Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Endus]

Guess what, Israel attacks foreign nation (since so many calls Palestine a state) with military force. What was even the point? Except that you still not get that no one in the real world would take rocket attacks and not answer.

Then you can't really complain much about said rocket attacks. It's an ongoing military conflict. You can't call them "terrorism", you need to accept that until you sue for peace, the hostilities will continue. And that's what you want. As you support hostilities, as wlel.

Oh no, Jews are good at war! Therefore they are at fault for defeating the attacking Arab forces!
GENIUS

Literally not what I said. I just pointed out that the State of Israel is not a put-upon victim of stronger nations. It's the powerhouse in the region.

[Themius]

But who started shooting between the two forces? I'm sure there are any number of incidents that either side can point to in justifying any kind of attack, but this time around, who (essentially) fired first? Did Israel start bombing or did Palestine start sending rockets over?

Israel's actions count as an invasion... retaliation, violent retaliation, is still a retaliation.

[Elegiac]

Because they were originally attacked first. The 1967 war would have wiped them off the map had they lost.

Y'all forgetting the bit where Palestine was inhabited prior to Israel being a thing, apparently.

Israel would have been wiped off the map had they lost. Palestine is still being wiped off the map in a century-long process and y'all are excusing it because reasons.

[Draco-Onis]

I compared the support from Arab states in 2004, to that of now. To claim there is more support, due to deals with Arab states like UAE and Azebarjan. Something else is missing... and like I said... I think it’s Arafat...

Edit: It’s actually pretty bad to not mention Arafat, when discussing this conflict for so many pages. He was a... character...

Okay I will put it another way, What would Israel gain now if they got peace? Bibi and Gantz would lose power jail time for Bibi because they aren't doing well on domestic policy. If you snapped your finger and bam two state solution Israel's leadership loses in every single way, a few lives each year thanks to the iron dome is a small price to pay for what they get from continuing the killing.

[Themius]

Y'all forgetting the bit where Palestine was inhabited prior to Israel being a thing, apparently.

But anti-semetic Europeans and Americans who didn't want jews in their own lands decided it best to just you know... stick them in Palestine.

I mean after all just think about how many ambassadors from west Germany had literal ties to Hitler's Germany... there was no fucking way America or any European country (which had a long history of kicking out jews) was gonna suddenly take them in after ww2.

[Elegiac]

Okay I will put it another way, What would Israel gain now if they got peace? Bibi and Gantz would lose power jail time for Bibi because they aren't doing well on domestic policy. If you snapped your finger and bam two state solution Israel's leadership loses in every single way, a few lives each year thanks to the iron dome is a small price to pay for what they get from continuing the killing.

Hence why the necessary strategy has moved past mediated negotiations and towards treating Israel like South Africa until it complies.

Isolate and impoverish.

[Easo]

I wonder, does Themius consider Soviet Union as "Europeans" too?

Um, yes?

Generally it's regarded as a bad thing when a highly equipped and technologically advanced force engages in ethnic cleansing and colonisation against a smaller and inferior force, especially when the latter poses no existential threat to the former.

Now its about colonisation and ethnic cleansing? Oh FFS.

Y'all forgetting the bit where Palestine was inhabited prior to Israel being a thing, apparently.

Israel would have been wiped off the map had they lost. Palestine is still being wiped off the map in a century-long process and y'all are excusing it because reasons.

Yeah, well, UN happened. So how far back you wanna go?

So Elegiac, are you proposing to change the internationally agreed borders of Israel? Since it is 2021, maybe let's also change whatever country you are from? Why not, I mean, it is 2021, as your meme implies.
P.S.
You did not answer if you are ready to die for the map of 1947.

Then you can't really complain much about said rocket attacks. It's an ongoing military conflict. You can't call them "terrorism", you need to accept that until you sue for peace, the hostilities will continue. And that's what you want. As you support hostilities, as wlel.

Literally not what I said. I just pointed out that the State of Israel is not a put-upon victim of stronger nations. It's the powerhouse in the region.

Yes, it is. AND? Attackers were also powerhouses, btw.

[Elegiac]

Yeah, well, UN happened. So how far back you wanna go?

In which you admit that it isn't actually a function of who is in the right, it's who has the most pull with the countries running the UN.

