So i got a response from J Allen Brack (which I wasn't expecting)

[Thraps]

Is Bellular even a game developer

Yeah he is. He founded Coffee Box Games, i believe its part of some programme in Northern Ireland to make games i think there working on:

How to Kill Monsters – Coffee Box Games

A 2D Strategy role playing game (RPG) where the player fights off monsters with giant mechs. The player commands an isolated society in a post-apocalyptic world of colossal monsters, where they have to balance combat with resource management and faction politics.

Thats as much as i know, not sure how the development is going, or what the game is like at all, could be absolute trash for all i know or even way off playable.

[XDurionX]

Yeah I am going to tell a bunch of cocky big mouth forum warriors to zip it if they start making personal claims about me, I couldnt give a fuck what you think either, sitting here with nothing better to do than be a typical forum poster, never has anything to say constructively but happy to shit on others that have something you dont to make yourself feel better

Oh the irony.

[Lolites]

However doesn't that content creator appeal to the people that are watching that creator and they watch because they share the same view point initially anyway?

hard to say bcs some of them dont present their opinion but what will get them most views, i literaly saw belular claiming two polar opposite things in two videos posted the same day (i actualy stoped watching Bellular bcs of it some time ago)...
as for Preach, i dont watch him, but i do believe he is not like that, BUT! from what i saw all his videos are from his point of view - mythic raider, which is logical and completely ok, but definitely doesnt represent big part of community...

[Ryzeth]

You've no fucking clue how much money ive made in my lifetime,

Generally the ones who make a lot of money don't need to tell people they make a lot. They certainly don't go around arguing it on the internet.

I think the only Masters you've achieved, is in cringey shitposting. Unfortunately there's no particularly lucrative jobs hiring those kinda degrees.

[Lolites]

Yeah he is. He founded Coffee Box Games, i believe its part of some programme in Northern Ireland to make games i think there working on:

How to Kill Monsters – Coffee Box Games

A 2D Strategy role playing game (RPG) where the player fights off monsters with giant mechs. The player commands an isolated society in a post-apocalyptic world of colossal monsters, where they have to balance combat with resource management and faction politics.

Thats as much as i know, not sure how the development is going, or what the game is like at all, could be absolute trash for all i know or even way off playable.

i mean, no offense to him, but taking his experience and apply it to blizzard is a bit like someone writing two short stories they didnt even let anyone read and then proceed to lecture Stephen King about how to write properly...

[Cazze]

Yeah I am going to tell a bunch of cocky big mouth forum warriors to zip it if they start making personal claims about me, I couldnt give a fuck what you think either, sitting here with nothing better to do than be a typical forum poster, never has anything to say constructively but happy to shit on others that have something you dont to make yourself feel better

You sound so bitter for someone as successful as you. Don't you have anything better to work on than rage on the forums, mister? Or is this why it takes you so long to develop your games? What games by the way? Way too much boasting and nothing to show for it. Is it some big Hollywood secret you are working on?

[shise]

Sad part is that it is true.

However, Blizzard seems to have finally been fully embraced or devoured by Activision. They are not blind to their player base, all that matters is profitability.

And those think that this is normal, it is a business.. you are wrong. You only get short term gains if you focus your experience products on maximum profitability.. Quality is the key to achieve long term success.

[Raisei]

Yet hes absolutely right on so many issues. Half the community is the so called 'corporate defence force' which I believe is dead on fucking true, its crazy how many people just bend over and take these shit unfinished systems in the ass while they pay 410 per expansion roughly, and hes not talking about managing a multi billion dollar triple A title at all, hes pointing out clear design flaws that shouldnt exist whether you're running indie or a huge AAA title. Shit like

He pretends to know better then the Blizzards devs, while not having a clue of the issues they need to deal with, since he was never in their position. It's extremely easy to say "just do this and that and everything will be right" if you are not the one that has to take responsibility for those decisions when they completely bomb in the end and cost thousands of jobs. That is what Bellular and you as his minion have no idea of.

Their entire philosophy is completely about metrics and keeping players in the game for as many months as possible with absolutely no consideration of whether they are going to enjoy it, and its going to lead to people quitting this game for good.

I fucking love WoW yet the last time I truly played was Legion, and before that, Mists!

If you love WoW then you might consider that the people who make it maintain it do need money to live. I just adore these arguments, speaking as if the world was made of rainbows and sunshine and the devs are only working out of love. I can only say, grow up. Companies need to make money or people loose their livelyhoods, stop pretending like a company trying to get money is the biggest crime in history.

And despite this necessity they made this expansion extremly casual friendly. I could have unsubbed month ago and would stilll be good for 9.1. because I don't need to farm anything.

Thats what bellular points out and I agree, I appreciate that is my subjective personal opinion but Ive been in the industry my entire adult life and I think that gives me a pretty unique outlook on WoW.

Of course you agree. You and every other hater flock to his channel to have your opinions validated by this guy telling them back to you. That does not change the fact that it's just opinions and he is not qualified to tell the devs what they should do. It just shows how good he is in hosting his echo chambers and exploiting your hate for his bottom line.

