In-game Raider.io score

[erifwodahs]

True but GS could be boiled down to an average ilvl. rio can be boiled down as well. People are usually interested in the number equating it to ability.

it can, and there is a version of it - hover over and you see that with some additional info, it would be same with blizzscore, but raider IO could just be a ranking, but not scoring page for people who are interested in that extra information and GS had none of it so it just went.

[Malania]

it can, and there is a version of it - hover over and you see that with some additional info, it would be same with blizzscore, but raider IO could just be a ranking, but not scoring page for people who are interested in that extra information and GS had none of it so it just went.

I don't use it. It's as helpful as a chocolate teapot in a world where timed m+ runs can be bought. It had the same problem as GS when sticking your highest ilvl item on would inflate your score regardless of it's use to your class or spec.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Some people will evaluate anything to death to avoid being evaluated. It is kind of its own odd type of gameplay loop. RIO boils down to this..

Does a higher score automatically mean you are absolutely a better player? No it doesn't. Someone could get insanely lucky, get a carry, or just pound keys so much that eventually one just slips though and contributes to a higher score. But are the odds in your favor a 2k player is better than a 1k player? Yeah, the odds are certainly working for you. I think it would be hard to argue 5 2k rio players in a group would get smoked by 5 1k rio players in a group running the same key. Again, it is possible but when you are pulling unknown names from a pool of people applying to your group you are always playing the odds a bit. Even a 3k player could just want to throw, make a mistake, or their 5 year old is logged in and playing their account. The point of rio is to narrow the odds of finding someone of the needed skill to complete the key level. It does a pretty good job of narrowing the field. Yeah, it can be abused too but anything in any community can and will be used and abused eventually. Trust me if your RIO sucks and the score is removed people will still find a way to judge you. Even if it means going to a key, seeing you suck total ass in the first pull or two, and then ditching the group. Even more so if it isn't their key which will be the case for 4 people in the run. Face it.. you will always be under the microscope. Its more efficient and better that sometimes you might not get into a group you want then 2/3rds of them dying when you finally get there, eat some food, start, and make 2 pulls before 2 people ditch. Then people are crying for a system that tracks ditchers. Then we are just making RIO for people that ditch or don't ditch. So here we are again. Just deal with having a score and realize it can help you get around problems even if it creates a few speed bumps in your "memememe I want" game at the moment.

[Revamp Man]

On the flip side, it'd be an easy way to make Pally tanks meta again, lmfao.

I think the kyrian leggo is going to be doing that

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My fortified score is only 800 but my tyrannical score is 1000 so invite me to the 15 fortified because tyrannical bosses are harder than fortified trash

[erifwodahs]

I don't use it. It's as helpful as a chocolate teapot in a world where timed m+ runs can be bought. It had the same problem as GS when sticking your highest ilvl item on would inflate your score regardless of it's use to your class or spec.

Well, you don't but there is a demand for that still, even if it's 10-20% of what it is now, it's still better, because ilvl fully replaced GS and blizzscore, if it only gives you "rating", won't fully cover raider.io work

[Wuusah]

I don't use it. It's as helpful as a chocolate teapot in a world where timed m+ runs can be bought. It had the same problem as GS when sticking your highest ilvl item on would inflate your score regardless of it's use to your class or spec.

"people can cheat on exams, so diplomas are useless and I hire semi-randomly based on how much I like the name of a person."

[Malania]

"people can cheat on exams, so diplomas are useless and I hire semi-randomly based on how much I like the name of a person."

Reductio ad absurdum. You've changed my mind.

[Revamp Man]

that legendary on ptr, if it is a legendary... is not going to go live like that... it would be absurdly strong for holy...

unless it is a complete redesign even if nerfed by 50% reducing the effectiveness to 30% only triggering every 20 seconds and reducing the CD by 10 seconds then as far as prot is concerned it is still powerful in terms of the interrupt

[kaminaris]

@kaminaris is completely right. What does it help me to know that someone has done 50 +15 dungeons when he maybe has only done 1 +15 in the dungeon I want to go? And I would never find that out unless I look him up on the website. And that's something players shouldn't have to do. The only argument for the r.io UI right now is that it's not very likely to come across players with such a weird behavior. It's very rare to have someone with a decent score for the key level you are going, a high amount of keys in that range run AND barely any experience in that one dungeon. For the vast majority of players, rio is good enough of a tool. But there are the odd exceptions like players who only run a handful of dungeons and others not at all, or players who run all dungeons but one. And those can either never get an invite because their score is low even though they have a ton of experience in that one dungeon they are queuing for or they get an invite for their high score even though they are less experienced than most people in queue in that dungeon.