So Elegiac, are you proposing to change the internationally agreed borders of Israel? Since it is 2021, maybe let's also change whatever country you are from? Why not, I mean, it is 2021, as your meme implies.

I'm proposing to treat Israel like South Africa and isolate and sanction the shit out of it until Likud collapses and that country is fit to rejoin civilized society. Oh, and also giving as much aid to Palestine as is given to Israel. If it's a two-sided conflict as you claim, then both sides should be equally as well funded.

Is this the part you admit you can't come up with a decent reply and go "well that'll never happen so nyehhh" like a fourth grader? Lol.

[cubby]

Israel's actions count as an invasion... retaliation, violent retaliation, is still a retaliation.

According to what you're saying above, then Russian and the U.S. "invaded" Germany in WWII. I'm not sure that's correct.

[Endus]

Because they were originally attacked first. The 1967 war would have wiped them off the map had they lost.

If you're trying to present the Six Days' War as some unprovoked extinction attempt against Israel, that's really not the case.

Israel had invaded the Sinai Peninsula in '56, before being pushed back out, their main objective being shipping rights through the Straights of Tiran. Leading up to the Six Days' War, they were getting openly belligerent about attacking Egypt over the same issue. Egypt's feathers got ruffled and they moved forces to the border. Israel attacked Egypt at this point, launching the first attacks. They essentially cripped the Egyptian Air Force with the surprise strikes. Israel launched ground attacks at the same time into Gaza and the Sinai, conquering the region. Jordan got pulled in due to a defence pact with Egypt at this point.

Presenting the Six Days' War as Arab aggression is . . . fairly ridiculous. Israel launched the first strikes, and crippled the militaries of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria in doing so, hence the rapid ceasefire agreement.

Israel was categorically not attacked first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

[Elegiac]

According to what you're saying above, then Russian and the U.S. "invaded" Germany in WWII. I'm not sure that's correct.

Because it's a shitty comparison and you know it? Lol.

I mean aside from the fact Israel is engaging in the same shit in its occupied territories that the Germans did in theirs, but I'm not sure that was the comparison you intended.

[Cringefest]

But who started shooting between the two forces? I'm sure there are any number of incidents that either side can point to in justifying any kind of attack, but this time around, who (essentially) fired first? Did Israel start bombing or did Palestine start sending rockets over?

Well, more than 200 Palestinians were injured in the original confrontation. That is the start of this mess here. However, rockets were fired by hamas first, as a response for the events.

[Themius]

According to what you're saying above, then Russian and the U.S. "invaded" Germany in WWII. I'm not sure that's correct.

You know Palestinians are currently illegally being occupied and moved off their own lands... right? Are you literally trying to compare what Israel is doing to Palestinians to when the US and Russia attacked Germany as Germany tried to take over the fucking world you know... the thing Israel is trying to do in their own region complete with ghettos and apartheid.

Hey? Live in the Palestinian region but don't have yellow license plates? well guess what you don't have a right to travel everywhere within your own occupied region.

[Felya]

The Palestinians pay the price but the fact is from the very inception... Israel was nothing but a Jewish apartheid state set up due to European and American racism and anti-semitism.

"Oh the Holocaust not cool, but we don't want jews in America... nor do our allies want jews in Europe... but we all don't really like arabs and jews have some ties to the holy region of several religions so hey let's just give most of Palestine to the jews! This way we fuck over Arabs we don't like anyway, and we keep the jews out of our borders... who we also don't like!"

... and fighting each other... How many Jews or Muslims were on the council that cut up Palestine? 0... The British even had to be convinced to give up “their” land... who were the Jews or Muslims on the United Nations General Assembly, when adopting Resolution 181? Roosevelt promised Arab states to not intervene... Truman didn’t...

Oh and the original formation of Israel was supported by US in Balfour Declaration of 1917...

[Cringefest]

Hence why the necessary strategy has moved past mediated negotiations and towards treating Israel like South Africa until it complies.

Isolate and impoverish.

Which I think could really happen. The US were holding strong, but lets face it. They're a bit all over the place right now. Not sure how long they can handle the pressure for.

[Elegiac]

Which I think could really happen. The US were holding strong, but lets face it. They're a bit all over the place right now. Not sure how long they can handle the pressure for.

The reality of how one-sided the conflict is at this point seems to be pushing public opinion against Israel, so thanks social media! We might actually find some way of resolving this that doesn't involve giving Tel Aviv carte blanche to enact ethnic cleansing.

