For all the people crying that their class/spec sucks and blizz can't balance

[OokOok]

Just wanted to point out to all the Legion/BFA babies who clearly haven't played WoW for long, but WoW is actually the most balanced it's been in a long time, sorry you play survival.

The current tier is coming to an end.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26 This is the current raid mythic - The gap between scores is 82 being the highest and 69 being the lowest. Outside of Sub/Arms/Surv which most only play for pvp anyways the classes/specs are very balanced. If we remove those 3 cry specs, the gap is 82 - 73
a 9point gap is barely anything. This is an extremely well balanced expansion so far interms of PVE raid content. No one cares about pvp.

If you think you have it bad, here's WOD's final raid HFR - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/8
The gap in this tier was - 91 being the highest and 52 being the lowest..... that's a 40 point gap, but you're right the 9 point gap you're crying about now is MUCH worse.
Right now a person playing a BM hunter or even an Arms warrior is capable of topping the charts, look up Arms warrior one of the lowest specs. The top 100 warriors are doing VERY well and competing against classes such as Warlocks/Balance and mages in their raids. 9 points is NOTHING, in HFR the best Assassination rogue in the world wouldn't be able to touch the potential of an arcane mage in HFR, 33 points isn't a small gap.

Stop crying cause your spec isn't top on a list and learn to play it. I for one am happy the game is finally in a position where I can play whatever I want and still have the potential to be top on the meters and not be a carry for my raid group. If your damage is bad, if you don't get M+ invites. It's a you problem. It's YOU

[Rendark]

Man someone is mad that some people don't like a thing.

[tomten]

You dont have a clue what you're talking about...
Yeh, sure, an arms warrior will top charts, specially competing against boomies, shadow, lock or mage...
Just because the player is garbage doesn't mean your spec is good, how can you not know this??

[arkanon]

If your damage is bad, if you don't get M+ invites. It's a you problem. It's YOU

So do the same for M+, since you mentioned it. You genuinely think certain specs are not getting invites to high level M+ because.....the player doesnt know how to play?

Sorry, but you are just coming across as quite delusional and confused about how things really work at the higher end of play.

You are so delusional you dont even think about what you are saying - those logs for the mythic raids - they are arguably the best raiders playing the game, and you have the nerve to say "you could do better, you just need to learn to play" - that is a level of arrogance and ignorance i havnt seen for a while.

Not sure why i expected any more from someone who produced absolute gems like:

Did you seriously say casters are hard to play lol? the specs who literally just stand still in mythic+ and raids and ignore all mechanics and just dps? OH You mean just pvp, the part of the game no one cares about? k continue

[Soon-TM]

<generic "git gud" speech>

You can't put the best players in the world as an example of anything. There is a reason they are a tiny percentage of the population, so telling the remaning 99% or so to "git gud" is going to result in Cataclysm 2.0 - hell, even GC had to admit that there is a pervasive myth that forcing people to do difficult content in order to advance their character results in people improving. He actually found that the opposite was true.

[Leesus]

This is a horrible misuse of data. HFC logs were extremely imbalanced because of the legendary ring, which favored burst specs very heavily. It just so happened that certain specs were also intentionally undertuned due to impending reworks (survival hunter). If you wanted accurate data on how blizzard balanced the classes in HFC, you would need to look at early logs before guilds had high item level legendary rings, as well as longer kill times, because later in the patch most guilds could kill certain bosses in under 20 seconds with the absolutely absurd burst arcane mages could do.

Furthermore, people are outraged at blizzard's balancing because not only are specs poorly balanced on single target, spec swapping is more difficult than ever due to locked covenants and legendary crafting creating huge time-constraints on flexibility, and target capping has left certain specs in the dust in AoE scenarios while other classes with strong single target (fire mage and boomkin) also have uncapped aoe dps.

[Soon-TM]

On holy priest:

"...it's not good enough. Imagine trying to bring a healer that basically only brings hps... and their healing is lower"

I can attest this. I've always preferred holy priest to disc, since I freely admit I'm not exactly stellar with the latter. Yet my purple parses with holy are barely better than my blue parses with disc. And that's only counting HPS, because when it comes to DPS, disc blows holy out of the water.

[ZazuuPriest]

*laughs in every class that has an AOE cap isn't the meta.

