Making flying better

[FuxieDK]

you have to understand that this isn't possible as anti-flying is inheritly an entitlement position. It is build on feeling entitled to play like they want while being competetive and not having to possess the discipline to stick to their guts.

Entitled are the players, who want to dictate how other people should play their game.

[crusadernero]

This, the bolded part, is exactly what i'm advocating for.

But yeah, Blizz likes its excuses regarding flying.
Frankly it seems like they just don't want to consider that their ground-only designed zones are far more mediocre than they'd like to admit, and that flying reveals their flaws very clearly.

It would be cool with zones that have islands in the air, or huge caves underneath the ground that we could fly down in!

[oldgeezer]

False. You'd spend less time in game, guaranteed, because flying reduces the time it takes to do everything.

That's exactly the opposite of my experience. Flying opens up, I'm encouraged to level alts and in general spend more time in the world with them and the main. Why? Because the friction of travel is lessened.

[rrayy]

It will save much more than 30 secs, content in the open world is trivial and a waste of time anyway so it hardly makes flying OP, players have a set amount of time to play, if something takes too long as is not rewarding that content will get ignored, at least with flying it gives you a choice to do the content you would normally ignore anyway.

YOu still have the choice to do content. There is zero reason to have flying as you can get anywhere in Shadowlands in no time at all. This argument needs to stop because it isn't valid.

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But yeah, Blizz likes its excuses regarding flying.
Frankly it seems like they just don't want to consider that their ground-only designed zones are far more mediocre than they'd like to admit, and that flying reveals their flaws very clearly.

Or maybe you are stating a subjective opinion and they don't think their zones are mediocre. That is you trying to present your opinion as fact.

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It is NOT a compromise, since Anti-flyers can play their game like they want ALL the time (before and after Pathfinder) where pro-flyers only can play their game like they want after Pathfinder.

I get it, Anti-flyers don't like to fly... Then stay in the ground and let pro-flyers fly.

Aagin, this ignores the problem no-flyers have. They aren't going to gimp themselves when flying is available. The only egotist is you wanting the game catered solely to you. You can go without flying for awhile. The game is easily playable without it.

[Santti]

I wish Blizzard had the balls to discontinue flying altogether, back in WoD.

[Zyky]

Flying as a concept is fine, personally I think making them the fastest mounts in the game is the issue.

I agree with this, BC/Wrath had a good thing going for flying until you earned epic flying, where the flying speed was slower than epic ground mounts. I think the solution is as simple as increasing the speed of ground mounts to 150% and then reducing flying to 200%

[Lycras]

The most boring part of wow is the travel. It actually stops me from wanting to play the game. I don't want to sit down to play the game only to have to wait 5 mins to get my character to where he needs to be and then to spend another 5 mins riding around a mountain. Travelling is not content. It is a barrier.

%100 Agree with this statement. Travelling is not a content, its a barrier... They need to fix it asap !

[Santti]

I agree with this, BC/Wrath had a good thing going for flying until you earned epic flying, where the flying speed was slower than epic ground mounts. I think the solution is as simple as increasing the speed of ground mounts to 150% and then reducing flying to 200%

You'd still use the flying mount for everything, so what would be the point, exactly?

[Nuggsy]

People really need to stop trying to get rid of flying/make it useless. Flying is fine. If you don't want to fly, don't. Some (most) people like to get their daily stuff done and not have it drag out because of terrain or distance. It's okay for "ground content" to become less of a focus over the course of an expansion. Not everything in the game has to have you super engaged at every possible moment and I don't understand the need for everything to be a pain in the ass/challenge to satisfy some hardcore need to have everything an uphill battle. As loathed as many are to admit it, WoW is primarily a PVE game with pvp thrown in as a side activity. Compare the viewing audiences for the PVP vs World First races for that. This sounds less like a "I want to fix this" and more of a "War Mode player wanting to gank more" and is angry people are avoiding world pvp/escaping.

[Santti]

People really need to stop trying to get rid of flying/make it useless. Flying is fine. If you don't want to fly, don't. Some (most) people like to get their daily stuff done and not have it drag out because of terrain or distance.

Honestly, I hate this argument. Because it's bullshit. Why?

1) You are fucked in PvP, when others fly, and you don't.

2) You are at a severe disadvantage, when it comes to mining/herbing.