[Easo]

If you're trying to present the Six Days' War as some unprovoked extinction attempt against Israel, that's really not the case.

Israel had invaded the Sinai Peninsula in '56, before being pushed back out, their main objective being shipping rights through the Straights of Tiran. Leading up to the Six Days' War, they were getting openly belligerent about attacking Egypt over the same issue. Egypt's feathers got ruffled and they moved forces to the border. Israel attacked Egypt at this point, launching the first attacks. They essentially cripped the Egyptian Air Force with the surprise strikes. Israel launched ground attacks at the same time into Gaza and the Sinai, conquering the region. Jordan got pulled in due to a defence pact with Egypt at this point.

Presenting the Six Days' War as Arab aggression is . . . fairly ridiculous. Israel launched the first strikes, and crippled the militaries of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria in doing so, hence the rapid ceasefire agreement.

Israel was categorically not attacked first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

Uhu. Poor Jordan, was pulled in. Totally was not moving troops and equipment in position, same as Syria and Egypt. There were also no radio translations about driving the Jews into the sea, nada, noooope.
Endus has gone to pretty much open lying. Good to know. Yes, technically, they attacked first - in a war that was going to happen regardless. And it saved them from another Holocaust. But we here are all about technicalities. xD

Btw, they did a military unsound thing in 1973 - they let themselves be attacked first, which cost them dearly, to avoid the "ah but the first strike is baaaaaad". At least no one, people like you, can say that Israel attacked first in 1973.
P.S.
Next up - how Israel struck first in 1948, I guess xD

In which you admit that it isn't actually a function of who is in the right, it's who has the most pull with the countries running the UN.



I'm proposing to treat Israel like South Africa and isolate and sanction the shit out of it until Likud collapses and that country is fit to rejoin civilized society. Oh, and also giving as much aid to Palestine as is given to Israel. If it's a two-sided conflict as you claim, then both sides should be equally as well funded.

Is this the part you admit you can't come up with a decent reply and go "well that'll never happen so nyehhh" like a fourth grader? Lol.

All of the world's leaders were basically the same back then. Your problem is with the UN? Then go and complain to them about creation of Israel and everyone who supported it.

Yeah good luck with that isolation. Will not happen.

[Elegiac]

All of the world's leaders were basically the same back then.

Okay? The world being equally under the thumb of the American international order does not make Israel's actions justifiable?

It means you can't make an argument unless it's supplied to you, nothing more.

Your problem is with the UN?

Yes, my problem is with the creation of Israel and the insistence that nothing can be done about it when there's plenty that can be done, y'all just don't actually want to do it because of a mixture of guilt over the Shoah and present Islamophobia.

Yeah good luck with that isolation. Will not happen.

So yeah, the fourth grader response. Classy.

- - - Updated - - -

Uhu. Poor Jordan, was pulled in. Totally was not moving troops and equipment in position, same as Syria and Egypt. There were also no radio translations about driving the Jews into the sea, nada, noooope.

Gee I wonder what could have prompted them to do this.

>Israel had invaded the Sinai Peninsula in '56, before being pushed back out, their main objective being shipping rights through the Straights of Tiran. Leading up to the Six Days' War, they were getting openly belligerent about attacking Egypt over the same issue.

Reading comprehension, the only thing harder than solving the Israel-Palestine conflict, apparently.

[Cringefest]

The reality of how one-sided the conflict is at this point seems to be pushing public opinion against Israel, so thanks social media! We might actually find some way of resolving this that doesn't involve giving Tel Aviv carte blanche to enact ethnic cleansing.

Yes, it's a weird one actually. You can definitely feel the weight of Israeli influence on the media. Way more than in 2014 or 2008. But at the same time you have a lot of people actually facing the reality of things with a different outlook. The state of the media however is really, really grim. Al Jazeera was reporting but... well... They bombed it

[Draco-Onis]

The reality of how one-sided the conflict is at this point seems to be pushing public opinion against Israel, so thanks social media! We might actually find some way of resolving this that doesn't involve giving Tel Aviv carte blanche to enact ethnic cleansing.

Also wasn't good PR killing journalists and doctors on a regular basis even bombing hospitals and press buildings, their thirst for blood got in the way of their brain.