Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

No it was called "mandate of'" and in no way a colony of the British Empire.
Description from wiki.



Seems to me that neither of principles where followed.

Where have I stated it being colony? It was under the jurisdiction of the British Empire, fact.

The map also grossly glossed over the fact that Palestine had ceased to exist from 1948 until 1967, where it magically reappeared as Isreaeli-occupied territories, ignoring the annexation of Gaza by Egypt and the West Bank by Jordan in the previous interlude.

[Cringefest]

Where have I stated it being colony? It was under the jurisdiction of the British Empire, fact.

The map also grossly glossed over the fact that Palestine had ceased to exist from 1948 until 1967, where it magically reappeared as Isreaeli-occupied territories, ignoring the annexation of Gaza by Egypt and the West Bank by Jordan in the previous interlude.

Thank you for clearing those technicalities. Anything else to add on the illegal Israeli expansion over the span of 75 years?

[ati87]

Where have I stated it being colony? It was under the jurisdiction of the British Empire, fact.

The map also grossly glossed over the fact that Palestine had ceased to exist from 1948 until 1967, where it magically reappeared as Isreaeli-occupied territories, ignoring the annexation of Gaza by Egypt and the West Bank by Jordan in the previous interlude.

Well that's on you for using this word in a weird way but the point still stands because your argument still boils down to the same. That the British Empire could do whatever it wanted because they got the administrative power over that region which sounds like a colony to me.

jurisdiction of the British Empire, fact.

This does not mean that the British Empire could do whatever it wanted because that's not how the system of "mandate of" worked, see previous definition. Sure the Western powers probably wanted to place a friendly puppet government but that's another discussion and still does not justify what happend.

Your second point doesn't really make much sense tbh, totally not relevant.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Well that's on you for using this word in a weird way but the point still stands because your argument still boils down to the same. That the British Empire could do whatever it wanted because they got the administrative power over that region which sounds like a colony to me.


This does not mean that the British Empire could do whatever it wanted because that's not how the system of "mandate of" worked, see previous definition. Sure the Western powers probably wanted to place a friendly puppet government but that's another discussion and still does not justify what happend.

Your second point doesn't really make much sense tbh, totally not relevant.

Two governing principles formed the core of the mandate system: non-annexation of the territory and its administration as a "sacred trust of civilisation" to develop the territory for the benefit of its native people. The mandate system differed fundamentally from the protectorate system which preceded it, in that the mandatory power's obligations to the inhabitants of the territory were supervised by a third party: the League of Nations.The mandates were to act as legal instruments containing the internationally agreed-upon terms for administering certain post-World War I territories on behalf of the League of Nations. These were of the nature of a treaty and a constitution, which contained minority-rights clauses that provided for the rights of petition and adjudication by the World Court.

Underlined are the crux of the issue. Local Jews as well as immigrant Jews quite prominently made their case at being "native people", and did manage to be adjudicated a separate state. Notice also that in 1948 the League of Nations was all but defunct.

[Easo]

We have now started arguing about what British Empire could and could not do? I feel like the events of 1917 will be the next stop.
But yes, that map should have had a very different color in 1947, then afterwards until 1967 the Gaza and West Bank also should have been colored differently.

In the meantime Hamas are saying that ceasefire will come soon. Remains to be seen.

[Cringefest]

We have now started arguing about what British Empire could and could not do? I feel like the events of 1917 will be the next stop.
But yes, that map should have had a very different color in 1947, then afterwards until 1967 the Gaza and West Bank also should have been colored differently.

In the meantime Hamas are saying that ceasefire will come soon. Remains to be seen.

I don't think we started talking about that. I think that poster came in with a couple of details, but completely missed the point of the map which is, Israel illegally expanding into land that does not belong to them.

[ati87]

Underlined are the crux of the issue. Local Jews as well as immigrant Jews quite prominently made their case at being "native people", and did manage to be adjudicated a separate state. Notice also that in 1948 the League of Nations was all but defunct.

If you have to go back 2000 years to claim some sort of ownership so that you can kick out those people that are living there for god knows how long your kind of drawing on straws in terms of justification. Should we go back 2500 before the orginale Israelites arrived?

And so by your own logic with a defunct League of Nations the the UK lost any jurisdiction over the area that was until than called Palestina so that kind of makes given away somebodies else land worse.

