Just make mastery and versatility more interesting and there you go.
Just make mastery and versatility more interesting and there you go.
I find it's annoying enough if you want to play multiple specs as it is, I see no gain from further separation of the specs
it's an horrible idea
A simple yet elegant solution would be to add these flavor stats back as tertiaries. That way all gear is the same, but if a +defense tertiary spawns, it'd be just a tad better at tanking.
I don't know if going back to the exact same stats we had before makes sense, but I do think that having role-specific stats made for more interesting gear. Sure, if a tanking piece drops with tank stats on it and you're a DPS or healer -- that sucks. But the flipside is that right now gear is so homogenized that it literally doesn't matter and is so boring that I can't remember the name of a single piece of gear from the last two expansions.
I've always played a tank and I really liked defensive stats. In my opinion, one of the cooler aspects of being a tank was being able to reduce incoming damage. Having parry, dodge, defense, armor, hit rating, expertise, etc. all added flavor to the game. Now, you get a piece of gear and it's always Stamina + Primary Stat + Versatility/Mastery/Haste/Critical Strike. So gear has devolved into "Pants of Mastery" and "Boots of Critical Strike". There's no nuance involved. Before, you might find one pair of boots that had really high stamina and armor values and another pair of boots with less stamina and armor, but more defense or dodge. And the gear didn't all come from a chest at the end of a dungeon or a roulette wheel in the major city.
So, although reducing the number of stats simplified things and made switching roles easier -- I think it detracted from the game massively.
I miss everything about Wrath gearing honestly. Trying to work in my hit/exp while being able to play with different stat builds. Armor Pen was the only real swing and a miss I believe. Give me back badges, tier sets, and all of the little things that would make gear exciting.
However, not everybody feels this way. Gearing offspecs and other characters has become much easier and I definitely appreciate that. There's just something about the excitement of working towards something missing now that everything is RNG.
Also worth pointing out that items are so boring now that they're basically a math formula. I can almost guarantee you they have an "item generator" where you set the ilvl and it spits out an item. The only thought they have to put into it is naming the damn things and maybe if they're feeling creative they come up with some procs they don't test and then have to nerf by 50% after they go out -- but those procs can just get put randomly on any of the pieces of gear.
In earlier expansions -- I think items were actually designed. That is, someone thought "hey, it would be cool if we had some pants that had less secondary stats, but had 3 gem slots" and so they designed an item like that. Now the "wouldn't it be cool if?" bit is gone and it's just a bunch of generated items with names assigned. The soul of these items is gone along with how they're acquired.
Balancing the old stats was a pain and stupid like my shadowpriest in wotlk took forever to drop the hit trinket from naxx. HOWEVER it made the game feel better to me. the current set of stats is boring as fuck, like someone else said the gear is inconsequential now. like its an ilvl upgrade so its probably an upgrade- specifically with how mythic+ works- oooo this belt is the BiS belt for the ENTIRE GODAMN EXPANSION, i just have to come back and get it each patch.. stupid..
I do wish parry/block/dodge were on gear, i wish reforging was still in the game, i wish mana pools werent static(hell maybe they arent anymore, i stopped healing after wrath when they made it not fun) versatility is a trash stat and i can't believe they ever added it and kept it. mastery is really the only interesting stat and that only applies if your spec's mastery is actually good- they could do a lot more with mastery than they do.
The game will never add more stats though, that's just how it is.
There's also nothing stopping Blizzard from resurrecting both Arthas and Archimonde and turning them into super saiyans so that they can fuse and fight Sargeras
As someone who remembers simming every drop b/c of haste / armor pen / hit / etc, I enjoy the simplified stat system. I also enjoy the flexibility in gearing more than one spec. I still find gearing for the optimal stat balance in PvE challenging since I don't PvP. My OS is weaker, but I'm not totally gimped having to farm a totally different set of gear either.
