Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[The Stormbringer]

I've been told by beatiful people with smart faces that, usa is *the* World Police, the Country of Democracy, the Freedom Fighters, the Protectors and peace brokers.

I've one question, though:
why usa doesn't broker peace between israel and Palestine?
why there are no *actions* to stop the bloodshed?
why does usa send bombs and money to israel, but doesn't send diplomatic forces and efforts?

There have been plenty of actions to try to broker peace, they're just not happening out in the open for everyone in the public to see. As I understand it, the current attempts are leaning heavily in empowering the Palestinian Authority, and helping reform them at the same time so that they're more palatable for Palestinians who may have formerly been under Hamas. Plus, you know, our government repeatedly advising and asking Israel's to stop with the violence and actually come to the peace tables and talk.

Unless by "action" you mean something stupid like, I dunno, sending our troops out there to get in front of Israel's forces and convince them to stop firing, or something.

[PgStckr]

There have been plenty of actions to try to broker peace, they're just not happening out in the open for everyone in the public to see. As I understand it, the current attempts are leaning heavily in empowering the Palestinian Authority, and helping reform them at the same time so that they're more palatable for Palestinians who may have formerly been under Hamas. Plus, you know, our government repeatedly advising and asking Israel's to stop with the violence and actually come to the peace tables and talk.

Unless by "action" you mean something stupid like, I dunno, sending our troops out there to get in front of Israel's forces and convince them to stop firing, or something.

Uh-huh, I see.
I'm thinking more along the lines of cutting off the money/weaponry stream to israel.
They won't be able to go on with genocide if they run out of bombs and shekelis.

Speaking of stupid, at the moment, there are talks going on about sending french troopers and a latvian trooper to ukraine meatgrinder, so porqoius pas, as they say.

[s_bushido]

Sunday news feed was plastered with the image of the US dropping aid into Gaza. But there's no (sane) reason why the trucks shouldn't be allowed safely into Gaza. Why can civilians distribute aid better than the IDF could? There's US cities larger than Gaza, and the trucks can't get in? Most people are now in Rafah, the border.

All im saying is the IDF is lacking.

Because the people dropping that aid don't want to get bombed...since everyone in the world knows that's what the IDF is doing (even the ones who want to pretend otherwise).

[The Stormbringer]

Uh-huh, I see.
I'm thinking more along the lines of cutting off the money/weaponry stream to israel.
They won't be able to go on with genocide if they run out of bombs and shekelis.

Speaking of stupid, at the moment, there are talks going on about sending french troopers and a latvian trooper to ukraine meatgrinder, so porqoius pas, as they say.

That would be nice, and I would also love to see the USA cutting off the revenue and war supplies they're sending to the Israel government (stuff to the civilians like food, medicine, emergency supplies, etc is 100% fine to send). Unfortunately, the American government far more wants to keep Israel as our strong ally in the Middle-East than they want to protect people from a genocide... It's fucked up, but that's the reality of the situation. Israel is a 'check' on the rest of the Middle-East, and as long as they're allies with the US, then the US will do what's needed to keep them allies.

Also, that does sound pretty fucking stupid. But I understand that things in Ukraine are getting desperate with all the fucking around the GOP is doing in regards to sending Ukraine more aid, so I can kind of get why they'd be discussing stupid stuff.

[ParanoiD84]

I've been told by beatiful people with smart faces that, usa is *the* World Police, the Country of Democracy, the Freedom Fighters, the Protectors and peace brokers.

I've one question, though:
why usa doesn't broker peace between israel and Palestine?
why there are no *actions* to stop the bloodshed?
why does usa send bombs and money to israel, but doesn't send diplomatic forces and efforts?

US aid accounts for less then 1% of Israels gdp today compared to 16% in 1974, Israel is far more self relient today.

It would still sting of course but not nearly as much.

[Gaidax]

Uh-huh, I see.
I'm thinking more along the lines of cutting off the money/weaponry stream to israel.
They won't be able to go on with genocide if they run out of bombs and shekelis.

Speaking of stupid, at the moment, there are talks going on about sending french troopers and a latvian trooper to ukraine meatgrinder, so porqoius pas, as they say.

Considering we have about half the foreign currency reserves of Russia for a country with our 1/14 populace and 1/100-ish size, we ain't going to be running out of them "shekelis" anytime soon, Vladimir.

You better worry about where you are going to get them rubles to pay Iran for more drones in a few years.

[Spectral]

Considering we have about half the foreign currency reserves of Russia for a country with our 1/14 populace and 1/100-ish size, we ain't going to be running out of them "shekelis" anytime soon, Vladimir.