Also, "a unique outlook"? Please, this forum is full to the brim with people repeating the exact same grievences on a daily basis.

I mean shit like what you wrote just amazes me. You have 0 clue how difficult it is to make movies and games, you cant say that until his game releases he isnt a dev. Not how it works lol.

The irony of this ... I mean really...

[Ryzeth]

Did I tell anyone how much money id made? No, I responded to someone telling me that I hadnt made anything with a statement of fact that I have managed to better myself and put myself in a position to open a studio. I couldnt give a fuck if they dont like it. Dont give people shit and make personal statements about others if you arent willing for them to respond. You're the one being cringe as fuck here.

"You're the one being cringe as fuck here."
~ Guy rage-replying to everyone.

Sorry, fam, that spotlight still goes to you.

[Garymorilix]

Regarding the first highlighted part.

Naby, you have absolutely 0 idea how long it takes to make a game with a small team. You tell me to not be so fucking delusional, mate, you're the one acting completely delusional if you dont think that it takes years to make a game.

Games like battlefield have teams over 200-500 people and still take 2 years to make on average.

Red dead redemption 2 had more than 2000 people work on it at points and took 7 years

Bellular has like 10 fucking people. Do the math.

Why am I defending him, because I happen to be in a similar position as him. I worked in hollywood for the early part of my adult life then transitioned into video games. Im now running a startup studio. I agree with the vast majority of what he says about the WoW team. He might abuse the youtube algorithm and all that but hes a smart fucking guy clearly. And yeah, I see people shit on people trying to startup studios and all the rest and then get shit on by people who probably are just depressed and sick of their shit jobs, so they shit on people who they're jealous of, its fucking cringe.



Because someone who has run a small studio for 2 years has significantly more authority on how to run a game development project, even if it is scaled up by 30x, than some fucking jealous babies on forums who scream and cry about opinions and authority because THEY dont have any.



You've no fucking clue how much money ive made in my lifetime, I happened to make enough money in my early adult life to start a studio up to why dont you zip it before you look stupid. What sort of a fucking stupid personal attack are you trying to make. You saying there is no obvious terrible design when half the community is quitting over it is ridiculous. SL peaked sub numbers at al all time high, which puts it over 13m, and estimates are that its already sub 6 million. Tell me the dropoff isnt more than it historically should be.
and for every big mouth like you doing m+ there are MORE people who have quit the game since SL launched. Whats your point.

Show me the numbers big boy.
Show me any graph, excel sheet or whatever insider document you can to back yourself up.
Where are those "more" people you refer to?

I don't care how much money you made, you ain't made enough money in your hardcore dev life to compete with just the past one year of WoW.
What game you made, eh? Drop some links for us, don't be shy.

A fucking kickstarter scam can show more actual work done in 2 years than fucking Bellular has.
He ain't got nothing but pins, and you know it. Ain't got no more authority than a 10 y old making levels on mario maker 2.
Let's wait for another 5 years before he can show the groundbreaking gameplay of some 2D cartoon drawn action adventure mobile game.

From where I'm sitting you're all talk, no proof.
And I don't have to bow down to your greatness just because you think you're a big deal.
Better go back and develop your early access battle royale title for steam or something.

[XDurionX]

Oh the irony. Who are you to judge what others on a forum do in their personal or professional lives. I defended Bellular because I happen to agree with him and in return I had a bunch of people tell me that I have no right to have an opinion, that they make more money than I ever have, and that I couldnt do the job, when none of you even know who I am. Fucking embarrasing logic.

Nobody in his right mind would hire someone like Bellular for Ion's position. You're right, i know fuck about what you're doing, but i'm pretty confident that you're not in charge of a multi billion dollar franchise, and never have been. Management of a project becomes expoentially harder with size. Ion is ultimately responsible for most of the decisions he didn't take. The amount of projection going on in these kind of threads is still really staggering and laughable. So is the OPs hybris.

[Nokura]

fair enough. i wrote that fast and made an an error. i know it's suppose to be your because its his grammar and not you are grammar. sometimes i fail to take a step back and read what i am about to post.

We can tell.

[Lolites]

SL peaked sub numbers at al all time high, which puts it over 13m, and estimates are that its already sub 6 million.

i would love source on these numbers, bcs both of them are asspulled, we have no sub numbers since WOD...

[Lolites]

No they arent asspulled, do a bit of research, google shadowlands sub record, and you'll find a ton of official statements proving this. Compare that with historical known records from when they did announce this and you can say its 12m+

source or admit you are bullshiting, "google it" is not a source...
there was NONE official statement claiming sub numbers or that its highest ever... and even if so, the second number with current subs would still be asspull...

[Fluxoz]

That initial email reads like the most cringe shit I could imagne. No matter how correct the you could be, I would never in a million years listen to someone that comes from the point of "The streamers that form my opinion said a system is bad, and ion isnt backing away from the idea even though my streamers say he should, so ion is bad and has ruined wow and should be fired!"

How you feel no shame when posting something so utterly juvanile, without it being posted in an attempt at trolling or irony, is just beyond my ability to grasp.

