"Sorry we are closed nobody wants to work here anymore due to government handouts"

[Shadowferal]

statistics for US are aviable on internet

This is the idiocy prattled by every person that refuses to learn that experience leads to the best understanding of living anywhere.

"well, I read it on the internet..."
Sure, whatever...you just stay in the country of yours...enjoy your socialist protections, free healthcare and education..and keep imagining that you can know different experiences by reading about them.

[kamuimac]

Not only is that not historically how slavery has worked, you're acting as an apologist for the institution of slavery, here.

what exackly is ? that a lot of people willingly accepted status of slaves in exchange for others taking care of their needs/protection ? it was pretty common in ancient times.

if you want to deny it then you need to learn more history .

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This is the idiocy prattled by every person that refuses to learn that experience leads to the best understanding of living anywhere.

"well, I read it on the internet..."
Sure, whatever...you just stay in the country of yours...enjoy your socialist protections, free healthcare and education..and keep imagining that you can know different experiences by reading about them.

so you are gonna now deny statistical data because it doesnt agree with your opinion ? ok sure but this makes discussion with you completly pointless

[segara82]

check what is happening already atm in China - with their "behave like good citizens" programs

thats the string attached that will come with UBI - it will be people deliberately giving up their freedom and puting themselves into positions of slaves .

many people without doubt will do that happily - because they lead boring slave type life already atm . just like hundreds of years ago many people chosen themselves to be put into slavery .

So in order to dispute UBI you bring up a non-UBI as a bad example?
The UBI we are talking about is getting a certain amount of money so that you do not have to run to several different goverment agencies for support, to give you freedom. The chinese SCS is ment as a tool to control their citizens, to punish them for undesireable behaviour and reward them for 'good'.
The set-up AND intend behind the two things is diametrically opposed.

[Endus]

what exackly is ? that a lot of people willingly accepted status of slaves in exchange for others taking care of their needs/protection ? it was pretty common in ancient times.

if you want to deny it then you need to learn more history.

You're confusing debt slavery with some kind of "enslave me daddy" subservience.

It's gross and ahistorical.

[kamuimac]

China doesn't have a UBI.

You're fearmongering about complete fucking nonsense.

they dont have to - but they have mentality that doesnt require UBI to put themselves into that position

in west they have to bribe society somehow - and that bribe will be UB

and its official agenda from world economic forums first admited by Klaus Schwab - read on "you will own nothing and you will be happy "

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You're confusing debt slavery with some kind of "enslave me daddy" subservience.

It's gross and ahistorical.

not debt slavery - but willing slavery .

what is gross about historical facts ? its part of history - ofc you can deny it just like you deny statistical data - but its there unless you start to rewrite history books.

just like subservience of peasants in exchange for lease of land from their overlords which was taking place for hundreds of years.

[Endus]

not debt slavery - but willing slavery .

what is gross about historical facts ? its part of history - ofc you can deny it just like you deny statistical data - but its there unless you start to rewrite history books.

just like subservience of peasants in exchange for lease of land from their overlords which was taking place for hundreds of years.

This isn't history. This is absolute fucking hogwash you're inventing out of nothing.

[szechuan]

they dont have to - but they have mentality that doesnt require UBI to put themselves into that position

in west they have to bribe society somehow - and that bribe will be UB

and its official agenda from world economic forums first admited by Klaus Schwab - read on "you will own nothing and you will be happy "

Ignorant BS.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status...43047082528778

In which Art Laffer, economist to Republicans since Reagan, argues that the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, the less educated, and young people don't deserve $15/h and instead deserve less so that they can eventually earn $15/h because...technology?

[kamuimac]

This isn't history. This is absolute fucking hogwash you're inventing out of nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery

you are free to check the sources in reference for more knowledge on this topic

want more sources ? heres one more

http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdo...le-slaves.html

it would take you literaly few seconds to check it but its easier to just dismiss facts when they dont suit you .

[Endus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery

you are free to check the sources in reference for more knowledge on this topic

Mostly talking about debt slavery. You were talking about people selling themselves so they could be lazy and taken care of by an owner, not out of desperation or need to pay off a debt.

That is what's hogwash.

Hilariously, from your own chosen source;

Jean-Jacques Rousseau contends that in a contract of self-enslavement, there is no mutuality. The slave loses all. The contract negates his interests and his rights. It is entirely to his disadvantage. Since the slave loses his status as a moral agent once the slave contract is enforced, the slave cannot act to enforce anything owed to him by his master.

Your second links to a situation in a brief 60-year period in Ancient Egypt where slaves of one sort (forced labour) were able to escape that into a different from of slavery (temple slavery) by paying a fee. Which, again, not what you were talking about.

Kudos on quoting two sources, neither of which back you up.

[Captain N]

I'm willing to bet we have a few posters here that would agree with this entirely. I could probably even list them...

One of them wouldn't be the guy claiming that Bezos deserves his billions but a $15/hour minimum wage is government oppressing business owners would it?