Regardless of the past though, what's the argument your making? Oh that the map colours aren't faire for Israel or that Israelites conquered the lands couple of thousand years ago and then lost to the Romans that the Palestinians that are currently living there should just pack up?

[Easo]

I don't think we started talking about that. I think that poster came in with a couple of details, but completely missed the point of the map which is, Israel illegally expanding into land that does not belong to them.

Looked like it, though. Because map colors from that picture are definitely modern representation, than what it was back then. We are talking about events until 1967, are we not?
Oh, I don't know. Elegiac, before getting sent to vacation, insinuated a lot more about what land should belong to whom (read, before 1967). Who's to say that others do not think something similar?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I don't think we started talking about that. I think that poster came in with a couple of details, but completely missed the point of the map which is, Israel illegally expanding into land that does not belong to them.

No, as someone versed in history, politics and map making, I am pointing at this map crudely misrepresenting reality to serve a political agenda. The missing colors and stages of that map don't tell the full story, but a reinforced one-sided narrative : a tool of disinformation, all the more effective when it does contain some truth.

The aforementioned map is essentially as politically neutral as the following :

"100 Years of Shrinking Israel"

Here for a more balanced representation from a reputable source :

[Gaidax]

I believe it's a matter of about 2 more days max.

Seems like Hamas' capability to fire random barrages into center cities has diminished somewhat, although not ideal - overall the job is done. I'll give it another 5 years for another round - I hope until then we will complete laser based rocket defense system to supplement Iron Dome.

I bet in a month or two from now odd rockets and incendiary balloons will start trickling down to country's south and govt will be turning a blind eye to it as usual.


I don't expect any considerable changes in this regular cycle, the only real gamechanger will be if we achieve actual 100% rocket defense and not just 90% one - it is possible, but I am not sure it can be done until the inevitable next round of this nonsense.

[Cringefest]

Looked like it, though. Because map colors from that picture are definitely modern representation, than what it was back then. We are talking about events until 1967, are we not?
Oh, I don't know. Elegiac, before getting sent to vacation, insinuated a lot more about what land should belong to whom (read, before 1967). Who's to say that others do not think something similar?

That would be assuming things, and you know, that's silly.

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No, as someone versed in history, politics and map making, I am pointing at this map crudely misrepresenting reality to serve a political agenda. The missing colors and stages of that map don't tell the full story, but a reinforced one-sided narrative : a tool of disinformation, all the more effective when it does contain some truth.

The aforementioned map is essentially as politically neutral as the following :

"100 Years of Shrinking Israel"

Here for a more balanced representation from a reputable source :

That's great thanks for that. Can we keep on talking about the issue at hand here though? As in, the illegal land grabbing, condemned by the whole planet?

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I believe it's a matter of about 2 more days max.

Seems like Hamas' capability to fire random barrages into center cities has diminished somewhat, although not ideal - overall the job is done. I'll give it another 5 years for another round - I hope until then we will complete laser based rocket defense system to supplement Iron Dome.

I bet in a month or two from now odd rockets and incendiary balloons will start trickling down to country's south and govt will be turning a blind eye to it as usual.


I don't expect any considerable changes in this regular cycle, the only real gamechanger will be if we achieve actual 100% rocket defense and not just 90% one - it is possible, but I am not sure it can be done until the inevitable next round of this nonsense.

You could also try and prevent ultra orthodox and extreme right wingers to be part of the policy making process at government level. I bet that's going to do loads in terms of stopping rockets.

[Gaidax]

You could also try and prevent ultra orthodox and extreme right wingers to be part of the policy making process at government level. I bet that's going to do loads in terms of stopping rockets.

I think you don't quite have the grasp of the situation. It has nothing to do with orthodox or extreme right wingers. If country gets attacked by barrage of rockets, that's the end of politics.

It's like the 2008 war, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_W...%E2%80%932009)

Was led by left-wing government, with left-wing PM and left-wing Defense Minister with left-wing Labour party being head of coalition.

BTW, compared to that operation, what's happening now is peanuts.

[Cringefest]

I think you don't quite have the grasp of the situation. It has nothing to do with orthodox or extreme right wingers. If country gets attacked by barrage of rockets, that's the end of politics.

It's like the 2008 war, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_W...%E2%80%932009)

Was led by left-wing government, with left-wing PM and left-wing Defense Minister with left-wing Labour party being head of coalition.

BTW, compared to that operation, what's happening now is peanuts.