Honestly, i thought they couldn't top their shit decision making after the GCD shit from Bfa but once again they proved me wrong

[erifwodahs]

I can attest this. I've always preferred holy priest to disc, since I freely admit I'm not exactly stellar with the latter. Yet my purple parses with holy are barely better than my blue parses with disc. And that's only counting HPS, because when it comes to DPS, disc blows holy out of the water.

Well, because best players play disc? If best players would play holy, you would have blue parses too.
Balance is good. It's community who wants classes to be very different, but also have everything what other classes have at the same time. As long as there is a 1% difference there will always be meta.

- - - Updated - - -

But the warcraft logs scores range from 75 to 82 (with two of the worst specs, mistweaver and druid, at the top). My point is that the logs mostly lie. Looking at the summary numbers is pretty pointless. You're missing out on utility, and on cheese that makes certain classes able to handle mechanics that others can't, or burst that comes at the right time. You're also not noticing the number of parses... you really think people are bringing 3X as many shammy healers than druids if druids are better, as the hps logs claim they are?

So what is the solution? Make every class the same? Every design will have a class where it is beneficial to bring one and not another. Cleave classes, AoE classes, high tank dmg, high aoe dmg. You name it.

- - - Updated - - -

You dont have a clue what you're talking about...
Yeh, sure, an arms warrior will top charts, specially competing against boomies, shadow, lock or mage...
Just because the player is garbage doesn't mean your spec is good, how can you not know this??

The point OP made, that in normal circumstances difference is marginal in comparison to outliers which we had in the past. It's community pressure which creates the balance which has to be within 5% of each other but then you still have encounter dmg profiles and healing profiles. Want Frost mages to be as good as fire on every fight? Well, you will have a fire mage with frost skin.

[agentsi]

Just wanted to point out to all the Legion/BFA babies who clearly haven't played WoW for long, but WoW is actually the most balanced it's been in a long time, sorry you play survival.

The current tier is coming to an end.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26 This is the current raid mythic - The gap between scores is 82 being the highest and 69 being the lowest. Outside of Sub/Arms/Surv which most only play for pvp anyways the classes/specs are very balanced. If we remove those 3 cry specs, the gap is 82 - 73
a 9point gap is barely anything. This is an extremely well balanced expansion so far interms of PVE raid content. No one cares about pvp.

If you think you have it bad, here's WOD's final raid HFR - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/8
The gap in this tier was - 91 being the highest and 52 being the lowest..... that's a 40 point gap, but you're right the 9 point gap you're crying about now is MUCH worse.
Right now a person playing a BM hunter or even an Arms warrior is capable of topping the charts, look up Arms warrior one of the lowest specs. The top 100 warriors are doing VERY well and competing against classes such as Warlocks/Balance and mages in their raids. 9 points is NOTHING, in HFR the best Assassination rogue in the world wouldn't be able to touch the potential of an arcane mage in HFR, 33 points isn't a small gap.

Stop crying cause your spec isn't top on a list and learn to play it. I for one am happy the game is finally in a position where I can play whatever I want and still have the potential to be top on the meters and not be a carry for my raid group. If your damage is bad, if you don't get M+ invites. It's a you problem. It's YOU

Holy shit, you're quite "special", aren't you? lol

Look at the top 5000 keys ran in M+. Not top 100, top 5000. There are 5 classes that reign supreme over everyone else. Balance Druid, Veng DH, Outlaw Rogue, Fire Mage, Holy Paladin. If you aren't one of the socially accepted "meta" classes, you get looked over constantly. Doesn't matter how "good" you are if all they're looking at is your IO score and dungeon parses.

I play a lock, always competitive in damage, usually top dmg on bosses, but only top dmg on trash if I have CDs and the tank is pulling properly. Even then, I can get NOWHERE close to a fire mage with CDs or a Boomkin. So many other classes don't even have to worry about planning or CDs and can use them recklessly and still outperform others.

Your reality is a bit distorted, but I'm sure you feel good coming here trying to make this shit statement. Chances are, you're probably a grey-green parser based on how you've written your statement.

[Zakajz]

Its really balanced that burst specs do more damage than sustained damage specs! smh

[Loveliest]

Without getting into whether you are right or wrong, the whole premise of your post is useless. So what if it was more imbalaced, it doesnt mean that it is not so now. Ppl can cry and whine as they want if they feel their spec is bad, how balanced things were in other expansion changes nothing for them now.