You better worry about where you are going to get them rubles to pay Iran for more drones in a few years.

This really does highlight one of the grave errors that people make when thinking about the topic. People seem to believe that if the United States pulls funding, this will stop Israel from waging war against its enemies. In this case, it seems much more likely that Israel would simply view this as a betrayal by the United States, but elect to proceed without that funding.

Of course, one can have an argument about whether aid to Israel is a good policy or not regardless of whether it directly changes their actions, but attempting to use that aid as leverage will probably just not work at the moment.

[Gaidax]

This really does highlight one of the grave errors that people make when thinking about the topic. People seem to believe that if the United States pulls funding, this will stop Israel from waging war against its enemies. In this case, it seems much more likely that Israel would simply view this as a betrayal by the United States, but elect to proceed without that funding.

Of course, one can have an argument about whether aid to Israel is a good policy or not regardless of whether it directly changes their actions, but attempting to use that aid as leverage will probably just not work at the moment.

Money is probably the least effective influence mechanism for us, we have more than plenty of that one. Wouldn't mind them 14 billion dollars and in the end we will get them once them kids in congress get enough mutual candies, but we're doing just fine without those so far too.

US has far more effective leverages here and the pressure will grow but given the elections year and general public affinity, in addition to the usual "national interests" - Biden would be hard pressed to go too hard.

It's like the last months of Obama, the most he could muster is not veto some pesky resolution that was more of a symbolic move, rather than anything that actually matters.

[Draco-Onis]

This really does highlight one of the grave errors that people make when thinking about the topic. People seem to believe that if the United States pulls funding, this will stop Israel from waging war against its enemies. In this case, it seems much more likely that Israel would simply view this as a betrayal by the United States, but elect to proceed without that funding.

Of course, one can have an argument about whether aid to Israel is a good policy or not regardless of whether it directly changes their actions, but attempting to use that aid as leverage will probably just not work at the moment.

I mean that theory is all nice and dandy if only you ignore the history when past presidents such as Ronald Reagan did this using that threat. You would also have to ignore Israeli generals who have openly said they couldn't continue this war for long without US support since it's all made in the good old USA.

That's why Biden pretending there's nothing he can do is ludicrous and is a bad optics especially when he is going around congress to stuff their pockets.

[PACOX]

The idea that Israel would go half as hard if the US wasn't subsidizing their operations is laughable.

Its not a war of survival or defense. Its retaliatory. If Israel was spending it's own money it would be a lot more surgical and actually going after Hamas instead dropping bombs on any and everything, because it's not like they paid for them.

If it was their money even the warkhawks would be demanding reports of confirmed kills and effectiveness versus Hamas.

They aren't doing this with their own money.

[BlackDruid96]

Because the people dropping that aid don't want to get bombed...since everyone in the world knows that's what the IDF is doing (even the ones who want to pretend otherwise).

Are you really suggesting that the IDF would bomb an aid drop?

[Elegiac]

Saying that foreign pressure wouldn't be effective in reining in Israel is a spurious argument if only because it's not something the Israeli government itself believes - as evidenced by the way they spend so much effort on espionage and lobbying in the West to the point it compromises actual antiterrorism efforts.

"We totally don't need the money, which you can tell by the way we harass anyone that says we shouldn't get the money into silence" is not the pudding of an honest woman.

[Jessicka]

Are you really suggesting that the IDF would bomb an aid drop?

They shot one up and killed 100+ people in the process.

[Draco-Onis]

They shot one up and killed 100+ people in the process.

Now now the IDF has investigated itself and found out they did nothing wrong, you know sometimes I feel sorry for satirist the IDF is putting them out of a job. There's still no word on the IDF apprehending the most awful of terrorists group called the days of the week.

[PACOX]

Are you really suggesting that the IDF would bomb an aid drop?

How did you get that from what they said?

My post was rhetorical but he spelled it. The IDF impededs trucks by bombing them, bombing around them, or blocking them. When they actually distribute aid people end up dying.

So other countries go around the IDF by airdropping aid because the IDF can't be trusted around trucks.

[Jessicka]

Now now the IDF has investigated itself and found out they did nothing wrong, you know sometimes I feel sorry for satirist the IDF is putting them out of a job. There's still no word on the IDF apprehending the most awful of terrorists group called the days of the week.

Well obviously they did nothing wrong, because even after literally admitting it several times over, and after widespread video evidence was produced as well, they still came to the conclusion that it was in fact, Hamas.

- - - Updated - - -

How did you get that from what they said?

