional mythology. Not a defensible position from which to structure a philosophy.

Why would any country want to limit their potential and set some kind of arbitrary boundary?

This is where you lie.

No one said anything about either "limiting potential", or that there were any "arbitrary" limits.

If you can't defend your position, just admit that you're wrong, don't waste people's time by making up additional bullshit like this.

Every behaviour I've seen from people indicates they all believe in infinite growth.

Santa Claus literally makes more sense than infinite growth, because at least Santa Claus could fit within the bounds of reality we live in.

That's how nonsensical your position is. The planet is finite, resources are finite, extrapolating that infinite growth is ever achievable based on that is either lying, or failing to grasp what "infinite" even means at a very deep level.

And no, positing that we can grow into the greater Solar System is not an argument. Nor the Milky Way. Nor even the entire universe. Even a Type IV Civilization, tapping into all the resources of the entire Universe itself, that's still finite. Infinite growth is impossible.

It's something where everybody says "growth is finite" outloud but literally no one lives their life based on that premise. They always live in a way that is perfectly appropriate to an infinite growth outlook.

This is simply false. The vast majority of people do not share this delusion. Practically no one, in fact. I don't even think you even believe it; I think you're parroting some nonsense you heard somewhere but do not in any way understand.

If you believed infinite growth were possible, you would have to believe resources were infinite, and if resources are infinite, supply is infinite, meaning demand is negligible until the human race is infinite, and thus nothing has value.

That's what a society predicated on infinites must look like. If you're not going there, you know it doesn't work, and you're just playing some weird-ass baiting game.

- - - Updated - - -

We can discover or create an infinite amount of new resources. They are not finite. The world has plenty of resources for everyone.

Again, literally impossible.

A hypothetical Type IV civilization making use of every single resource in the Universe to its fullest potential is still, by definition, a finite civilization. Infinite growth is literally impossible.

[Edge-]

We can discover or create an infinite amount of new resources. They are not finite. The world has plenty of resources for everyone.

Infinite anything doesn't exist, and if you were the logical dude you continue to claim to be you'd know this. It's pure fantasy.

[Ursus]

As long as the population is stable or growing slightly then I think there is no value in "tradwives" whatsoever. "Trad" in these cases usually just means "limit freedoms and self-determination". If the population starts shrinking though then I would say there is some flaw in non-Trad lifestyles that needs to be addressed.

We can discover or create an infinite amount of new resources. They are not finite. The world has plenty of resources for everyone.

Are you, by any chance, this guy in real life?




Because the shit you say sounds exactly like the kind of bullshit that always comes out of his mouth.

[Logwyn]

Infinite anything doesn't exist, and if you were the logical dude you continue to claim to be you'd know this. It's pure fantasy.

I am starting to think that human stupidity is infinite. You are most likely right about everything else.

[PACOX]

I don't care if someone wants to live like that. There are women who buy into it, just like any other preference, kink, lifestyle, fetish people they have. Just don't whine that it's hard to find someone who ascribes to your niche or push it onto others.

*turns of CPAC*

Like those guys.

[PC2]

Infinite anything doesn't exist, and if you were the logical dude you continue to claim to be you'd know this. It's pure fantasy.

You claim. The way I see it humanity is reaching for the infinite right now. All of the "finite growth" people don't seem to be making any headway.

[Azadina]

We can discover or create an infinite amount of new resources. They are not finite. The world has plenty of resources for everyone.

Why aren't we all billionaires living in luxury? Afterall, infinite resources to go around for everyone. Why am I typing this before my work shift instead of being able to admire bank account with head spinning numbers in it?

[Calfredd]

You claim.

Actually you claim. You are the one who started the infinite vs. finite growth but your only "evidence" for such an absurd claim is "people in the future will figure this out".