Holy Priest some talent questions (Apotheosis/Salvation really)

[Mickb]

So I’m mainly doing some M+ with the limited amount of time I have to play this game these days and have a few questions. I”m relatively new to this (after 10 years away) and for example this week was my first ever experience of quaking. I found this tough during certain extremely movement heavy fights where you are dodging stuff, trying to cast a heal or flash heal to maintain the FC legendary stacks, you get quaking, it throws you out of rhythm etc. Some of this is me just developing and learning but it made me reflect on some talent choices as I try to push to get the +15 achievement.

First 5 rows are sort of cookie cutter with the FC legendary so I’m relying on trail of light/surge of light as you would expect and I’m using the resonant words conduit.

Row 6....I’ve been relying on benediction as I tested DS briefly and found it was hard to get value from it because the travel path is so narrow. I found lining it up was one more positional computation I didn’t need. But if Benediction procs on a target that already has a renew on it, does it just overwrite the existing on or is it additional?

Row 7......the big one really. I’ve been running apotheosis as practically every guide suggests its the go-to for dungeons, but generally I’m finding that situations where I can benefit from it are not really an issue anyway. Like if I’m able to stand and chain cast my normal rotation works absolutely fine to pump heals and I don’t need Apotheosis. But yesterday for example, running HOA on a +11, tank got some awkward positioning of glass shards, one or two dps managed to get murdered then refracted sunlight hits and we get a quaking. Trying to navigate it made casting practically impossible and I was just thinking that Salvation would really come in handy right now. A single cast that gets hots on everyone immediately and all the POM bounces would be perfect. Appreciate this is situational, but theres quite a few boss fights in tight spaces where I can see value in it.

Anyone more experienced ever running Salvation in dungeons or......should I just practice more?

[Thzz]

the only time I've heard of salv in dungeons is when someone accidently showed up with it.

Apoth without question. just for the reset of serenity and sant if nothing else. Seren H Sanct H apoth .... Seren H Sanct H is a ridiculous amount of healing.

If your group cannot get through just about anything with those heals coming out then I would think there are other non-healer issues in your group. for your example above, just bad luck / hiccup on part of tank.

Would you really want to give up the frequently used power of Apoth for those rare occasions when ya maybe Salv saves a single wipe.

[Gestopft]

Row 6....I’ve been relying on benediction as I tested DS briefly and found it was hard to get value from it because the travel path is so narrow. I found lining it up was one more positional computation I didn’t need. But if Benediction procs on a target that already has a renew on it, does it just overwrite the existing on or is it additional?

It overwrites; it's like casting a new Renew on the target. But it is entirely passive, and usually you won't be using Renew THAT much, so you shouldn't be overwriting it frequently enough that the talent loses too much value. DS is an ok way to add some AoE damage, but I'll admit that it doesn't feel very impactful from a healing standpoint.

Row 7......the big one really. I’ve been running apotheosis as practically every guide suggests its the go-to for dungeons, but generally I’m finding that situations where I can benefit from it are not really an issue anyway. Like if I’m able to stand and chain cast my normal rotation works absolutely fine to pump heals and I don’t need Apotheosis. But yesterday for example, running HOA on a +11, tank got some awkward positioning of glass shards, one or two dps managed to get murdered then refracted sunlight hits and we get a quaking. Trying to navigate it made casting practically impossible and I was just thinking that Salvation would really come in handy right now. A single cast that gets hots on everyone immediately and all the POM bounces would be perfect. Appreciate this is situational, but theres quite a few boss fights in tight spaces where I can see value in it.

1) Keep in mind that Salv gets the most value when the whole group is continually taking damage; I don't think it would've done particularly well in that situation since most of the damage in that fight is a) avoidable, and b) comes in really fast when it isn't avoided. I'm not sure the damage pattern for that fight fits with Salv (Salv would fit better on the last boss than on the first, but I don't think it would be very good there either), and in fact I think Apotheosis would be much better for that fight due to the CDR of Serenity (instant cast nuke and you can save a DPS that has to run through the glass). Salv is a strong raid CD for periods of extended raid-wide damage (since the PoMs and Renews do much more healing than the initial heal). It's something you plan in advance. However, it is not a great "oh shit" button.

2) Salvation also has a lot overlap with Divine Hymn; i.e continual healing on the whole group. One of the reasons to take Apotheosis is that it has greater versatility than just "reverse large amounts of group-wide damage." You can use it do a lot of group healing (assuming people are stacked up enough) but you can also use it to pump single-target heals when the tank, or maybe the tank and one of the DPS is taking large amounts of damage. Bosses like Oryphrion or General Kaal where you have significant damage coming in on two or three players at a time, but not necessarily the whole group, for example.

3) Remember that there is a critical difference between Salvation in a raid versus in a dungeon- the number of people that get hit by it. It's really strong in a raid where you can heal/HoT 20 players- but in a dungeon where you only hit five...it loses a lot of power.

[Gestopft]

how would salv even be useful on the last boss?

Sustained damage on four players (unless you have someone soaking multiple) means you'd at least get most of the benefits of the Renews and PoMs, because in a 5-person group the initial healing of Salv isn't much more than a CoH. The damage pattern of the fight fits the CD- but with it only affecting four players, it would still be really weak. Mostly it was a comparison to the first boss, where the damage pattern doesn't fit Salv at all, but in either situation, Apotheosis is still waaaay better. I'll update my first post though.

[Gestopft]

???

sustained damage on four players? only 2 players should be soaking... it's straight up not healable if 4 people are taking damage unless it's on a low key... it's like 40k damage every second if 4 people are soaking it... no healer does 40k hps...

...do you not get hit twice as hard if you soak two? (not counting DR or immunities ofc)

[Gestopft]

nope... you only take damage from one beam...

Ok, legit did not know that...doesn't seem intended lol. But this is far afield from the topic. Even if you had four players taking damage i.e a lower key, Salv is still worse than Apotheosis.

[Mickb]

???

sustained damage on four players? only 2 players should be soaking... it's straight up not healable if 4 people are taking damage unless it's on a low key... it's like 40k damage every second if 4 people are soaking it... no healer does 40k hps...

Do you mean only 2 beams need to be soaked or only 2 players take 2 beams each?

[Thzz]

lets be clear.

never salvation in dungeons. just never ever.