How to Improve the Gear Rewards Systems of WoW!

[VinceVega]

But they already hand out gear from a vendor; It's called raiding. And it's not that hard. Having a specific time commitment for playing a game is difficult and I will give you that. But the game in general is not that hard. If you spend time playing the game, you should be able to progress your character no matter what.

You have to armory vet every person in PvP. Why would doing the same in PvE be a problem? And also, is Blizz not adding RIO for M+?

Regarding your last statement.....What I have proposed does not "cater" to people who like to play solo. It doesn't cater to anybody. The plan offers gear progression for everybody no matter what type of content you prefer. Just because someone gains high ilvl gear from world content doesn't mean they are going to join your raid group and smash your epeen on the damage meters. World content gear would be missing the raid set bonus which makes a huge difference. Going forward, ilvl will be what it should be, a number that identifies your power in world content which is in reality the only place in the game where you will genuinely feel power upgrades in the first place.

Why should you get gear for faceroll content?
I agree that PVP needs a seperate stuff so they don't have to do PvE and vice versa.

But why the hell should jonny-two-left-hands get mythic level raiding gear when the most he can accomplish is finish a worldquest and even talking to someone else terrifies him because is is a selfproclaimed "introvert".

I get that pure solo players don't compare themselves to others but prestige is something that every multiplayer has. You cannot just ignore that. Making iLvl completly worthless completly undermines everything gearing related. At that point you can just egt rid of it completly. It has no reason to exist anymore and just became an inconvenience because you have to farm for tens of different sets when you are not a pure dps class.

I seriously don't know where all these "gimme free gear" posts are suddenly coming from. It is the same with when they demanded that "Sekiro" should implement an easy mode.

TLDR: Giving out max iLvL gear for open world stuff destroys what makes gearing in wow fun. Getting BETTER gear. And yes that is a big reason why many players play. Not just that but it is a big part. After that it will be way to easy and has no point anymore.

Blizz should just allow players to create a pure soloworld for those players hosted on their own PCs without any multiplayer where they can give themselves maxgear with console comands. Done. They get their gear and stop demanding handouts and the game gets not wrekced even more.

Edit: And yes i am a bit angry. Sorry if someone feels attacked by this...

[Clash the DK]

You know the moment in TBC where people started to let terrible players call themselves casuals and stopped calling them out really was the moment the community lost control of itself.

From my experience, there are a lot of people who over-estimate how good they are at the game. In reality, there a few really bad players and a few really good players. But most of the playerbase is close together in the middle skill-wise.

[Varaben]

Does the difficulty of world quests also scale up with the gear rewards? Because it seems pretty unfair to ask Mythic+ and raid players do progressively harder content for progressively better rewards, yet casual world questers don't. Maybe I missed that part in the original post, but just gating it behind renown doesn't seem sufficient. I can see allowing this for prior patch cycles. As in, once the next season shows up, world quests then scale up to the prior season between heroic and mythic raiding (e.g. 220). That way if you showed up to the game late, you can catch up or play alts or whatever.

Doesn't there need to be some kind of parity either between time spent or difficulty with the rewards? At some point, maybe 226 ilevel, the world quests are a complete pushover (even at 210), so it can't be much fun to just farm those every day/week with no effort. Sounds like a really boring game to play.

[Clash the DK]

Why should you get gear for faceroll content?
I agree that PVP needs a seperate stuff so they don't have to do PvE and vice versa.

But why the hell should jonny-two-left-hands get mythic level raiding gear when the most he can accomplish is finish a worldquest and even talking to someone else terrifies him because is is a selfproclaimed "introvert".

I get that pure solo players don't compare themselves to others but prestige is something that every multiplayer has. You cannot just ignore that. Making iLvl completly worthless completly undermines everything gearing related. At that point you can just egt rid of it completly. It has no reason to exist anymore and just became an inconvenience because you have to farm for tens of different sets when you are not a pure dps class.

I seriously don't know where all these "gimme free gear" posts are suddenly coming from. It is the same with when they demanded that "Sekiro" should implement an easy mode.

TLDR: Giving out max iLvL gear for open world stuff destroys what makes gearing in wow fun. Getting BETTER gear. And yes that is a big reason why many players play. Not just that but it is a big part. After that it will be way to easy and has no point anymore.