3) Flying as it works now, is just shit design. Storm Peaks and the like are always cited as something to aspire for with flying, but really, flying makes the world flat as fuck. All Storm Peaks ever was, was a place that didn't connect it's areas with roads. That's it.

4) And really, if you are in such a hurry to log out and wait for your next raid, why not just have an instant teleport to our quest destinations and nodes? Or maybe just a button called "resolve", that dumps everything in your mailbox, in an instant. I sound all kinds of crazy, but honestly, if we had a "resolve" button, we'd be in the same situation. "Don't use it, if you don't like it". Because people would be using it, and wouldn't be willing to let go. Just like with flying, which is basically just a slow teleport. It's a tool to skip shit with, not a tool to engage with anything.

Instead, I'd rather have the whole game tailored for the ground, only. Have nodes give more resources. The Flightmasters Whistle was a good addition. Maybe slightly less mobs, and more convenient travel routes. Increase ground mount speed to 150%. That sort of thing.

But no, we have to have our instant gratifications these days. Nothing can feel like a journey and take time, and everything just needs to be conveniently "there".

[kenn9530]

YOu still have the choice to do content. There is zero reason to have flying as you can get anywhere in Shadowlands in no time at all. This argument needs to stop because it isn't valid.

The whole point in flying is to make it so you can get to your preferred content faster, your whole argument is invalid, why should a player who doesnt care about world quests at all and does raids/mythic plus be screwed over because you dont want flying in the game, why do you think its ok to waste a players time when flying gets you to your content faster.

Flying has been in the game since TBC its plain stupid to ask it to be either limited or removed completely, your asking for content that has been in the game for an age to be removed.

A player flying doesnt effect your gameplay any way at all, if you want to just use a ground mount then by all means, stop being so arrogant claiming flying doesnt need to be ingame, when its a part of the game.

[Santti]

The whole point in flying is to make it so you can get to your preferred content faster

How far would you be willing to take that? Instead of the slow teleport that is flying, how about a button that does it all for you? So you know, you can get to your preferred content faster?

Sure, you don't have to use it...

[Forogil]

YOu still have the choice to do content. There is zero reason to have flying as you can get anywhere in Shadowlands in no time at all.

That is patently false and - the problem is still that it takes too much time to travel to the places you want to go, so you spend too much time on flightpaths tabbed out compared to actually playing the game.

Or in other words:

This argument needs to stop because it isn't valid.

[HateTrain]

How far would you be willing to take that? Instead of the slow teleport that is flying, how about a button that does it all for you? So you know, you can get to your preferred content faster?

Oh fuck off with that disingenuous strawman argument. Wanting to be efficient does not equal everything being completed with the press of one button. If that's the case, lets install a "Win WOW" button that charges you 2 years worth of subscription, gives you BIS gear and cancels your account?

[Akta]

put the flight option behind the exploration/adventurer meta achi. Make it a bit easier without impossible spawn rates and that's it

[Helander]

Thanks for describing flight paths to us in more words.

[kenn9530]

How far would you be willing to take that? Instead of the slow teleport that is flying, how about a button that does it all for you? So you know, you can get to your preferred content faster?

Sure, you don't have to use it...

I would welcome the teleports like challenge modes, get all dungeons at mythic plus 15 and you can teleport to the instance and it resets when you clear it.

I enjoy bonuses where your at least have to do something of a reasonable challenge to earn. If only they kept doing CMs each expansion so you have a nice dungeon transmog to earn and some extra teleports.

[rrayy]

That is patently false and - the problem is still that it takes too much time to travel to the places you want to go, so you spend too much time on flightpaths tabbed out compared to actually playing the game.

Or in other words:

No it isn't false. I can get to wherever I want to go very quickly. IN fact, the way flying is going to work in Shadowlands means you will have to take a FP from zone to zone before you can even use your flying mount so you won't be saving any real time. Your argument needs to stop.

[Nuggsy]

Honestly, I hate this argument. Because it's bullshit. Why?

1) You are fucked in PvP, when others fly, and you don't.

2) You are at a severe disadvantage, when it comes to mining/herbing.

3) Flying as it works now, is just shit design. Storm Peaks and the like are always cited as something to aspire for with flying, but really, flying makes the world flat as fuck. All Storm Peaks ever was, was a place that didn't connect it's areas with roads. That's it.

