Why is end game tailored so much against the casual player?

[Crimson Spears]

I don't remember what the restrictions are but I've definitely heard stories of people getting piece of loot via personal loot and were told to trade it to someone else or they'll get kicked from the group. I haven't personally come across that but with how a lot of guilds treat trials like utter garbage, I can believe it.

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Trials are new people to the guild. Before personal loot, you would raid with the guild but you weren't given ANY loot because you're there to "prove yourself". I haven't done any raiding in a while where I was part of a team taking in trials but as I mentioned in my last comment, I've heard stories of people being told to trade away loot they got in personal loot because they were a trial. I can't confirm that though because I haven't personally seen it.

Never seen it and ive... lets see achievements started in wrath right? Tier 9?

19 CE achievements atm? Give or take I missed some of mop and legion due to RL. I've been in a half dozen guilds and pugged a tier in a secret mythic raider community that uses vetted people for pugs.

My advice is simply this. Gaze within look at others and see yourself. Birds of a feather will flock together it isn't hard to find what you want but you do have to search for it.

[TheRevenantHero]

Never seen it and ive... lets see achievements started in wrath right? Tier 9?

19 CE achievements atm? Give or take I missed some of mop and legion due to RL. I've been in a half dozen guilds and pugged a tier in a secret mythic raider community that uses vetted people for pugs.

My advice is simply this. Gaze within look at others and see yourself. Birds of a feather will flock together it isn't hard to find what you want but you do have to search for it.

Based on other comments you've made, I have absolutely no reason to believe you at all. You have been blatantly dishonest. The fact that you are saying it's so easy to just walk into a guild and raid by just "showing them logs" proves you're a liar. That doesn't happen. Ever. It's the same kind of ridiculous comment the older generation makes when they say you can just walk into a business and ask for a job and get hired. Absolutely NOBODY just waltzes into a new guild and immediately gets to raid. It just doesn't happen.

[Crimson Spears]

Based on other comments you've made, I have absolutely no reason to believe you at all. You have been blatantly dishonest. The fact that you are saying it's so easy to just walk into a guild and raid by just "showing them logs" proves you're a liar. That doesn't happen. Ever. It's the same kind of ridiculous comment the older generation makes when they say you can just walk into a business and ask for a job and get hired. Absolutely NOBODY just waltzes into a new guild and immediately gets to raid. It just doesn't happen.

I've never not had it happen. Raided from world top 10 ten man in mop (for my highest) to world thousand something gets ce before patch like in bfa and now. It is that simple.

[TheRevenantHero]

I've never not had it happen. Raided from world top 10 ten man in mop (for my highest) to world thousand something gets ce before patch like in bfa and now. It is that simple.

As I've said with another post you put out there, you're a liar. Everything about what you've said is inaccurate and dishonest. You should really stop with the misinformation.

[rhorle]

Based on other comments you've made, I have absolutely no reason to believe you at all. You have been blatantly dishonest. The fact that you are saying it's so easy to just walk into a guild and raid by just "showing them logs" proves you're a liar. That doesn't happen. Ever. It's the same kind of ridiculous comment the older generation makes when they say you can just walk into a business and ask for a job and get hired. Absolutely NOBODY just waltzes into a new guild and immediately gets to raid. It just doesn't happen.

An old raiding guild I was in essentially worked like that. They were short members for regular raids and I was invited because a guild member knew me and the pug status was essentially turned into a guild invite and permanent roster spot. There were also no loot restrictions either from what I could tell. Performance, or reputation, can still get you invites.

Never ever happening is a pretty strong thing to say when it has happened in the past. It is likely less of a thing with personal loot since there is no epgp or whatever system to decide who gets what loot. Heck during Cataclysm I got my staff because the first choice stopped showing up and I was the only other one ready to get fragments. I wouldn't have been the second choice and I was new to the guild for Firelands.

[Crimson Spears]

As I've said with another post you put out there, you're a liar. Everything about what you've said is inaccurate and dishonest. You should really stop with the misinformation.

Believe what you want. You are your own worst enemy when it comes to getting what you want.

[Belloc]

Depends on what you mean as far as rewards. I don't like character power as a "reward" at all. Titles, cosmetics, etc. Those are rewards. See: mage tower challenge. Character power isn't a reward, it's an unfair advantage. Leave it out of raids and use stat templates or something. I'm here (was here?) for the competition *only*.

When you win a tennis tournament, you aren't gifted with some super special tennis racket that increases your serve speed by 50mph. Lebron isn't running around with spring-loaded basketball shoes that increase his jump height 2x that of other players.

I'd like all rewards to be cosmetics or titles or something. Yes yes, I know wow's players are a bunch of crack addicts who wouldn't play the game just to get epeen cred (as opposed to other games' player-base like LoL where there is no advancement once you hit max level beyond epeen stroking points of ranks, character mastery, etc) but that's how I want it to be. Raiding is a sport and a challenge to be conquered, not a means to get shinies.


Disagree (solely based on what I assume your definition of reward is).

I agree with you far more than you know... but this is an MMO and loot is a required element. You replace loot upgrades with stat templates and the game dies a very quick death.

[Tadkins]

Can't say ive had the same experience. I've waltz into a guild I picked at random flashed them my logs got invited and raided the same night. I have no idea what a trial is but its not really needed if you perform. Something tells me those "elitist's" are simply people with standards.

It is all well and good when you have awesome logs or something similarly cool to show off, but not everyone's going to. What is a player like me who isn't the best supposed to do to get into a raiding guild? Not even a mythic one, but a normal/heroic one.