My post was rhetorical but he spelled it. The IDF impededs trucks by bombing them, bombing around them, or blocking them. When they actually distribute aid people end up dying.

So other countries go around the IDF by airdropping aid because the IDF can't be trusted around trucks.

Never mind that there are blockades on the Israeli side of the border blocking the trucks access from Israel, and similarly Egypt are under considerable duress about opening the gates there. Israel have put an actual quota on the amount of trucks they'll allow in from there, and that is no doubt under threat of violence. Air drops are the only way around that.

[Jastall]

This really does highlight one of the grave errors that people make when thinking about the topic. People seem to believe that if the United States pulls funding, this will stop Israel from waging war against its enemies. In this case, it seems much more likely that Israel would simply view this as a betrayal by the United States, but elect to proceed without that funding.

Of course, one can have an argument about whether aid to Israel is a good policy or not regardless of whether it directly changes their actions, but attempting to use that aid as leverage will probably just not work at the moment.

Israel isn't reliant on America for money, but it is reliant on it for many other purposes, such as weaponry, technology and just having the world's #1 superpower as a reliable ally. It is no coincidence that the nation lobbies Congress and other American institutions so hard.

[PgStckr]

Considering we have about half the foreign currency reserves of Russia for a country with our 1/14 populace and 1/100-ish size, we ain't going to be running out of them "shekelis" anytime soon, Vladimir.

You better worry about where you are going to get them rubles to pay Iran for more drones in a few years.

You know, I have a colleague here, he's a jew.
He asked me the other day, how do I treat and feel about the jews.
And I answered that I feel and treat jews just like they treat Russians.
He then proceeded to call me antisemite.
Any idea as to why?

This really does highlight one of the grave errors that people make when thinking about the topic. People seem to believe that if the United States pulls funding, this will stop Israel from waging war against its enemies. In this case, it seems much more likely that Israel would simply view this as a betrayal by the United States, but elect to proceed without that funding.

Of course, one can have an argument about whether aid to Israel is a good policy or not regardless of whether it directly changes their actions, but attempting to use that aid as leverage will probably just not work at the moment.

Well, I won't pretend I've any insights on global economies at all.
Just thinking, if you start cutting israel on money and weaponry, it *MIGHT* stifle or even somewhat cool down their eagerness to genocide semite people of Palestine. Speaking of that, turns out, jews can be antisemites, can they?

[Gaidax]

You know, I have a colleague here, he's a jew.
He asked me the other day, how do I treat and feel about the jews.
And I answered that I feel and treat jews just like they treat Russians.
He then proceeded to call me antisemite.
Any idea as to why?

Considering the rampant antisemitism in Russia, that's quite a curious question. Reminds me of "если в кране нет воды - значит выпили жиды", Vysotsky, if memory serves me correctly? And he himself borrowed it from another source. That was a satiric song and a good one at that, but to the point - where the usual Russian troubles find all kinds of explanations including "Jews".

Surprised I know Vysotsky? I am half-Russian myself, buddy. I know a lot of things to know about Russia and such.

Decades, if not centuries of traditional antisemitism, coupled with current day Russian selling out to Iran, constant king's welcomes for Hamas to Kremlin, implications such as Hitler having Jewish roots from no less than your Foreign Minister and a simple fact that for decades Soviet Union and then Russia supplied and trained our direct enemies leave our perception of Russia quite low.

Practically, don't ask for love if you're the ones who're spreading the hate all over the place. Quite frankly, the Jews in Russia should have bought plane ticket to Israel or any other place literally "yesterday" - they did not learn anything from Germany of 1930s, which is what Russia seems to be going for nowadays. That incident with mobs hunting for Jews on the plane in Russia a few months ago should have been yet another wakeup call.

And given Russia is going fast forward to the shitter, I am sure the good 'ol "Jews did it" as explanation to why things are shit will rise yet again there.

[Muzjhath]

Saying that foreign pressure wouldn't be effective in reining in Israel is a spurious argument if only because it's not something the Israeli government itself believes - as evidenced by the way they spend so much effort on espionage and lobbying in the West to the point it compromises actual antiterrorism efforts.

"We totally don't need the money, which you can tell by the way we harass anyone that says we shouldn't get the money into silence" is not the pudding of an honest woman.

Israel are fucking proud of what they're doing.
Their Eurovision admission even had a fucking political message about October 7th in it. They got forced to change it.

I still think they should get thrown out as Russia was. But sadly the TV networks that organize it as has of yet not faced enough pressure. I'm hoping for so many Palestinian flags in the crowd.