4) And really, if you are in such a hurry to log out and wait for your next raid, why not just have an instant teleport to our quest destinations and nodes? Or maybe just a button called "resolve", that dumps everything in your mailbox, in an instant. I sound all kinds of crazy, but honestly, if we had a "resolve" button, we'd be in the same situation. "Don't use it, if you don't like it". Because people would be using it, and wouldn't be willing to let go. Just like with flying, which is basically just a slow teleport. It's a tool to skip shit with, not a tool to engage with anything.

Instead, I'd rather have the whole game tailored for the ground, only. Have nodes give more resources. The Flightmasters Whistle was a good addition. Maybe slightly less mobs, and more convenient travel routes. Increase ground mount speed to 150%. That sort of thing.

But no, we have to have our instant gratifications these days. Nothing can feel like a journey and take time, and everything just needs to be conveniently "there".

You hate the argument because you want people to play the game your way. This isn't classic and the mentality of "it needs to be back like it was in ye olden times" is just absurd. I have other games I like to play because unlike so many people that play this game I understand that it is literally impossible to have one game entertain me fully forever. I don't want to have to spend hours running around to get boring daily shit done which is required to stay up to date. I want to get it done then go enjoy other things with my friends or even other aspects of the game.

The argument "don't use it if you don't want it" is valid because I'm not trying to force everyone to play a more tedious version of the game by suggesting otherwise. Most people like the convenience of flying. That was proven way back in WoD when they tried to get rid of it and had to put it back in. People wanting flying gone are in the minority Blizzard should rightly cater and design the game around the majority. Not a small fraction who want everyone to spend hours toiling away at things that could be done in 45 minutes.

We explore the world in the beginning when flying isn't implemented. After months of exploring there isn't anything new to be discovered and taking round about flightpaths that refuse to go from A to B without going super far out of the way to show off the same bit of scenery we've seen for the 1000th time doesn't cut it. Some of us value our time a bit more than that but that doesn't mean we don't appreciate the design of the world.

I'm sick and tired of the mindset gamers have now-a-days where they try to force everyone to play a game their way because they believe they know how it should be done. If you want to herb and mine, fly, if you want to explore the world to satisfy your wanderlust with the same rock you've seen 1000+ times in an expansion do that. idk what else to tell you.

[rrayy]

You hate the argument because you want people to play the game your way. This isn't classic and the mentality of "it needs to be back like it was in ye olden times" is just absurd. I have other games I like to play because unlike so many people that play this game I understand that it is literally impossible to have one game entertain me fully forever. I don't want to have to spend hours running around to get boring daily shit done which is required to stay up to date. I want to get it done then go enjoy other things with my friends or even other aspects of the game.

Please. I barely takes any time to get anywhere. AN other minute isn't going to kill you. You aren't "spending hours running around to get boring saily stuff done". That is a bogus strawman.

The argument "don't use it if you don't want it" is valid because I'm not trying to force everyone to play a more tedious version of the game by suggesting otherwise. Most people like the convenience of flying. That was proven way back in WoD when they tried to get rid of it and had to put it back in. People wanting flying gone are in the minority Blizzard should rightly cater and design the game around the majority. Not a small fraction who want everyone to spend hours toiling away at things that could be done in 45 minutes.

No it isn't valid because nobody is going to gimp themselves when flying is available. And again, nobody is taking hours to do something that could be done in 45 minutes. Anyone who is doing that is doing it on prupose simply to bolster a bogus flying argument.

We explore the world in the beginning when flying isn't implemented. After months of exploring there isn't anything new to be discovered and taking round about flightpaths that refuse to go from A to B without going super far out of the way to show off the same bit of scenery we've seen for the 1000th time doesn't cut it. Some of us value our time a bit more than that but that doesn't mean we don't appreciate the design of the world.

That is why they need to add more to be discovered. And you never go "super far out of the way to go from A to B". That is bogus hyperbole.

I'm sick and tired of the mindset gamers have now-a-days where they try to force everyone to play a game their way because they believe they know how it should be done. If you want to herb and mine, fly, if you want to explore the world to satisfy your wanderlust with the same rock you've seen 1000+ times in an expansion do that. idk what else to tell you.

Then you should be sick and tired of yourself. You are guilty of the exact same mindset. You are trying to dictate that flying should be in the game because you believe you know how it should be done. That is why Pathfinder exists. NO flyers get to ahve it their way for awhile, then the flyers can fly where ever they want for the rest of it. The flyers still have not compromised as they still demand flying be given to them immediately. No flyers actually have because they accepted Pathfinder after originally getting no flying in WoD.