1.5K Rio 224 ilvl and cant get in +15s... Guess which class ?

[mjolnrik]

Its actually funny, a warlock with 1.7k tried to get into this groups top 17 earlier today. The tank was like no, we need a mage. 1min cooldown compared to a 3min cooldown and all that bs. I mean fair enough. We eventually got a mage who was 1.3k io, found out mid dungeon that he was arcane. Idk how arcane mages work but he certainly didnt seem to blow huge burst every minute or deal any damage to pride.
So yeaa a high io warlock was replaced with an arcane mage who barely did 4k dps the entire dungeon. Shame that warlocks are so unrepresented. We didnt even need timewarp since we had a shaman healer

[Specialka]

Its actually funny, a warlock with 1.7k tried to get into this groups top 17 earlier today. The tank was like no, we need a mage. 1min cooldown compared to a 3min cooldown and all that bs. I mean fair enough. We eventually got a mage who was 1.3k io, found out mid dungeon that he was arcane. Idk how arcane mages work but he certainly didnt seem to blow huge burst every minute or deal any damage to pride.
So yeaa a high io warlock was replaced with an arcane mage who barely did 4k dps the entire dungeon. Shame that warlocks are so unrepresented. We didnt even need timewarp since we had a shaman healer

Your issue here is the player, not the spec. Arcane mage is perfectly capable of doing tons of damages when played well.

[Gaidax]

Your issue here is the player, not the spec. Arcane mage is perfectly capable of doing tons of damages when played well.

Arcane is a spec that needs players that REALLY know wtf they are doing, then it pumps hard. Issue is that it's a one fuckup and all that house of cards they built goes down spec. So yeah, some rando playing Arcane queuing in PuGs? Set expectations low.

And frankly Fire is not really impressing me either when I pug M+. Pugs just make these "all in" burst specs much weaker.

[kamuimac]

Arcane is a spec that needs players that REALLY know wtf they are doing, then it pumps hard. Issue is that it's a one fuckup and all that house of cards they built goes down spec. So yeah, some rando playing Arcane queuing in PuGs? Set expectations low.

And frankly Fire is not really impressing me either when I pug M+. Pugs just make these "all in" burst specs much weaker.

because it cannot be impressive outside of burst on boss with how most people run m+ . its physicaly impossible with how tanks in pugs pull 1 pack at a time.

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed, thats why a skill matching system would be terrible, since the general playerbase is usually bad, the deplete ratio of keys would be higher than it is now and like you said, the complains to get rid of such system would be everywhere, would it be fair? probably, since its supposed to match you with equally skilled people, but people would hate it exactly because they think they are better than they actually are, and this system would make them go "why im paired with guys like this, im better" and we would have the forever Bronze/Silver LoL players that deserve to be challenger, but in wow.

if "general playerbase" aka majority is bad - then maybe its time to stop overtuning game to suit like 100k people.

because it costs blizzard 5-6 mln players who stopped playing.

[Shaetha]

Why would you do that... I also play off-meta melee but when I gather groups I usually prefer to take other off-meta specs because I know how annoying it is to find groups right now and it's not like you really deplete any keys with decently geared people in the 14-16 range anyway no matter the group composition.

The people complaining about the problem almost invariably will perpetuate it with a "fuck you, got mine" attitude.

The people that aren't complaining are usually the people that aren't too anti-social to make friends or join a guild.

[mjolnrik]

Your issue here is the player, not the spec. Arcane mage is perfectly capable of doing tons of damages when played well.

I have no doubt any class can perform with the right player. My point was the principle. Clearly the tank was looking for a fire mage with a combust every minute. And the leader made an assumption and invited a far lower io player who turned out to be a different spec than expected.

[kiramon]

Arcane is a spec that needs players that REALLY know wtf they are doing, then it pumps hard. Issue is that it's a one fuckup and all that house of cards they built goes down spec. So yeah, some rando playing Arcane queuing in PuGs? Set expectations low.

And frankly Fire is not really impressing me either when I pug M+. Pugs just make these "all in" burst specs much weaker.

