Would you want an united Troll Empire in return for the united Seven Human Kingdoms?

[Ardenaso]

And the void elves are void-addled blood elves and not proper high elves. So we both got imperfect versions of what we wanted. Alliance "wanted" proper high elves and Horde "wanted" proper humans, neither got what they wanted.

Also, I don't like various criminal syndicates uniting into one powerful nation, it makes no sense. Alterac should belong to the Forsaken because they need both a new capital city and it is centrally located in what was once almost entirelly their lands and could now work for tensions with the Alliance's Stromic and Gilnean allies.

I concede that the Syndicate could work as a Horde faction, probably allied with/through the Forsaken, but not as a playable faction.

not Syndicate, I'd want the Ravenholdt and the Blackthorn Bandits who worked with Sylvanas and the Forsaken

[Dellis0991]

A united troll empire would be amazing but they couldn't stand alone against cosmic worldbreaking threats....I don't know why you would think that. But yeah it would be nice.

[Shadowtwili]

not Syndicate, I'd want the Ravenholdt and the Blackthorn Bandits who worked with Sylvanas and the Forsaken

And Sylvanas and her Forsaken betrayed, or mindcontrolled, every faction they worked with. Why would they return to working with the Forsaken and thus the Horde?

I guess Stromgarde is back in BFA, there's dalaran too, Gilneas is sort of a 'human' kingdom.

Kingdom of Dalaran is, sadly, neutral.
Kingdom of Alterac is still ruined.
Kingdom of Stormwind is Alliance capital.
Kingdom of Gilneas is, technically, Alliance but its territory is abandoned.
Kingdom of Kul Tiras recently rejoined the Alliance.
Kingdom of Stromgarde has only recently been recaptured, rebuilt and regained a King.

Sadly still much work to do, but not as much as a troll empire in the New Horde. The Horde only has the Darkspear, Raventusk, Zandalari tribes and whatever remains of the Shatterspear.

[Ardenaso]

And Sylvanas and her Forsaken betrayed, or mindcontrolled, every faction they worked with. Why would they return to working with the Forsaken and thus the Horde?.

I could see it as an alliance of convenience which later evolved to a mutualism and like some Forsaken members even rejoin them. The Argent Dawn/Crusade has no problem with the Forsaken so why not.

[sam86]

how?
the seven kingdoms are literally built on the only successful genocide in Azeroth history against Trolls, u can have either troll empire or human kingdoms, not both
and ironic what i'd pick i'm not sure, wc2 and wc3 humans were actually really interesting, 5 human nations who were very distinctive and different in behavior and culture, and actually had 7 leaders not king chin then mary sue anime boy to lead them
yeah i'm horde to death fan, but i admit if blizz return to how interesting even amazing humans were i want 7 human nations over troll empire which had weak personality, just savages with some intelligence, Troll empire is nowhere as interesting as wc2/3 humans at all

That said, if you want to play humans on the Horde, the Forsaken are there, waiting for you (also, as of Battle for Azeroth, Forsaken refugees have taken up residence in the ruins of the Kingdom of Alterac, so it is already Horde)

no it isn't -.- gameplay != lore, official lore is clear, alliance dominate both continents, alliance won every single war, alliance are only superpower on azeroth, they didn't do that gameplay because it need work and update for almost no gameplay reward
Remember Garrosh is dead and not even in Azeroth since it seems u follow gameplay as ur lore reference -.-

[Oneirophobia]

I kinda figured that was why you could pick Farraki (sand troll) skin as well as a handful of others, the scattered and defunct troll populations would eventually end up in the Horde for their own safety and survival. As it stands, any troll population that hasn't been driven to extinction is about as strong as a band of gnolls. Probably wise to stop resisting the domineering Horde and join up.

[VinceVega]

I guess Stromgarde is back in BFA, there's dalaran too, Gilneas is sort of a 'human' kingdom.

I don't think you can count dalaran. They are not really concerned with the whole alliance/horde thing apart from the jaina debacle back then.

Gilneas is dead. They all left and what is still there was in big parts destroyed with Telldrassil. The few survivors they have are all in stormwind and probably integrated mostly allready.

Stromgarde is a weird one. Becuase it wasn't there at all despite us being able to visite the zone. Then BOOM back again. But yeah they are allready part of the alliance though.

Which leaves us with alterac... or the syndicate. Maybe the get a grip and start acting like a kingdom once more someday

[ScipioMoroder]

I would like to see them joined and playable, but due to gameplay reasons keep areas like Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman hostile, maybe held by rebels. What I would dislike is introducing them just as a skin option, like they seem to have done with the Dark and Sand Trolls, without any mention on lore ... They have a ton potential customisation options for each sub-race.

