Pay Disparity: Cal Fire vs. Federal

[Rasulis]

Interesting article from Grassroots Wildland Firefighters.

Pay Disparity: Cal Fire vs. Federal - We are asking for equal pay for equal work.

The federal government is the premier wildland firefighting service in the country. It employs the majority of wildland firefighters in the nation, over 10,000 employees, combating wildfires in all 50 states and internationally. In addition, the federal government provides advanced-skill units not offered by state or private entities, such as Hotshot Crews, Smokejumpers, Rappellers, Helitack Crews, and Wildland Fire Modules -- along with the engines and hand crews it staffs at higher levels than its non-federal counterparts. Every major fire in the U.S. relies on federal firefighters and the vital services their specialized crews provide.

All wildland firefighters work hard and put their lives on the line. Cal Fire, private contractors, and municipal fire departments are equal partners in managing our increasingly extreme fire seasons. We respect and value their work; we simply request equal pay for ours.

See for yourself in the graphs below. Considering the pay disparity, it's no surprise that the federal government has a costly retention problem with its wildland fire workforce.

Federal entry level wildland firefighters earn roughly 50% of their Cal Fire counterparts.

Note that the orange (Hazard Pay) and gray (Overtime) are unplannable. The percentage of unplannable income in the Federal Fire Service is much higher (33%) than other wildland firefighting agencies (20%). This unplannable income creates a mental hardship on our workforce, unable to plan for basic needs.

Federal mid-career wildland firefighters earn roughly 50% of a third-year Firefighter 2 with Cal Fire.
Again, we see a large percentage of federal pay (33%) is unplannable, where Cal Fire enjoys a salary that can be planned for, which is critical to ensure the mental health of our workforce.

Retirement for Cal Fire is the number of seasons worked, multiplied by 3% of the average of the highest 3 year salaries earned. This percentage is double what federal fire receives. Combine this with the much higher salary, and it is potentially millions of dollars in additional earnings that Cal Fire will receive than a federal employee in retirement.

Cal Fire - 25 year career ending up at $127,932 - 3% * 25 years * $127,932 = $95,949 salary in retirement at age 50

30 years retired (Age 80) this pensioner has earned $2.88M

Federal Fire - 25 year career ending up at $53,216 - 1.5% * 25 years * $53,216 = $19,956 salary in retirement at age 57 (Mandatory Retirement Age)

30 years retired (Age 87) this federal pensioner has earned $598,680.

The difference in pension benefits here is over 2.28M dollars!

Their Cal Fire numbers are actually low. During fire season between July and October, Cal Fire members regularly make double and triple overtime pay. A study showed that the average overtime pay during those 4 months is in excess of 110k per fire fighter. At captain level, it can go up to 500k.

I was wrong. They intentionally ignored that.

A typical fire assignment consists of 14-days away from home. We did not include travel days for simplicity. Our figures underestimate the disparity because if Cal Fire picks up an extra shift, they are paid 24 hours of overtime pay, where the federal wildland firefighter can typically expect only 8-12 hours of pay for an extra shift.

While a federal employee can get stuck at GS6 levels even though their qualifications may warrant much higher pay, Cal Fire entry level pay for their temporary employees exceeds many management positions in the federal service.

[cubby]

Interesting article from Grassroots Wildland Firefighters.

Pay Disparity: Cal Fire vs. Federal - We are asking for equal pay for equal work.



Their Cal Fire numbers are actually low. During fire season between July and October, Cal Fire members regularly make double and triple overtime pay. A study showed that the average overtime pay during those 4 months is in excess of 110k per fire fighter. At captain level, it can go up to 500k.

I was wrong. They intentionally ignored that.

That's interesting and odd. Why aren't the federal fire peeps getting annual raises? That seems to be where some of the discrepancy is coming from.

[Rasulis]

That's interesting and odd. Why aren't the federal fire peeps getting annual raises? That seems to be where some of the discrepancy is coming from.

I am not an expert in Federal pay grades, but it is my understanding that currently they get 1% scheduled annual raise. Which is below inflation rate. Not sure why Fed's fire fighters pay grade is capped at GS6 either.

[Rasulis]

Y'all gonna regret not treating your firefighters well. Also using prisoners to put out fires is wild, actually pay fire fighters if you need more of them.

Also good luck, why you guys have a holiday which focuses on so much fire during summer is beyond me.

It is specific to Feds Fire Fighter. Cal Fire personnel are compensated generously. The review section of Indeed.com ranked Cal Fire at 4.5. The only complaints were about family live since they are gone 4 months at a time each year.

[StillMcfuu]

Interesting article from Grassroots Wildland Firefighters.

Pay Disparity: Cal Fire vs. Federal - We are asking for equal pay for equal work.



Their Cal Fire numbers are actually low. During fire season between July and October, Cal Fire members regularly make double and triple overtime pay. A study showed that the average overtime pay during those 4 months is in excess of 110k per fire fighter. At captain level, it can go up to 500k.

I was wrong. They intentionally ignored that.

While I don't think the pay will still balance out, I'm sure Fed enjoy other benefits, not to mention they don't necessarily need to live in CA which the CAL Fire would. Just the saving of not paying CA taxes, land cost, housing etc... would be a big chunk of that disparity. I'm also unfamiliar with a federal firefighters lifestyle, they may have other advantages such as free/subsidized food, etc... If a Fed was living in CA, he would also have an adjusted pay scale to account for higher cost of living.