[Lolites]

I told you to google it, google anything like "Shadowlands record sub numbers" click on the top 10 results and you'll find a lot of what im talking about.

and if i google lizard people i will find a lot of information too, doesnt make it correct...
YOU CLAIM SOMETHING, providing proof (official statement or mention in interview by high blizz official claiming it) is up to you, not up to people to "google it", if you cant provide source your "information" is pure work of fiction...

but i do your work for you, "In the months leading up to the expansion’s release and the time since launch, the game reached and has sustained its highest number of players on monthly or longer-term subscriptions compared to the same period ahead of and following any WoW expansion in the past decade"

highest sub numbers around exp launch in past decade WE KNOW of was begining of pandaria and WOD, and that was 10m, so your asspull is already 3m off ("only" 30% off target, much precise), now how about that loosing 7m you claim to be true also, should i even bother after how TERRIBLY OFF the first number was?

[Raven]

Obviously? He dosent have the experience for it but that dosent mean that everything he points out is incorrect or untrue, most of what bellular points out is low level design basics that they cant even get right. You're pretty confident that im not incharge of a multi billion dollar franchise, and never have been, but again what does that prove? Until Ion was made lead dev neither had he, you could find thousands of devs that might be capable and have the experience whom would disagree or agree with Ion, I never even said it was Ions fault solely either, I said that the philosophy of that team needs to change because they're getting basics badly wrong.

Management becomes harder with size, yet WoW isnt even that big of a team compared to other AAA gam, so whats your point.

Correct, but thats why we say the 'WoW team' not 'Ion' furthermore, im not defending OP, I literally pointed out that people shitting on Bellular have no idea what its like to do what he does, and have no right to say that he dosent get to have an opinion, hes doing something tough, trying to make his own studio and find his own place in the industry and he gets no respect for that, lots of devs would agree with him because he talks about design basics. If people dont like him still, fine, you dont have to, but then others coming in here like little babies making claims about what I have or havent done can fuck right off lol.

- - - Updated - - -



I told you to google it, google anything like "Shadowlands record sub numbers" click on the top 10 results and you'll find a lot of what im talking about.

Did like you said and googled it, impressive got nothing like what you claim, the closest i got was someone posting on official forums asking if its over 10 m again.

And some site claiming to show the wow polulation from 2015 until 2023 which is nice, think they know lottery numbers for 2023 also ?

[NordWitcher]

Are you really surprised that he responded to your pet issues and assumptions with the obvious responses that the community never wants to hear but needs to accept?

Spoiler alert: The game isn't losing subs because it's getting worse or because they're not listening to the community -- it's losing subs because it's over 15 years old and the hardcore install base has grown up and has either burnt out or no longer has the time to play it and the market simply isn't there to continue sustaining those kinds of numbers. 15+ year old games don't maintain subscriber numbers, period. The fact that WoW is still the king of MMOs is a testament to how well-designed and popular it is.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but you're way off base on your assumptions.

H
I would agree to your statement to a certain extent. However, every expansion up until Legion felt unique and different from the last one, Legion more so than any. There was a ton to do with a lot of unique features that was never there before. It was huge for a MMO. However, since Legion, BFA And Shadowlands feel like an extension of Legion with similar features, designs, etc. They've not changed or improved on anything. They've sadly gone back wards for the worse. Up until Legion you saw innovation and improvement in game features. The last couple expansions has seen Blizzard gotten lazy and stagnant. Its almost like they are just creating a grind for the sake of grinding rather than the grind being rewarded.

I read this in another post - World of Warcraft used to be a game that made you want to waste your time. Now it's just a game that wastes your time. I remember back in the early years, there was a lot less content to do in the game but the game would still feel fresh and make you want to log in. Right now there is a lot more content and side activities but they just waste your time without making it feel rewarding. That is sadly where the problem there in lies. Its more like Blizzard is going out of their way to make your time more inconvenient rather than fun, to draw out the process so that you can stay subscribed longer and to drag on whatever content they have for months on end. That is just terrible game design. When you look at other similar games as a service like Destiny 2, etc you see a lot in common.

Right now Blizzard are so scared of losing subscribers they are literally doing everything to further drive down subscribers instead of actually doing things to make the current subscribers happy.

[Lolites]

Did like you said and googled it, impressive got nothing like what you claim, the closest i got was someone posting on official forums asking if its over 10 m again.

and even that isnt actualy confirmed....

[Thraps]

hard to say bcs some of them dont present their opinion but what will get them most views, i literaly saw belular claiming two polar opposite things in two videos posted the same day (i actualy stoped watching Bellular bcs of it some time ago)...
as for Preach, i dont watch him, but i do believe he is not like that, BUT! from what i saw all his videos are from his point of view - mythic raider, which is logical and completely ok, but definitely doesnt represent big part of community...

I agree Preach doesnt represent a big part of the community, all im saying is he represents his community of people of which Blizzard do keep an eye on as they do Asmon and Bellular, which all do different aspects of the game. Im the same stopped watching Bellular a long time ago.

I like to read the comments on content, and you would be surprised on how many isn't lemmings to the creator tho.