I disagree with the notion, that having the Human Nation reunited/recreated is a good balance. Bringing in more Dwarfen Clans(Earthen, Frost, Iron and maybe even Skardyn) seems a better fit, given the customisation.

Yet, the risk of uniting and pacifying such a large part of Azeroth is that the creators run out of space and characters to tell wild tales. Any faction not bound by Horde or Alliance has more potential to develop.

Would love updated Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman as Horde cities.

[Shadowtwili]

according to wowpedia, gilneas has been restored actually, which makes sense since its no longer contested, its far within the areas that are secured by the Alliance. I wish blizzard made these things more clear ingame rather than announcing them at Blizzcon.

According to Exploring Azeroth: Eastern Kingdom, Gilneas stands, but it doesn't go into if it is either inhabited or reclaimed by the Grand Alliance.

I do agree that Gilneas (technically) should atleast be Grand Alliance territory, they have Southshore, Fenris Keep and Shadowfang Keep, which all "surround" the Kingdom of Gilneas.

I could see it as an alliance of convenience which later evolved to a mutualism and like some Forsaken members even rejoin them. The Argent Dawn/Crusade has no problem with the Forsaken so why not.

The Argent Crusade has no problem with undead, they are wary, however, of Forsaken. Leonid Bartholomew the Revered is not "Forsaken", he is a free undeath.

no it isn't -.- gameplay != lore, official lore is clear, alliance dominate both continents, alliance won every single war, alliance are only superpower on azeroth, they didn't do that gameplay because it need work and update for almost no gameplay reward
Remember Garrosh is dead and not even in Azeroth since it seems u follow gameplay as ur lore reference -.-

Alliance doesn't "dominate" both continents, in Kalimdor the Alliance's power is broken, the night elves are a genocided shadow of their former power, the draenei are too few to matter and couldn't even assist during the War of Thorns and Theramore is still a ruin.

Yes, the Alliance dominates in the Eastern Kingdom, but the blood elves and Forsaken are still able to project their power abroad and have multiple towns and villages.

Also, I follow lore, not gameplay.

I don't think you can count dalaran. They are not really concerned with the whole alliance/horde thing apart from the jaina debacle back then.

Which is a shame because I think they technically didn't leave the Alliance after Khadgar's coup either. Also, the sole Alliance "victory" from MoP.

Gilneas is dead. They all left and what is still there was in big parts destroyed with Telldrassil. The few survivors they have are all in stormwind and probably integrated mostly allready.

No Gilneans died during the Genocide at Teldrassil, they were all evacuated to Stormwind City, where they live with the humans (and night elf refugees).

Source: Elegy.

Stromgarde is a weird one. Becuase it wasn't there at all despite us being able to visite the zone. Then BOOM back again. But yeah they are allready part of the alliance though.

Stromgarde was ruined, but until BfA 1/3th of the capital was under Alliance control and the League of Arathor was an Alliance organisation/ally.

Aka, since WoW the Kingdom of Stromgarde has always been a Alliance nation under siege (from trolls, ogres, Forsaken).

Which leaves us with alterac... or the syndicate. Maybe the get a grip and start acting like a kingdom once more someday

I would find a reunited Kingdom of Alterac acceptable under Lord Aliden Perenolde. Wether they'd be alive of a new Forsaken nation will be meh.

Would love updated Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman as Horde cities.

I'd love that, Zul'Gurub, Zul'Aman, Zul'farrak, Jintha'Alor for the Horde please.

[sam86]

Yes, the Alliance dominates in the Eastern Kingdom, but the blood elves and Forsaken are still able to project their power abroad and have multiple towns and villages.

which zone exactly? horde ex-zones like Arathi Highlands and Hillsbrad are now contested, the most iconic horde zone Barrens is now contested, horde gain zero new land while alliance took many, Stonetalon mountains is back to neutral, Ashenvale is alliance, Feralas is alliance, Desolace is unknown (was horde with how they get the centaur in that zone in end, i'd say still horde for once), and so on
Horde don't hold any new zone from cata map, they just lost many zones
So again, what lore u talking about?

[Hardwing]

Would love updated Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman as Horde cities.

They are for sure iconic, but not build to be viable cities ... I mean Zul'Aman would be just as deserted as Silvermoon and other small cities.

I tend more for neutral/lightly hostile cities in form of an updated dungeon. We could go through it for the Zandalari, trying to recruit allies, uncover spies, buy artifacts ... this would spare resources and still make them relevant.

which zone exactly? horde ex-zones like Arathi Highlands and Hillsbrad are now contested, the most iconic horde zone Barrens is now contested, horde gain zero new land while alliance took many, Stonetalon mountains is back to neutral, Ashenvale is alliance, Feralas is alliance, Desolace is unknown (was horde with how they get the centaur in that zone in end, i'd say still horde for once), and so on
Horde don't hold any new zone from cata map, they just lost many zones
So again, what lore u talking about?