Maybe I just know arcane better, but it’s very very easy to pull “good” damage in dungeons, way above what most other dps can do on AoE, my mage at 205 does 12k-16k aoe dmg with cooldowns, which you can stagger between AP and touch of the magi, and with bombardment you’ll rock.

Unfortunately you suck after the cool downs; less than a fire mage, but still pretty suck. I think bombardment making aoe such a joke but needing infinity for bosses is a hard trade off for arcane.

Mana is not an issue with prideful and non-tyrannical.

[Asrialol]

(Unbuffed)

A squishy demolock is a shit demolock, we are broken as shit right now for passive survivability.

I'm yet to get a demo lock to queue for any of my alts keys

[SinR]

Guess Which Class...

Enhance Shaman?

[neescher]

if "general playerbase" aka majority is bad - then maybe its time to stop overtuning game to suit like 100k people.

because it costs blizzard 5-6 mln players who stopped playing.

There IS content for the "general playerbase". Players who are "bad" as you put it, can easily play LFR, the first half of CN normal, heroic/mythic dungeons and even low m+ keys (even if they're not in time), world quests, covenant campaigns, levelling alts, PVP.

There is a ton of content for everyone, and there's ALSO some content for better players like higher m+ keys and HC/Mythic raid.

Why do you want there to be ONLY easy content and no harder content, just because some players can't complete it?


There's literally easy content and hard content, and what you're saying is "NO there shouldn't be hard content, only easy content". Just doesn't make any sense

[kamuimac]

There IS content for the "general playerbase". Players who are "bad" as you put it, can easily play LFR, the first half of CN normal, heroic/mythic dungeons and even low m+ keys (even if they're not in time), world quests, covenant campaigns, levelling alts, PVP.

There is a ton of content for everyone, and there's ALSO some content for better players like higher m+ keys and HC/Mythic raid.

Why do you want there to be ONLY easy content and no harder content, just because some players can't complete it?


There's literally easy content and hard content, and what you're saying is "NO there shouldn't be hard content, only easy content". Just doesn't make any sense

if its content utilized by only 5% of playerbase then no its not general content. its waste of resources which breeds toxicity - thats what it is.

[neescher]

if its content utilized by only 5% of playerbase then no its not general content. its waste of resources which breeds toxicity - thats what it is.

So you're sticking with "even though there's enough content for me, there's also content for others and that's BAD".

Cool.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Sounds like he's shit, demo locks have insane survivability especially if he's necrolord like he should be, run around with 45khp, then 20% of damage taken is redirected to pet. Then you have a 20% up shield that returns constantly+on damage, then you have a trinket to buff your up, them you have a 40% shield and 20% damage reduction. On command.

Eh? Demo locks "should" be Night Fae. Necro's the next best, but NF definitely does more damage. Source: am guilty Necro demo lock who can't bring himself to switch NF on yet another char.

[FelPlague]

Eh? Demo locks "should" be Night Fae. Necro's the next best, but NF definitely does more damage. Source: am guilty Necro demo lock who can't bring himself to switch NF on yet another char.

uhhhh not true.
Necrolord is the highest dps for demo lock...

Here is if you include only the soulbinds, which well as you can see niya is only a tiny bit higher.
and most guides are still out of date, before necrolord and night fae were neck in neck, but with the decimating bolt un-nerfs it pulled ahead. sadly most people play night fae cause its the best for affliction, and only a tiny bit behind for demo, so they run it anyways.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

uhhhh not true.
Necrolord is the highest dps for demo lock...

Here is if you include only the soulbinds, which well as you can see niya is only a tiny bit higher.
and most guides are still out of date, before necrolord and night fae were neck in neck, but with the decimating bolt un-nerfs it pulled ahead. sadly most people play night fae cause its the best for affliction, and only a tiny bit behind for demo, so they run it anyways.

Using the more optimised APL from the class discord, I still find that NF outperforms Necro, both using Niya and Dreamweaver. It's reasonably close, but it's decidedly better to be Night Fae. The logs also bear this out, with Night Fae demo locks substantially outperforming their Necrolord brethren.