The addon is not perfect but for the most part it's good enough. But it would definitely be an improvement if it had more dungeon specific data in the addon right in the game. What does it matter to me what key level that person did SD on when I'm going into ToP?

Now imagine that blizzard implementation will be even worse (to be honest I can't say for sure). I'd imagine they will only show score and no additional information.

[Something Wicked]

bro i don't even know who you are.

Perhaps you should have considered that before replying to my previous post then. Just a thought.

[chiddie]

I've been lurking in this thread for days, and tonight my regular group had multiple people missing, so I decided to experiment and go pug instead and see how much of a toxic cesspool it really is. I'm normally a tank, but don't really want to pug as that with these affixes.

So I started out as a ilvl 221 (showing up as 224) boomy with something like 950 r.io score in that spec. I think it won't be too hard to get into groups since treants are really good on necrotic, and people apparently don't look at the shield symbol next to my shiny tank r.io score. Got invited to one of the first four Mists +15 groups I applied to. People say hi. We quickly get a healer and then a tank. I make a joke about making really sure we have enough NF seeing as we are 3 druids, hunter, warlock. Nobody responds. Someone else asks if we're using lock portal to skip. Yep. Key starts, everything goes fine, we have 4 deaths by the end of the dungeon 3 of which are dying to standing in bad stuff. Nobody says a word about it, key is timed after all, even if it's just +1. People say gg ty and leave. I dunno man, this ain't the toxic cesspool I was promised.

Let's try again, now my r.io is 960, surely this will help. I apply to SoA, almost instantly get into a group. We eventually get a tank, people say hi. Key starts, some deaths on the first big pull, nobody says anything. We proceed to first boss where tank gets slapped and dies, combat ressed, dies again. We reset the encounter, healer says "why ?", tank responds "normal hits". We have another wipe, healer tells says "dude dont turn back to the boss", a dps chimes in with "bro you getting beamed". Tank just says "no" and pulls again, dies again. Key owner says "dont need to continue, it's already gg". Group disbands. Not a nice experience really, but I wouldn't call it toxic either.

Okay, another try. Get invited and kicked from two different SoA 15 groups with the leader saying something like "cya". Why? I dunno. Maybe they actually looked at my dps r.io. Get into a third group. People say hi, key starts, there's some communication about things like rogue shroud and soaking on third boss. We have four deaths without a comment. We time the key +2. Totally carried by the rogue who did 800 more overall dps than me and the other guy. People say things like well done and scuffed but wp.

Maybe I need to get into a more poisonous environment to find the toxicity. This just won't do. But my r.io is 1002 now! Plaguefall it is. I get into the second PF +15 group I apply for. Well, it turns out it's actually for spires. Been there, done that, I apologize for not wanting to do spires and leave.

Get invited to the next PF +15 group I apply to. People say hi. Key starts. Someone pulls an extra plagueroc in the very first pull and tank asks who did it and then requests that we die or the route is fucked. Finally a bad word! But is it toxic? Doubtful. We reset the plagueroc and continue on, first boss is the smoothest kill I've ever had. Tank specifically requests "dont pull bird" as we get to the second plagueroc. Well, nobody does. Everything is fine until after the third boss when the healer dc's after jumping down the hole. Tank suggest clearing trash slowly without the healer. We do, with me and the elemental shaman offhealing when needed. Healer comes back, we spawn pride, then go kill the boss. Two people die to plague crash, one of them being me, so I apologize. Nobody comments on it, key was timed. People say gg ty and leave. My r.io has now improved to 1073.

Obviously a very small sample size, but I'm starting to doubt the claims of rampant toxicity in the pugging world.
Also just for fun: the r.io scores of the people in my three completed runs:

Mists 15: Tank 563, Healer 1092, Hunter 1581, Warlock 1316, Me 950
Spires 15: Tank 1187, Healer 1436, DH 1088, Rogue 2056, Me 960
Plaguefall 15: Tank 924, Healer 1298, Monk 1174, Shaman 1310, Me 1002

TL;DR: Pugging +15s doesn't seem very toxic to me, even with some mistakes, wipes and complete failure involved.