Blizz should just allow players to create a pure soloworld for those players hosted on their own PCs without any multiplayer where they can give themselves maxgear with console comands. Done. They get their gear and stop demanding handouts and the game gets not wrekced even more.

Edit: And yes i am a bit angry. Sorry if someone feels attacked by this...

Character progression and subsequently gear progression is a very important part of playing a MMO. But raiding and other current forms of endgame content are about overcoming challenges. The prestige that you mentioned comes from the content and not the ilvl. I'm not sure why you are conflating the two concepts. Are you saying that you would never Raid or whatever else if you could get top end gear from World Content? And why would one group of people getting a certain type of gear affect how you feel about getting a different type of gear? That doesn't even make sense.

[Daffan]

Profession should be 100% transmog, pets, toys and mounts because nobody cares about gear, and making/buying gear is stupid for casuals because welfare is better within months, not that gear is even needed anyway for anything.

[Varaben]

Character progression and subsequently gear progression is a very important part of playing a MMO. But raiding and other current forms of endgame content are about overcoming challenges. The prestige that you mentioned comes from the content and not the ilvl. I'm not sure why you are conflating the two concepts. Are you saying that you would never Raid or whatever else if you could get top end gear from World Content? And why would one group of people getting a certain type of gear affect how you feel about getting a different type of gear? That doesn't even make sense.

I can't speak for who you quoted, but I'd never raid if I could get gear from world quests that was close enough. People are always going to follow the path of least resistance, which is why a lot of players chose to PVP in early SL. Getting that 1800 rating wasn't that hard back then and the 220 gear was easy money. I dunno about you but the "prestige" of raiding for me went out the door when they introduced 4 tiers of the same raid. Just seems pointless now; I've done it on Normal, why would I waste my time working on heroic to beat the same boss again, but slightly harder? When I can get gear from world quests and pvp way easier - I don't need to schedule a raid or join a guild or anything.

[Clash the DK]

Does the difficulty of world quests also scale up with the gear rewards? Because it seems pretty unfair to ask Mythic+ and raid players do progressively harder content for progressively better rewards, yet casual world questers don't. Maybe I missed that part in the original post, but just gating it behind renown doesn't seem sufficient. I can see allowing this for prior patch cycles. As in, once the next season shows up, world quests then scale up to the prior season between heroic and mythic raiding (e.g. 220). That way if you showed up to the game late, you can catch up or play alts or whatever.

Doesn't there need to be some kind of parity either between time spent or difficulty with the rewards? At some point, maybe 226 ilevel, the world quests are a complete pushover (even at 210), so it can't be much fun to just farm those every day/week with no effort. Sounds like a really boring game to play.

I don't think the difficulty of WQs should scale, because you want to be able to feel power gains within the outside world. I think that's really important. In this scenario, would the Maw be tuned to be harder? I think so. Maybe you have a really rough time there until you gain more gear. As things are right now, not enough people got into the Maw. One reason are the rewards aren't very good and also most casuals top out at 200 ilvl. Meaning it's a pain to quest there anyway.

With this system, everybody would be on a similar path as far as power level goes while in outdoor content. Because of this fact, outdoor content could be tuned to be harder than what we currently experience. And this would apply to every new endgame zone added per patch cycle. This is an important benefit because right now they have to design the new zone so that it is palatable for someone in 226 gear or 200 gear for example.

[Crimson Spears]

From my experience, there are a lot of people who over-estimate how good they are at the game. In reality, there a few really bad players and a few really good players. But most of the playerbase is close together in the middle skill-wise.

Isn't the point, The first cry for welfare and freebies should of been crushed early. All its lead to is ever increasing demands to see numbers pointlessly go up.

[Clash the DK]

Isn't the point, The first cry for welfare and freebies should of been crushed early. All its lead to is ever increasing demands to see numbers pointlessly go up.

In the beginning, they churned through a lot of people trying the game. It took forever to level back then so subs stayed high. But people would get to max level and just quit. As the churn kept lowering they realized only a few stuck around to raid endgame. They simply adjusted their business model and have continued to do so over the years. More casual content is the only way that this game will sustain in the long run. Compromises need to be made.