[Crimson Spears]

It is all well and good when you have awesome logs or something similarly cool to show off, but not everyone's going to. What is a player like me who isn't the best supposed to do to get into a raiding guild? Not even a mythic one, but a normal/heroic one.

Go join one?

I mean they recruit off of trade chat. I wouldn't bother to join a guild for normal or heroic I would simply lead a pug but the bar they have cant be that high. Just take logs in lfr to show you know your class.

[TheRevenantHero]

Believe what you want. You are your own worst enemy when it comes to getting what you want.

Thank you for proving me right.

[Tadkins]

Go join one?

I mean they recruit off of trade chat. I wouldn't bother to join a guild for normal or heroic I would simply lead a pug but the bar they have cant be that high. Just take logs in lfr to show you know your class.

My logs would just show that I'm a struggling player. I've never gotten past greens, maybe a couple of blues on that site. Could never really even figure out why, I don't know how to analyze logs. It took a lot just to figure out how to create them.

No guild is going to accept me with that.

[TheRevenantHero]

It is all well and good when you have awesome logs or something similarly cool to show off, but not everyone's going to. What is a player like me who isn't the best supposed to do to get into a raiding guild? Not even a mythic one, but a normal/heroic one.

Ignore him. He is not here to be helpful. Your best bet is to honestly find a new game. WoW is nowhere near as accepting of newer players than something like FF14 is. If you really want to experience the raid, do LFR. But otherwise, the playerbase is far too toxic and you're more likely to get frustrated than get results.

[Crimson Spears]

My logs would just show that I'm a struggling player. I've never gotten past greens, maybe a couple of blues on that site. Could never really even figure out why, I don't know how to analyze logs. It took a lot just to figure out how to create them.

No guild is going to accept me with that.

Then learn how to play the game? I mean nearly every single living creature and a few plants are able to learn. Yes if you just throw up your hands and instantly commit to never improving or even attempting to understand what you did wrong you wouldn't get better but must the bar be really lowered to the point where that isn't only tolerated but somehow succeeds?

[Tadkins]

Then learn how to play the game? I mean nearly every single living creature and a few plants are able to learn. Yes if you just throw up your hands and instantly commit to never improving or even attempting to understand what you did wrong you wouldn't get better but must the bar be really lowered to the point where that isn't only tolerated but somehow succeeds?

Never said I don't want to improve, but it is tough, and it feels like nothing I do seems to work at increasing my DPS by a marginal degree. I also have to rely on folks in my class discord to read a log for me and if I can't get them to do that (the mage discord in particular just seems really aloof about that sort of thing, maybe other classes have better communities) then I'm SOL.

[Crimson Spears]

Never said I don't want to improve, but it is tough, and it feels like nothing I do seems to work at increasing my DPS by a marginal degree. I also have to rely on folks in my class discord to read a log for me and if I can't get them to do that (the mage discord in particular just seems really aloof about that sort of thing, maybe other classes have better communities) then I'm SOL.

Just go learn how to play... ive rolled a mage as a hobby project it has about two-three weeks played progression wise and ive managed this.

https://raider.io/characters/us/malganis/Primalmatter

Use addons like Hekili
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/hekili

That will give you the basic rotation.. I just can't really understand how you get so hung up. I can learn a new class at heroic to mythic raid level in roughly a week or two at most.

[Tadkins]

That will give you the basic rotation.. I just can't really understand how you get so hung up. I can learn a new class at heroic to mythic raid level in roughly a week or two at most.

Because not everyone is that skilled or smart? I've been playing mage since Legion and have never been able to become that spectacular. Promise you that it's not out of lack of trying though, I've logged many hours just at the training dummy with this guy.

Just want folks to understand that not everything is easy for everyone and we just want to be able to have a game too.

[Crimson Spears]

Because not everyone is that skilled or smart? I've been playing mage since Legion and have never been able to become that spectacular. Promise you that it's not out of lack of trying though, I've logged many hours just at the training dummy with this guy.

Just want folks to understand that not everything is easy for everyone and we just want to be able to have a game too.

You do. You have the grand majority of the game. You are king of 99% of it all reserved just for you... but its never enough is it? It isn't enough to have all that content focused on you. That last little drop left for players like me...that one single mode that maybe just maybe might get a single unique boss or an extra phase is just to much content to deny you isn't it?

Do you know how tiresome it is to hear about someone constantly whining the game isnt designed for them when 99% of it is but they are so moronically fixated on perceived power they don't care in the slightest.

If wow became how you wanted it to be you would quit the next day out of being bored. Envy is the only thing that drives you.

[Tadkins]

You do. You have the grand majority of the game. You are king of 99% of it all reserved just for you...

Except, not really, when in SL everything is either high key M+ focused, raiding focused, and rated PvP focused. People like me don't even get a great vault option. The contempt dripping down from the devs for players like me is palapable in SL.

[Crimson Spears]

Except, not really, when in SL everything is either high key M+ focused, raiding focused, and rated PvP focused. People like me don't even get a great vault option. The contempt dripping down from the devs for players like me is palapable in SL.

Good. You haven't shown me a reason why it shouldn't be. I force fed you a mod to teach you your rotation and you can google your stat builds. You have all the tools but you refuse to touch them. Nothing should be built for you in mind.

[Tadkins]

Good. You haven't shown me a reason why it shouldn't be. I force fed you a mod to teach you your rotation and you can google your stat builds. You have all the tools but you refuse to touch them. Nothing should be built for you in mind.

So, thank you for admitting I'm right, I guess?

You talk as if I haven't tried all that stuff. Checking a stat priority on icy-veins helps, but it doesn't do much by itself.