Cannot share my experience for this week because I gave up on doing M+ after being constantly declined for 4 evenings straight from the ultra few 14-15 present in LFG. Maybe it depends on battlegroup or region.

[Tiwack]

As soon as you get rid of the timer, people will just cc everything and pull mobs one by one. And specs without any kind of cc won't be picked.

Maybe it's time they finally balanced their game by doing something about that.

[Barzotti]

Cannot share my experience for this week because I gave up on doing M+ after being constantly declined for 4 evenings straight from the ultra few 14-15 present in LFG. Maybe it depends on battlegroup or region.

That's weird, because my alts (disc priest and mistweaver monks, not the most popular healers) don't have issues getting into +14 Mists for my weekly key even with an only okayish score on my main (1300). And they both have a 400 r.io score. You play the most desired healer so I don't understand why you're struggling so much to find groups. My main (a rsham too) didn't have issues getting invited to +14s/+15s before getting KSM (I pugged 4 of the 8 dungeons for KSM even though r.io shows that I only did those dungeons twice on +10 and +12 before the +15). I even got into a +16 DoS pug with exactly one DoS M+ timed prior to the +16 run. EU horde, english servers.

On the other hand, my 218 DH dps gets constantly declined for +14s even with a decent score.

[chiddie]

That's weird, because my alts (disc priest and mistweaver monks, not the most popular healers) don't have issues getting into +14 Mists for my weekly key even with an only okayish score on my main (1300). And they both have a 400 r.io score. You play the most desired healer so I don't understand why you're struggling so much to find groups. My main (a rsham too) didn't have issues getting invited to +14s/+15s before getting KSM (I pugged 4 of the 8 dungeons for KSM even though r.io shows that I only did those dungeons twice on +10 and +12 before the +15). I even got into a +16 DoS pug with exactly one DoS M+ timed prior to the +16 run. EU horde, english servers.

On the other hand, my 218 DH dps gets constantly declined for +14s even with a decent score.

Not that worried, this week we’ll probably be back to normal due to more forgiving affixes, I hope I’ll be able to time my first 15s.

There were near to zero 14-15 groups in general and even less with a tank already in.

[Wuusah]

Not that worried, this week we’ll probably be back to normal due to more forgiving affixes, I hope I’ll be able to time my first 15s.

There were near to zero 14-15 groups in general and even less with a tank already in.

I did a quick +14 yesterday with my rshaman alt because I didn't really play at all that week and we sped through PF and timed it +2. You are right that there weren't many groups but it wasn't impossible to find one.

Funny thing was, the tank was playing really well but the route was kinda weird and had a butt pull with an extra tentacle from the left pulled in the short gauntlet. He then skipped one trash pack on the platforms at 2nd boss and we were lucky to have boss not jump on that one. Then towards the end we killed 3rd boss, and tank jumped down when we were at 83%. Killed all the trash, boss spawns and we are at 98.6%. We run back, he pulls one slime. A dps and I tell him that we need two of them for 100%. And then tank reacts super toxic like "stfu. You want me to leave?"
I was so perplexed. Such a super smooth fast run and tank reacts like that because we told him that we need a 2nd slime after he pulled the first one and started kiting it to boss... Some people really can't deal with even the slightest form of criticism, if you can even call that "criticism"...

Timed it +2 easy.
@chiddie I looked up your profile again and your legendary is kinda weird. We really don't need more aoe healing as resto shaman and we don't need less mana costs as well. I could aoe heal the whole group during that rain at final boss with nobody being able to dispel diseases in the group. Just use your cooldowns for it. Something I like using these days is the Earthquake Elemental leggo. It helps a lot with killing tough trash packs quickly while also helping the tank to not get crushed. I did like 2.8k dps on 3rd boss in PF with it yesterday and 1.3k overall. For a spec that struggles with dps in general and me not being very experienced as rsham, that's pretty good.
I just wish the elemental had a pet bar. I had situations where it got killed by trash groups in fortified weeks and I didn't realize how much damage it took because I have no hp bar for it. Maybe I should put it on focus

[erifwodahs]

Not that worried, this week we’ll probably be back to normal due to more forgiving affixes, I hope I’ll be able to time my first 15s.