[Varaben]

I don't think the difficulty of WQs should scale, because you want to be able to feel power gains within the outside world. I think that's really important. In this scenario, would the Maw be tuned to be harder? I think so. Maybe you have a really rough time there until you gain more gear. As things are right now, not enough people got into the Maw. One reason are the rewards aren't very good and also most casuals top out at 200 ilvl. Meaning it's a pain to quest there anyway.

With this system, everybody would be on a similar path as far as power level goes while in outdoor content. Because of this fact, outdoor content could be tuned to be harder than what we currently experience. And this would apply to every new endgame zone added per patch cycle. This is an important benefit because right now they have to design the new zone so that it is palatable for someone in 226 gear or 200 gear for example.

I agree that new zones added should be scaled up, but I still think you have to address the problem of comparing WQ gear progression and raid/m+. Why do they have to push harder and harder content for more gear, but WQ players don't? I just don't think that's ever going to make sense. The point of getting more gear is to tackle harder content right? To be stronger and more able to do more things? You are definitely going to be able to do your WQ faster with more gear, but you're then just cannabalizing your only (limited) source of content.

What other game out there provides increasingly strong gear irrespective of time or effort? In fact, the system outlined would have us do progressively easier content (since the difficulty won't change and you get stronger) to get progressively BETTER gear. I'm not saying there aren't games out there like that, but I am saying those aren't games I'd want to play. They'd get really boring really fast with no challenge.

[Crimson Spears]

In the beginning, they churned through a lot of people trying the game. It took forever to level back then so subs stayed high. But people would get to max level and just quit. As the churn kept lowering they realized only a few stuck around to raid endgame. They simply adjusted their business model and have continued to do so over the years. More casual content is the only way that this game will sustain in the long run. Compromises need to be made.

Rather it die quickly in a blaze of glory then.

The idea that mindless content sells more doesn't really seem to be working out to well to be honest.

[Varaben]

I actually do think they should shift gear progression to WQ, but I think it would mean deleting heroic dungeons and trying to collapse the raid difficulties. Four is just too many. Let's make two raid difficulties and have some gear progression from world quests overlap with mythic dungeons, but only if the difficulty of world quests progresses with you. You can make that only apply to the actual quests that drop gear, so the anima ones or whatever are still easy. That way those "elite" quests are actually a challenge and you get rewarded with gear.

I think the PVE gear progression has gotten away from Blizz; it's a "stove-pipe" solution that just has a ton of little pieces connected together that don't really make sense. Compare it to PVP: where you just literally play rated and unrated games for two different currencies, then you spend on gear. If you get higher in rated you get access to better gear. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's really simple at least.

[Wuusah]

What you’re proposing is basically a “let’s give everyone who logs in a 220+ item”

[Clash the DK]

I agree that new zones added should be scaled up, but I still think you have to address the problem of comparing WQ gear progression and raid/m+. Why do they have to push harder and harder content for more gear, but WQ players don't? I just don't think that's ever going to make sense. The point of getting more gear is to tackle harder content right? To be stronger and more able to do more things? You are definitely going to be able to do your WQ faster with more gear, but you're then just cannabalizing your only (limited) source of content.

What other game out there provides increasingly strong gear irrespective of time or effort? In fact, the system outlined would have us do progressively easier content (since the difficulty won't change and you get stronger) to get progressively BETTER gear. I'm not saying there aren't games out there like that, but I am saying those aren't games I'd want to play. They'd get really boring really fast with no challenge.

Efficiency is strong motivating factor for a lot of players. For example, there are few single player games that I enjoy in which I always win. Never lose. But I still enjoy playing them because they are fun. And in many instances, beating the game in a particular manner is part of the fun.

[MrKnubbles]

As I mentioned before, I already keep 2 man sets (PvE and PvP) plus different accessories for each set. That's not counting the Honor and Covenant gear I have stashed in my bank. But realistically, 3 sets (Raid, Dungeon, PvP) would be the most you would have to keep up with if you want to run all 3 forms of content. I honestly don't see that as being a big determent to this concept considering all of the benefits.