[Soon-TM]

Well, because best players play disc? If best players would play holy, you would have blue parses too.
Balance is good. It's community who wants classes to be very different, but also have everything what other classes have at the same time. As long as there is a 1% difference there will always be meta.

Balance is good, too bad that it is a quite scarce commodity these days. Also lol at the ad hominem.

[froschhure]

what is this garbage about?

- - - Updated - - -

booster defending blizz? what am i reading

[clevin]

For all of you "Oh you're using top raiders, that's not representative..."

a) Learn how to use warcraft logs. You can filter as you want.

b) Here's heroic CN, 75th percentile. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...y=4&dataset=75 The very worst spec (Arcane mage) is 15 points lower than the best. Take out the bottom four (who can all play alternate DPS specs) and the gap is only 10%. That's pretty close.

c) This doesnt really change if you look at 50th Percentile https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...y=4&dataset=50

d) Or if you control for gear level (this is the 210 level) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...=50&bracket=13

So, yeah, the top and bottom are within roughly 10% no matter how you slice it and OP is right - balance is OK.

M+ is very different in that you're one of three DPS so your variance will matter more. The hard truth there is that unless you're already performing very well (say 80th percentile or above), the class differences are swamped by your suboptimal play.

[Felfurion]

Just wanted to point out to all the Legion/BFA babies who clearly haven't played WoW for long, but WoW is actually the most balanced it's been in a long time, sorry you play survival.

The current tier is coming to an end.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26 This is the current raid mythic - The gap between scores is 82 being the highest and 69 being the lowest. Outside of Sub/Arms/Surv which most only play for pvp anyways the classes/specs are very balanced. If we remove those 3 cry specs, the gap is 82 - 73
a 9point gap is barely anything. This is an extremely well balanced expansion so far interms of PVE raid content. No one cares about pvp.

If you think you have it bad, here's WOD's final raid HFR - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/8
The gap in this tier was - 91 being the highest and 52 being the lowest..... that's a 40 point gap, but you're right the 9 point gap you're crying about now is MUCH worse.
Right now a person playing a BM hunter or even an Arms warrior is capable of topping the charts, look up Arms warrior one of the lowest specs. The top 100 warriors are doing VERY well and competing against classes such as Warlocks/Balance and mages in their raids. 9 points is NOTHING, in HFR the best Assassination rogue in the world wouldn't be able to touch the potential of an arcane mage in HFR, 33 points isn't a small gap.

Stop crying cause your spec isn't top on a list and learn to play it. I for one am happy the game is finally in a position where I can play whatever I want and still have the potential to be top on the meters and not be a carry for my raid group. If your damage is bad, if you don't get M+ invites. It's a you problem. It's YOU

What a terrible post, are you forgetting the sheer amount of game-breaking bugs that are in the game currently, that makes some classes/specs head and shoulders above the rest (I'm looking at you VDH magic dmg reduction). Many weird interactions that should NOT break invis - breaking invis in M+, kyrian tanks with pelgos giving extra magic damage taken instead of reduced. The long list of nonviable specs/classes left in the dust thanks to late changes. The bad design of the maw, the huge imbalance of the covenant abilities, and don't get me started on the inter-Covenant mission table followers/troops disparity that still isn't right.

Also, how can blizz STILL not fix exiting Sanguine Depths through the portal? The trash loot system that gives you the same item slots to even same items over and over again in the vault, in the weekly quest chest, in the dungeons/raids. It's not right to have 5 of the same belts in a matter of a few weeks.

It's clear the loot system hasn't been right atleast since bfa, remember the issues with the shadow priest azerite chest was it that was proved that it absolutely wasn't on the loot table for the vendor, and blizz hotfixed it. Imagine how many more issues like it have gone unnoticed.

And ofcourse there's the old 'authentication servers are down again' issue, where again, many people at least in the EU right now, simply can't login.

[A Chozo]

Yeah, OP and clevin are right, the game is actually very balanced (given all the bullshit). People are misusing statistics to blame Blizzard instead of being mad at meta-slaves (as in, themselves).

[Ares Teh God]

Dude is right game is extremely well balanced currently compared to past iterations of WoW. Sure you have your best specs in the meta that a group of people will flock too. Doesn't matter if meta specs are only 2% better people who flock to the meta will refer to everything outside the meta as trash tier specs. The reality is you can play any spec in this game right now and do pretty much every form of content. My best friend plays a Demo Lock and does +15's and mythic raids without any issue.