There were near to zero 14-15 groups in general and even less with a tank already in.

there certainly were plenty in EU around 17-22h over the last week. If you are looking for a group with tank in it, it won't be good any week. People should really start playing tanks to help this tank draught.

[Barzotti]

Not that worried, this week we’ll probably be back to normal due to more forgiving affixes, I hope I’ll be able to time my first 15s.

There were near to zero 14-15 groups in general and even less with a tank already in.

There was a shortage of tanks, but not a shortage of keys at all unless you are looking for groups at odd hours.

[chiddie]

there certainly were plenty in EU around 17-22h over the last week. If you are looking for a group with tank in it, it won't be good any week. People should really start playing tanks to help this tank draught.

I usually search for groups with tanks only because I don’t have much spare time and the dungeon can start faster. But last week active groups for 14-15 even without tanks were really rare anyways.

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I did a quick +14 yesterday with my rshaman alt because I didn't really play at all that week and we sped through PF and timed it +2. You are right that there weren't many groups but it wasn't impossible to find one.

Funny thing was, the tank was playing really well but the route was kinda weird and had a butt pull with an extra tentacle from the left pulled in the short gauntlet. He then skipped one trash pack on the platforms at 2nd boss and we were lucky to have boss not jump on that one. Then towards the end we killed 3rd boss, and tank jumped down when we were at 83%. Killed all the trash, boss spawns and we are at 98.6%. We run back, he pulls one slime. A dps and I tell him that we need two of them for 100%. And then tank reacts super toxic like "stfu. You want me to leave?"
I was so perplexed. Such a super smooth fast run and tank reacts like that because we told him that we need a 2nd slime after he pulled the first one and started kiting it to boss... Some people really can't deal with even the slightest form of criticism, if you can even call that "criticism"...

Timed it +2 easy.
@chiddie I looked up your profile again and your legendary is kinda weird. We really don't need more aoe healing as resto shaman and we don't need less mana costs as well. I could aoe heal the whole group during that rain at final boss with nobody being able to dispel diseases in the group. Just use your cooldowns for it. Something I like using these days is the Earthquake Elemental leggo. It helps a lot with killing tough trash packs quickly while also helping the tank to not get crushed. I did like 2.8k dps on 3rd boss in PF with it yesterday and 1.3k overall. For a spec that struggles with dps in general and me not being very experienced as rsham, that's pretty good.
I just wish the elemental had a pet bar. I had situations where it got killed by trash groups in fortified weeks and I didn't realize how much damage it took because I have no hp bar for it. Maybe I should put it on focus

Legendary is quite one of the standard ones for resto shamans.

But apart from that I think that I came to the point where I have to push my keys or nothing, this evening also I’ve been perma declined for every 15 I applied. I will do a 14 tomorrow just to grab a key and then I will try to do a 15 with the key. It sucks but I don’t think I have alternatives apart from boosts.

[kamuimac]

I usually search for groups with tanks only because I don’t have much spare time and the dungeon can start faster. But last week active groups for 14-15 even without tanks were really rare anyways.

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Legendary is quite one of the standard ones for resto shamans.

But apart from that I think that I came to the point where I have to push my keys or nothing, this evening also I’ve been perma declined for every 15 I applied. I will do a 14 tomorrow just to grab a key and then I will try to do a 15 with the key. It sucks but I don’t think I have alternatives apart from boosts.

everyone who is not 1800 toxic io is almost instant declined from +15 with expetion of boomkins and mages :0 my only +/- 1200 toxic io toon that has no problem to get into +15/16 seems to be mage - hunter/Dh with 1200 ? no chance - spent like 1,5 hour trying to get to any +15 group on tuesday on my DH - should have give up after 5 minutes - never will repeat that.

people just want to be carried - thats the sad turth

[erifwodahs]

people just want to be carried - thats the sad turth

Lol, so if I have 3 1.8k dps queuing for my dungeon I should decline them? Why would I choose that? My interest is not to "push" the key, my interest at that level is to blast it in 20mins. And if some people still needs it for KSM, why would they decline a 1.8k ?