Blizz is already planning on having PvP gear magically drop in ilvl when not PvPing, which is much more confusing IMO. I think that what I am proposing is a much more clean solution.

You may not mind collecting multiple gear sets but that doesn't mean everyone else agrees. Since I don't PvP, I only carry one set. I also don't care about min-maxing minor performance increases in specific scenarios. However, what you're proposing are great power gains for specific content. It just doesn't make much sense to me. I think gear should be gear and your character should get stronger over time across all types of content. If they want player power to increase over time as you participate in that particular content then there are other ways to do that without putting it on gear. They've done this in the past with the talent tree for horrific visions and they're doing it again in Torghast. I'm much more in favor of the latter system since you can see your power increase over time without relying on RNG.

[Crimson Spears]

I actually do think they should shift gear progression to WQ, but I think it would mean deleting heroic dungeons and trying to collapse the raid difficulties. Four is just too many. Let's make two raid difficulties and have some gear progression from world quests overlap with mythic dungeons, but only if the difficulty of world quests progresses with you. You can make that only apply to the actual quests that drop gear, so the anima ones or whatever are still easy. That way those "elite" quests are actually a challenge and you get rewarded with gear.

I think the PVE gear progression has gotten away from Blizz; it's a "stove-pipe" solution that just has a ton of little pieces connected together that don't really make sense. Compare it to PVP: where you just literally play rated and unrated games for two different currencies, then you spend on gear. If you get higher in rated you get access to better gear. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's really simple at least.

Why though?

I would argue world quests should be cut. I can't recall a world quest that offered anything resembling a challenge ever. The system peaked in tbc with netherwing.

What do they offer from a game play perspective beyond click glowing thing and massacre mobs that cant defend themselves even 12 on 1?

[thunderdragon2]

Content would be balanced around the system. For example, the difficulty curve would be more steep from Raid Boss #1 to Raid Boss #8 compared to the current raid structure. Nothing would be trivialized.

People who run say M+ and Raid are already collecting plenty of extra gear. In this case they would just be keeping more that is acquired to complete sets instead of vendoring so much of it because it would more likely be useful.

i really dislike collecting extra unnecessary gear for the content im doing i really don't want to carry 2 sets of gear at a minimum for each toon i want to play this kind of change will only put ppl off playing more than 1 spec or more than 1 part of the game, my main for example has almost 3 bags full of consumables needed for mythic raiding i don't want to have to squeeze in a set of m+ gear also

[Echocho]

Isn't the point, The first cry for welfare and freebies should of been crushed early. All its lead to is ever increasing demands to see numbers pointlessly go up.

If getting more powerful is pointless they should just remove it completely then. Have the content be 100% skill based.

[VinceVega]

Character progression and subsequently gear progression is a very important part of playing a MMO. But raiding and other current forms of endgame content are about overcoming challenges. The prestige that you mentioned comes from the content and not the ilvl. I'm not sure why you are conflating the two concepts. Are you saying that you would never Raid or whatever else if you could get top end gear from World Content? And why would one group of people getting a certain type of gear affect how you feel about getting a different type of gear? That doesn't even make sense.

Prestige that is it.
Raiding is fun. Getting finnaly that better piece after working on it for weeks is fun. It goes hand in hand in wow and always has.
If everyone gets an equally powerful piece of gear from a worldquest raiders/Pvpers/mythic+ players habe nothing to look forward too anymore.

The only reason people run content over and over again is for gear when you cleared your chosen difficulty. Or do you think people like killing the same boss for months on end without a reward?

There is no confalting two concepts when they exist together and one is nothing without the other.
People would clear the raid once or twice and leave. Nothing really to reach anymore except some boring as fuck setboni you already got on a lower difficulty.

Getting loot in Raids/dungeons is a HUGE part of it. Saying otherwise... no...

[Echocho]

Getting finnaly that better piece after working on it for weeks is fun. It goes hand in hand in wow and always has.

Perhaps then you can imagine that other people also think that working for weeks for a piece of gear is also fun, not just those that do mythic raids.

If everyone gets an equally powerful piece of gear from a worldquest raiders/Pvpers/mythic+ players habe nothing to look forward too anymore.

Not true. Other players getting rewards doesn't take away your rewards, at least I hope it doesn't.