[kamuimac]

One of them wouldn't be the guy claiming that Bezos deserves his billions but a $15/hour minimum wage is government oppressing business owners would it?

and you claim he doesnt ? every single one of his employees can at any moment leave their jobs and start their own business and make it as big as Amazon. and yet somehow they dont . wonder why .

thats the freedom you all want isnt it ?

[Edge-]

and you claim he doesnt ?

Fuck no, nobody does. That's gross excess in the extreme.

every single one of his employees can at any moment leave their jobs and start their own business and make it as big as Amazon.

They can? Does everyone have parents who can loan them hundreds of thousands to kickstart their company? Or are we still pretending that Bezo's did this all on his own without insane amounts of help and support from friends, family, and coworkers who were instrumental in building the company that he ran over the years.

This whole myth that "the guy on top" is solely responsible for the success of massive companies is really weird to me. It's almost as if employees and other executives and shit don't exist or something and it's just Jeff Bezos, running around his warehouses like The Flash and using his clones to drive orders to your door while he's finding time to run an extensive cloud hosing service etc. etc. etc.

[Captain N]

and you claim he doesnt ? every single one of his employees can at any moment leave their jobs and start their own business and make it as big as Amazon. and yet somehow they dont . wonder why .

thats the freedom you all want isnt it ?

Yeah everyone of those employees has a parent who can hand them hundreds of thousands of dollars and compete with a global company.

When you're ready to leave your cushy little bubble of social programs in Europe and experience the life of the actual working class American I'll be more than happy to book your flight.

[Zan15]

So apparently giving companies worth 2 trillion dollars, 250 billion to play with because....umm....they need it more then unemployed people. Collectively they have profits that exceed 250 billion dollars over the past 5 years not to mention have stock buy backs that are in the hundreds of billions.

They had the money to invest this without taxpayers help.

I am sure the benefit to taxpayers won't be huge prices increase in the next....oh....wait....never mind.



https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/08/sena...-at-china.html

The bill, which passed the chamber 68-32, commits roughly $250 billion in funding for scientific research, subsidies for chipmakers and robot makers, and an overhaul of the National Science Foundation.

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and you claim he doesnt ? every single one of his employees can at any moment leave their jobs and start their own business and make it as big as Amazon. and yet somehow they dont . wonder why .

thats the freedom you all want isnt it ?

Are they going to be guaranteed the same tax breaks? the same subsidies? Part of the new 250 billion dollar tech bill passed? etc etc.


Yah i highly doubt it.

[Elegiac]

and you claim he doesnt ? every single one of his employees can at any moment leave their jobs and start their own business and make it as big as Amazon. and yet somehow they dont . wonder why .

Probably because they can't in fact do that.

The idea of the self-made millionaire is a fantasy, like Santa Claus. "If you're good little boys and girls and work hard and do your chores then maybe Adam Smith will come down the chimney and give you a small loan of a million dollars."

[kamuimac]

Probably because they can't in fact do that.

The idea of the self-made millionaire is a fantasy, like Santa Claus. "If you're good little boys and girls and work hard and do your chores then maybe Adam Smith will come down the chimney and give you a small loan of a million dollars."

and yet everyday new businesses start - many of them succeds . many fail - but still people with ambition try to achieve something in their lives

what you people are doing is finding excuses to defend lazy people . because for some reason you belive that lazy people should be taken care by hard working people who risk a lot why starting their businesses.

[Elegiac]

and yet everyday new businesses start - many of them succeds . many fail - but still people with ambition try to achieve something in their lives

Most fail. And that has fuck all to do with your claim that anyone can make it as big as Amazon, lol.

what you people are doing is finding excuses to defend lazy people

Nah, we're just pointing out the reality that a capitalist economy is zero-sum, and perpetuating the idea that anyone can make it misses the point because not everyone can make it.

because for some reason you belive that lazy people should be taken care

Yes, I happen to believe that being taken care of at a minimum level is a dignity that should be afforded to every human as a matter of right. Because I'm not a sociopath.

[Katchii]

and you claim he doesnt ? every single one of his employees can at any moment leave their jobs and start their own business and make it as big as Amazon.

If you actually believe this, you belong in a mental institution. It is so woefully disconnected from reality, you have to be crazy to believe this.

and yet somehow they dont . wonder why .

Again, fucking CRAZY, if this is an honest question.

thats the freedom you all want isnt it ?

Having the freedom to do try and do something doesn't mean you have the ability or the resources to actually accomplish it.

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and yet everyday new businesses start - many of them succeds . many fail - but still people with ambition try to achieve something in their lives

what you people are doing is finding excuses to defend lazy people . because for some reason you belive that lazy people should be taken care by hard working people who risk a lot why starting their businesses.

Do you own a successful, multi-million dollar company?

[Twdft]

Anyone can make it as big as amazon. But "anyone can" is only a small part of the equation and people cheering the American Dream only ever tell you gotta work hard to achieve. What they never tell is that you can't do it alone and there is a shitload of stuff that has to happen to make it so. Hard work alone never made anyone a millionaire or every shit shoveler would be.