Problem is, we see all this on the mission tables and in blue posts. We never see the triumphs and defeats in game. Reading about it is different from seeing the flag of your faction all over the zone or refugees from there in your capital.

[Shadowtwili]

which zone exactly? horde ex-zones like Arathi Highlands and Hillsbrad are now contested, the most iconic horde zone Barrens is now contested, horde gain zero new land while alliance took many, Stonetalon mountains is back to neutral, Ashenvale is alliance, Feralas is alliance, Desolace is unknown (was horde with how they get the centaur in that zone in end, i'd say still horde for once), and so on
Horde don't hold any new zone from cata map, they just lost many zones
So again, what lore u talking about?

I give that the Alliance has fully claimed the Arathi Highlands, but Hillsbrad is hardly "contested" territory, the Alliance has a handful of paladins working on cleansing Southshore but thats about it, it's technically Alliance yes, but just about as useful as Lordaeron's capital city (ie not at all).

How is the Barrens contested? The Alliance has no presence in the Barrens except for Northwatch Hold, which they've had since vanilla? And if you mean that one, that means the Barrens has always been contested. (in a BfA Mission table Fort Triumph and Bael Modan get wrecked by the Horde iirc)

Stonetalon has always been neutral? Neither Alliance nor Horde was able to gain a decisive advantage after The Bomb was dropped on a neutral druid enclave.

We do not know the state of Ashenvale, so don't start and make things up. The Alliance won in Darkshore, not in Ashenvale.

Feralas is Alliance? Since when? The tauren and Stonemaul ogre do not have their village and fort there anymore? (literally ingame).

Desolace is basicly unknown too, at this point, yes the latest lore we had about it (from Chronicles) had Desolace as Horde territory because of their alliance with the Centaur clans, but still.

We know the Forsaken gained the Kingdom of Alterac (BfA mission table) and the night elves probably gained mount Hyjal (from the latest wow book), tho.

Opposite that, the Alliance gained Fenris and Shadowfang Keeps in Silverpine Forest, but the Horde still hold the High Command, the Rear Guard, the Sepulcher, all their outposts and villages and cities in their other territories (+Andorhal since Cata), the Forsaken only lost Lordaeron City and Brill.

So no, the Horde might've gained some lands in this war too (probably Alterac, MAYBE Ashenvale or parts off) at best and at worst the status quo has mostly returned.

[starstationprofm]

And the void elves are void-addled blood elves and not proper high elves.

Blood Elves, High Elves and Void Elves are pretty much all the same species.

[Shadowtwili]

Blood Elves, High Elves and Void Elves are pretty much all the same species.

Yes, but it was in response to wanting Horde humans, while for all intents and purposes, the Forsaken are already Horde humans.

Same way that for all intents and purposes, the void elves now fill the role of high elves in the Alliance.

[Ardenaso]

Yes, but it was in response to wanting Horde humans, while for all intents and purposes, the Forsaken are already Horde humans.

Same way that for all intents and purposes, the void elves now fill the role of high elves in the Alliance.

eh, Alliance got blood elf skeleton, and then concept and skin; the Horde should get living humans in return

[Shadowtwili]

eh, Alliance got blood elf skeleton, and then concept and skin; the Horde should get living humans in return

Alright, I know where you are coming from, but the Horde got the night elf skeleton too.

If the Horde gets the human skeleton, the Alliance should get the orc (Lightbound orc!) or Forsaken (skinny human) skeleton as compensation.

[Ardenaso]

Alright, I know where you are coming from, but the Horde got the night elf skeleton too.

eh, Nightborne is way different to Night Elves; they can't even be Highborne

[Shadowtwili]

eh, Nightborne is way different to Night Elves; they can't even be Highborne

Tbf, the nightborne are more Highborne then the Shen'dralar night elves (which, technically aren't even playable!). Unless that is what you meant to say, then I concur...

Speaking of nightborne, wish they got more customisation options from the night elves, I mean the night elf tattoo's where used before the WotA too!

[Sunderella]

That could be one of these "non cosmic threats" many people seem to long for, myself included.

However, I would not do it as another faction war that neither side will win. I would just unite whatever trolls are not in the Horde right now and let them attack both Horde and Alliance. Then let each faction fend for themselves until the end of the conflict.

[Ardenaso]

Tbf, the nightborne are more Highborne then the Shen'dralar night elves (which, technically aren't even playable!). Unless that is what you meant to say, then I concur...

actually, if the Nightborne doesn't have any reason to look like the Alliance Highborne concept then all the more for Alteraci living Humans must be pushed to the Horde

blood elf skeleton for night elf skin
blood elf skeleton and skin and concept for Alteraci Human (maybe different skeleton)