There is a lot of "depth" to federal pay which works out in benefits, I'm not familiar at all with how the fed fire service operates but this article doesn't seem to address any of this either.

Coming from military experience, while there are multiple jobs in a warzone for people who aren't in the military... you absolutely wouldn't want to be there as anyone other than a military member. You get hurt and your long term care may be on you, your resources are limited vs the military which aren't. It's quite possible this situation may play out the same. Having a 30 year career without getting hurt may net you 50% more than your Federal counterpart but it's possible if you did get hurt you'd be paying out of pocket, especially later on down the road, where the federal worker would never pay a cent.

[Spectral]

What's the disparity relative to other states? It kind of stands out that they chose a state that's notorious for high compensation as the reference point.

[Rasulis]

What's the disparity relative to other states? It kind of stands out that they chose a state that's notorious for high compensation as the reference point.

Not sure. However, Cal Fire is the only state firefighting agency with comparable number of wildfire firefighters to the US Forest Service (8,000 vs. 10,000). Also CA is the only state with a full complement of their own Hotshot Crews, Smokejumpers, Rappellers, Helitack Crews, Wildland Fire Modules, and fire fighting aircraft fleet.

[cubby]

While I don't think the pay will still balance out, I'm sure Fed enjoy other benefits, not to mention they don't necessarily need to live in CA which the CAL Fire would. Just the saving of not paying CA taxes, land cost, housing etc... would be a big chunk of that disparity. I'm also unfamiliar with a federal firefighters lifestyle, they may have other advantages such as free/subsidized food, etc... If a Fed was living in CA, he would also have an adjusted pay scale to account for higher cost of living.

There is a lot of "depth" to federal pay which works out in benefits, I'm not familiar at all with how the fed fire service operates but this article doesn't seem to address any of this either.

Coming from military experience, while there are multiple jobs in a warzone for people who aren't in the military... you absolutely wouldn't want to be there as anyone other than a military member. You get hurt and your long term care may be on you, your resources are limited vs the military which aren't. It's quite possible this situation may play out the same. Having a 30 year career without getting hurt may net you 50% more than your Federal counterpart but it's possible if you did get hurt you'd be paying out of pocket, especially later on down the road, where the federal worker would never pay a cent.

But the majority of those benefits, such as government health care, pension, additional compensations for location, are pretty much matched by CA - and in some cases exceed the Feds. Most people don't know this (especially outside of CA) but if you work for CA govt you get lifetime healthcare benefits even after retirement (in some cases that kicks in after only five years).

I hear what you're saying - I really do, and you make good points about the ancillary benefits of Federal work - and they are aplenty. But here I think CA might very well compete with that. I will, however, be the first to admit I do not know how all the benefits of CA vs Fed compare, line by line. But holy shit, that pay difference is nuts.

[Bakis]

I read today that Biden wanted to increase the minimum pay to 15$ (excluding hazard and overtime) and my first thoguth was "you said 13 is ridiculous low? So is 15.

Edit: clarification compared to non-federal employees.

[Rasulis]

But the majority of those benefits, such as government health care, pension, additional compensations for location, are pretty much matched by CA - and in some cases exceed the Feds. Most people don't know this (especially outside of CA) but if you work for CA govt you get lifetime healthcare benefits even after retirement (in some cases that kicks in after only five years).

I hear what you're saying - I really do, and you make good points about the ancillary benefits of Federal work - and they are aplenty. But here I think CA might very well compete with that. I will, however, be the first to admit I do not know how all the benefits of CA vs Fed compare, line by line. But holy shit, that pay difference is nuts.

Turned out the pay discrepancy goes well beyond the base pay.

Unlike Cal Fire firefighters, the “hazardous” classification and its associated higher pay for Federal wildland firefighters apply only to officially designated incidents, not to prescribed burns, fuel reduction operations, or training exercises.

When they’re not on fires, many firefighters are required to remain within a two-hour “call-back” radius of their station and be ready to report to duty at any time. Whereas Cal Fire firefighters are paid on-call wage and travel time, their Federal counterpart do not.

On wildland incidents, Cal Fire and many other agencies are paid using a ‘“portal-to-portal” system. From the moment they leave their station’s door to the moment they return, they are being paid, 24/7. Which included rest time at base camps. Federal firefighters, on the other hand, are off the clock and unpaid between shifts, though they remain on-site at the fire for the duration of their assignments.

- - - Updated - - -

I read today that Biden wanted to increase the minimum pay to 15$ (excluding hazard and overtime) and my first thoguth was "you said 13 is ridiculous low? So is 15.

Edit: clarification compared to non-federal employees.

The fact that individuals with a decade of wildfire fighting experience, the accumulation of dozens of specialized skills, and consistently risking life and health only merit an hourly pay rate comparable to a senior barista at Starbucks is disgusting.

[Bakis]

The fact that individuals with a decade of wildfire fighting experience, the accumulation of dozens of specialized skills, and consistently risking life and health only merit an hourly pay rate comparable to a senior barista at Starbucks is disgusting.

The same issue we got in Sweden in regard to Covid and nurses. Its what an American would say federal, semi-low pay ontop of emergency hours.
Just a fat sandwhich of shit coming to bite us in the end.