I miss set bonuses, BUT I also enjoy that less gear is wasted. Nothing felt worse than disenchanting drops b/c x or y class / spec wasn't in the raid. As much as I enjoyed collecting a tier for the look and bonuses, not all sets were created equal either. There are a lot of pros / cons to gear then, TBC / WotlK, and now. What I miss most is class specific gear cosmetically. I had full T5 Rift Stalker, and there was no mistaking that I was a Hunter. It meant something during TBC to have a full tier set which kind of gets into another can of worms regarding raid structure / difficulty. I wish Blizzard would spend the resources on class specific themes for Raid gear though.
hmm... I already have multiple sets for my characters that have multiple roles. Changing the name of stats won't make that better or worse just "more" of managing it.
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not sure how that is elegant since we know if there are a way for minimal stat gains players will claim you require the tertiary stats....thus you have to grind for those RNG. If we make it through purchase it will require players to grind to make new gear viable etc etc...
It's weird players haven't learned this yet that as soon as you give some optional gain, but gain non-theless, it sort of become mandatory in the eyes of the players.
We saw this with TF/WF that people claimed they were forced to play the RNG lottery for those ilvl gains even though it's hardly required for anyone. And now we have it when it comes to conduits... people claim they are forced to grind stygia to buy and upgrade conduits to max ilvl. Same with legendaries...
For me when I checked upgrading from 225 to 235 or whatever the next highest ilvl was, I would gain 20dps, which is close to margin of error. Yet people are claiming they have to get it to max or they aren't viable....
No solution that provides any miniscule gain in power will ever be "elegant" in my opinion.
Last edited by Kumorii; 2021-05-02 at 05:51 PM.
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"We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
-Louis Brandeis
There are 0 guilds in the world that expect healers to have +Leech gear because it's a tertiary. Many of the top players in the world rerun heroic fights every week for a chance at the same trinket with a tertiary bonus. Last expansion, there were literally hundreds of razor coral farm groups because everyone wanted the trinket with a socket.
People farm for the tertiaries because they are powerful. It hasn't destroyed the game yet. Adding more tertiaries would have an essentially zero impact on guild recruitment and farming requirements of world top players. It's already there.
ITT: "No, we need less barriers to entry, not more" and "Yes, I like tedious, uninteresting checklist stats."
One of those is a self-serving response and the other is the way the game needs to be. I'll let you guys figure out which is which.
Last edited by Belloc; 2021-05-02 at 06:04 PM.
Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
Dragonslayer Kooqu
Eh, Not sure why you focus on top players.... I spoke about players in general. I see most complaints about farming for X or Y from HC / Mythic prog players and others who rather blame their gear rather than their own skill no matter what skill bracket they are in.
But you are right... the current tertiary are a "nice" bonus, mostly because it's hardly noticeable. So I guess that's no harm, but I don't see how it adds much value either.
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A few things:
1) Tanks DO gain defensive benefit from traditionally 'offensive' stats. DK/Warr/Pal/DH all gain parry from crit, Druid gets dodge, and Monk gets extra healing. Haste adds defensive value through reduced CDs/increased resource generation, etc. Gear still makes tanks more tank-y- just in more roundabout ways that ALSO have offensive bonuses (more on that later)
2) You have to keep in mind that there were more reasons than "simplicity" or "ease of switching roles" that led to the removal of defensive stats. Remember "Chill of the Throne" or "Radiance of the Sunwell?" Throughout an expansion, as defensive stats got higher and higher, bosses had to hit harder and harder to actually be dangerous (making tank survival much more RNG based), and by the end of both BC and Wrath it got so out of hand that they had to institute zone-wide debuffs in raids that reduced dodge chance.
3) Another reason for the removal of defensive stats also pertained to scaling throughout the expansions. As tanks focused on getting tank-ier, DPS kept focusing on straight damage, meaning that tank damage (and thus threat) fell farther and farther behind DPS as the expansion progressed. They attempted to solve this in MoP with Vengeance, but that had its own set of issues, so the solution that they have settled on since WoD is basically what we have today: tanks use "DPS" stats so that their damage scales accordingly throughout the expansion, and on top of that, tanks get defensive benefits from DPS stats- while also keeping avoidance levels under control.
Last edited by Gestopft; 2021-05-02 at 06:56 PM.
"We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
-Louis Brandeis