did the valor honeymoon die already?

[ellieg]

I don't quite understand what your saying here. Are you saying a tank at 1100 doesn't really understand when he should get prides in his route, or that when someone mispulls, he knows everything and exactly what pack to take/skip to get back to his pridetimings?

I admit, I'm not there yet, that if someone ninjas a pack, it can mess with pridetimings and I'm not sure what to skip or do to get back to our prideplan. But I do know every pridetiming if things goes to plan, and when I dps, most tanks around 1100 knows this as well. And then you don't really need 1400 tanks, you just need decent dps that knows not to ninja (as well as staying alive, and know how to pump etc etc)

I'm saying an 1100 tank has looked up the route, maybe run it a couple times on lower keys, and is still working their way towards KSM. A 1400+ tank has done it far more times, knows all the little tips and tricks, can fix mispulls, and will be all around better. If that poster has only tanked the dungeon, he only knows what he himself does. There could be a different better route. He doesn't get to see what all the other more experienced tanks are doing to learn from them.

[Shaetha]

The leader (who hadn’t indicated anything about the route beforehand) reacted as if I had somehow murdered his firstborn and ruined his key at the same time. It was a bizarre overreaction to what is at worst a minor suboptimality (I’m not even convinced it actually was!). This is not a unique experience either.

This is a symptom of the first problem you mention for sure, but it's mostly because most people are too stupid or lazy to spend 5 minutes to save 10 later.

The entire problem is that, actually. Every PuG that has gone bad was GOGOGO the whole time. That's why I kick people that seem to be in a hurry before we're on the timer. They're a liability.

There needs to be a penalty for failing. Otherwise people will exploit it forever. The way it is now is a hell of a lot better than a depleted key.

TL;DR: the problem is people not playing the game for fun. Those people are already wasting their own time more than you ever could.

[Ange]

but here's the thing, though:

You don't need 5k valor immediately. You don't even have an item to upgrade.

I could upgrade 2 items in the first week (weapon+trinket) and I was glad I did the 5k farming as quick as possible and could take advantage of the drop on the very first weekend.

[chiddie]

The biggest problem is. You have a crazy luck on vault/q/m+/raid drops and gear up really really fast. Or u have to farm all over again valors/instances to make slow steps in upgradeing ur gear. Friend of mine reached 220ilvl overall 6-8 weeks ago. I just hited 219 this week. Where is justice?

Oh, I know the pain, I think I progressed something like 10 ilvls in two months (212 now).

Really slow.