[FelPlague]

Using the more optimised APL from the class discord, I still find that NF outperforms Necro, both using Niya and Dreamweaver. It's reasonably close, but it's decidedly better to be Night Fae. The logs also bear this out, with Night Fae demo locks substantially outperforming their Necrolord brethren.

"sadly most people play night fae cause its the best for affliction, and only a tiny bit behind for demo, so they run it anyways."

Again, there is a reason why logs show nightfae as higher, cause most people are playing nightfae so they can also play affliction.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

"sadly most people play night fae cause its the best for affliction, and only a tiny bit behind for demo, so they run it anyways."

Again, there is a reason why logs show nightfae as higher, cause most people are playing nightfae so they can also play affliction.

I notice you ignored my sims which also show that NF is better.
Also if Necro is better, then that should still be showing up on logs even with it being a minority. Not a single necrolord is in the top 100 parses on mythic *Shriekwing. I'd be happy to hear it's actually ahead, but I can't find any actual data which bears that out. The only data you've given actually shows that NF is in fact better.

[FelPlague]

I notice you ignored my sims which also show that NF is better.
Also if Necro is better, then that should still be showing up on logs even with it being a minority. Not a single necrolord is in the top 100 parses on mythic *Shriekwing. I'd be happy to hear it's actually ahead, but I can't find any actual data which bears that out. The only data you've given actually shows that NF is in fact better.

Those sims show just the soulbind, not the ability, which the ability is better.


Also AGAIN i think you fail to realize how logs work.


the best of the best players will play the best option, which for warlocks is night fae, as its best for affliction, so many of them will choose night fae, and then play demonology, still as night fae cause its not a big enough bonus to be worth changing.


Were you one of the people who thought ele was bad in BFA too?

Blizzard themselves literally laid out how it works



Something is 1% better

so all the top players choose that thing
and then when you look at logs it looks like its 10% better!!!!

Cause all the best players are playing for that 1%, and all the worse the other, which means it looks like 10% even though its 1%

necrolord is better for demo, but on logs night fae is higher because most warlocks go nightfae cause its better for both destro and aff, and only a slight bit worse for demo, so that means all the best players are on night fae, which makes it look like night fae is "FAR BETTER"

even though as you literally disprove with your sims, even in the soulbinds night fae is only a tiny bit higher, but for some reason on logs it seems to be FAAAAAR better? hmmm? and again you are only comparing the soulbind, and not the actual ability itself.

[Pper]

imagine pugging in wow
lmao

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Those sims show just the soulbind, not the ability, which the ability is better.


Also AGAIN i think you fail to realize how logs work.


the best of the best players will play the best option, which for warlocks is night fae, as its best for affliction, so many of them will choose night fae, and then play demonology, still as night fae cause its not a big enough bonus to be worth changing.


Were you one of the people who thought ele was bad in BFA too?

Blizzard themselves literally laid out how it works



Something is 1% better

so all the top players choose that thing
and then when you look at logs it looks like its 10% better!!!!

Cause all the best players are playing for that 1%, and all the worse the other, which means it looks like 10% even though its 1%

necrolord is better for demo, but on logs night fae is higher because most warlocks go nightfae cause its better for both destro and aff, and only a slight bit worse for demo, so that means all the best players are on night fae, which makes it look like night fae is "FAR BETTER"

even though as you literally disprove with your sims, even in the soulbinds night fae is only a tiny bit higher, but for some reason on logs it seems to be FAAAAAR better? hmmm? and again you are only comparing the soulbind, and not the actual ability itself.

The sims include the ability. It's part of the APL. If you switch to a NF soulbind, it'll start using the NF ability.

I'm aware that the best players will be playing the best option. Obviously that's NF for affliction, but if Necro were actually best for demo, I'd expect the demo experts to be using it and getting better numbers out of it. They are not. The best demo locks are still playing NF.

You keep saying it's better and not providing any evidence. Again, please show me the data that shows I'm better off picking Necrolord. That would make me happy.