Considering this started from the al Aqsa confrontation and the evictions, this has lots to do with it.
Was the Israeli government in 2008 against illegal settlements? Cause the international court of justice found them to be illegal back in 2004.

[Gaidax]

Considering this started from the al Aqsa confrontation and the evictions, this has lots to do with it.
Was the Israeli government in 2008 against illegal settlements? Cause the international court of justice found them to be illegal back in 2004.

Again, all this obfuscation and whataboutism does not matter. The whole "evictions" incident is terribly misrepresented and frankly does not even matter for fuck. The evictions are because those living there did not pay rent to those who actually own the place for more than 3 decades, so tough shit.

But ultimately that does not even matter.

---

The real deal - rockets fired at center/capital? It's war. No matter what government there is, because it's their duty first and foremost to defend the country.

So no point whining. Hamas knew very well what will happen the moment they pulled that trigger with rockets on Jerusalem.

[Cringefest]

Again, all this obfuscation and whataboutism does not matter. The whole "evictions" incident is terribly misrepresented and frankly does not even matter for fuck.

Rockets fired at center/capital? It's war. No matter what government there is, because it's their duty first and foremost to defend the country.

There is no whataboutism. There's a series of events. If people decide to ignore some to better fit their views, that's on them. The reality of things however, stays unchanged.

[Gaidax]

There is no whataboutism. There's a series of events. If people decide to ignore some to better fit their views, that's on them. The reality of things however, stays unchanged.

You don't fire random rockets on a city, because some squatters get evicted for not paying rent for 30 years. Let alone city like Jerusalem.

It's all bunch of bullshit. Hamas knew very well what they are starting, they just probably did not bargain for response being as extensive as it did. I mean, after all, we turned blind eye to random rocket launches to our cities at the south for so long.

/shrug

[Cringefest]

You don't fire random rockets on a city, because some squatters get evicted for not paying rent for 30 years. Let alone city like Jerusalem.

It's all bunch of bullshit. Hamas knew very well what they are starting, they just probably did not bargain for response being as extensive as it did. I mean, after all, we turned blind eye to random rocket launches to our cities at the south for so long.

/shrug

You also don't bomb the shit out of a place like gaza for a couple of handmade rockets. So yeah, usually, reactions are disproportioned when extremism is involved.

[Gaidax]

You also don't bomb the shit out of a place like gaza for a couple of handmade rockets. So yeah, usually, reactions are disproportioned when there is extremism involved.

Couple of "handmade" rockets? Elegiggle...

They literally have frikkin' remotely triggered rocket launch infrastructure right under in the middle of city capable of delivering hundreds of missiles in minutes targeting population centers in Israel.

There is nothing "handmade" there. They have arsenal of 10k+ proper Syrian/Iraninan manufactured rockets they assemble in their factories they can launch ezpz. This "handmade" crap needs to be laid to rest.

I mean, there should be limit to the bullshit really. It's not some random ass dude popping a handheld firecracker there.

[Cringefest]

Couple of "handmade" rockets? Elegiggle...

They literally have frikkin' remotely triggered rocket launch infrastructure right under in the middle of city capable of delivering hundreds of missiles in minutes targeting population centers in Israel.

There is nothing "handmade" there. They have arsenal of 10k+ proper Syrian/Iraninan manufactured rockets they assemble in their factories they can launch ezpz. This "handmade" crap needs to be laid to rest.

I mean, there should be limit to the bullshit really. It's not some random ass dude popping a handheld firecracker there.

So let me get that. The way it works is YOU decide what's worthy of being ignored in the events leading up to the escalation?

How deeply delusional.

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Right wing extremists backed up by police forces stormed the Al Aqsa compound and beat up people at random during a religious event, while the neutrality of Jerusalem was being ignored by ultra orthodox shite and the dude thinks it's "small events".

[Gaidax]

So let me get that. The way it works is YOU decide what's worthy of being ignored in the events leading up to the escalation?

You think that firing random rockets at Jerusalem as response to a legal battle of 30 years that did not go your way is something that can be justified? And then you really think there should not be any response?

Yes, that's a HELL lot bigger escalation than potential eviction of 8 squatter families that did not pay rent for 30 years.

Good thing you're a minority. habibi.

We will finish this in 2 days, then you can go ahead and cry your crocodile tears over Hamas' self inflicted rubble.