Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Malania]

This thread has been done to death and thanks to the the Lich King has been resurrected when it didn't need to be.

The general consensus on the thread was we couldn't reach a consensus since nobody agreed on what pay to win actually was for WoW.

Further discussion is moot since we can't even agree on the basics -.- Let dead threads RIP.

[Lochton]

This thread has been done to death and thanks to the the Lich King has been resurrected when it didn't need to be.

The general consensus on the thread was we couldn't reach a consensus since nobody agreed on what pay to win actually was for WoW.

Further discussion is moot since we can't even agree on the basics -.- Let dead threads RIP.

One came with the closest to a conclusion, honestly. The point after that is acceptance.

If a football team has one violent player, you say "that player is violent". If a football team has 9 violent players, you are far, far more likely to say "that team is violent".

I apply the same logic with games - if it has 1 or 2 minor systems that grant an advantage to those paying, I will say "that feature is clearly p2w", while if a game is based around countless p2w features, and the business model is based around those features, I am far, far more likely to say "that game is p2w".

Don't mind if you disagree, I understand your pov as well.

[Good ol Stroggylos]

I do not understand what we talking about.
If we are discussing about definitions, semantics and linguistics then the q is up to debate.
In reality wow is p2w since introduction of the token when money to gold and vice versa transactions were legalised and advertised.
109 pgs lulz

[Lochton]

I do not understand what we talking about.
If we are discussing about definitions, semantics and linguistics then the q is up to debate.
In reality wow is p2w since introduction of the token when money to gold and vice versa transactions were legalised and advertised.
109 pgs lulz

So, what you're saying is, it's been P2W since TCG was launched in 2006?

[Orby]

Calling it pay to advance is just a method to avoid calling the game pay to win.

Well what is paying to win in an MMO like WOW? for me its having all the best gear and everything completed. all something like the boost does is get you closer to the max level, its not winning. Its an advantage because it gets you closer to that point without actually getting you to that point. But I guess its whatever you consider a 'win'/

For me if the game gives you all the best gear, all reputations completed and your character maxxed on everything. Then that's a win. woW isnt there.. yet :P

[Schmittay]

Did you mean to prove that WoW is not pay-to-win because any advantage of paying real-cash is indistinguishable from what people can do just playing the game?

Yeh oops, they really just did. Yet they are still conflating two completely separately things and somehow it proves their point. I'll let them believe what they want, lol.

It's hilariously sad.

[Chumahki]

defend the game at all costs.

I wasn't defending shit. OP asked a question, I answered. WoW is categorically NOT P2W.

And I don't know what fanaticism you're talking about. I'll play a game with a sub, no problem, but I will not play a F2P/P2W game. No thanks, I'll play WoW instead.

[Razorice]

I just paid 2.5k USD for Sylvannas Mythic and Full Gear run.

Is it pay 2 win?

[Lolites]

Many mobile games that are pay to win don't sell or facilitate the selling of actual items of power. The sell or facilitate the sale of currency. Like gold in wow.

you are wrong...
many mobile games sell currency, that is true, BUT, not like gold in wow, DIFFERENT currency that cant be obtained ingame (or can be in terribly low amounts)
gold is incredibly easy to get...

[QuiksLE]

I just paid 2.5k USD for Sylvannas Mythic and Full Gear run.

Is it pay 2 win?

And what exactly did you win?

[Razorice]

And what exactly did you win?

Boss kill and a ton of high gear.

[Lolites]

You do realize carry groups have you DIE at the start of the fight as to not impede their ability to carry right?

cant speak for everyone but when i used to boost we did this only on bosses where person could fuck up badly and we couldnt do anything about that, usualy we let the "boosties" play

- - - Updated - - -

You can buy weekly boosts until you're full BiS. Cost prohibitive? Depends on who you ask. Doesn't mean you can't buy the best gear.

eh... vault is still random, so it would take fuckload of time and boosting to get full bis...
and you cant get it faster than someone who doesnt get boosted but just plays

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard aren't selling boosts, players are.

and they did since vanila, but somehow, since token its different, bcs blizzard get their cut on some of those transactions... even though literaly only change is Blizz gets its cut (from SOME of the transactions, 3rd party websites still exist)

[Kralljin]

cant speak for everyone but when i used to boost we did this only on bosses where person could fuck up badly and we couldnt do anything about that, usualy we let the "boosties" play

That depends entirely on the boss.
If the boosted guy can just play without fucking anything up, it's fair game, if they can fuck up a certain mechanic, they gotta die.

Example: Mythic Azshara, you don't want that the guy you're boosting gets targeted by the Spear in P3 (which was used to break the shields).

On the more challenging encounters nowadays, it's usually safer for those people to die because those encounters quite often feature one of those mechanics where one guy can screw the entire raid.

[Lolites]

pre-token era boost was rare to none

well thats outright lie, and if you did play back then you have to know that

most ppl didn't even care to get gold

and they didnt need to, they bought boost for real money straight, without any gold involved...

[TheLucky1]

Indeed, but boosting has been an issue since Vanilla, heck, so has the purchase of currency.

In this deep and boorish conversation of it being P2W or not, the only thing I can directly, yet lamely so, agree with - is the store boost, but only barely. You aren't winning anything, you can't catch up on current content with it, nor reach the same level as others right off the bat. You just pay to be able to play the current content, an option that has become so common in MMORPGs that a majority of the providers have them.

Even though we will probably never know without hard numbers i disagree.

The growth, almost professionalization of boosting services and communities must have a heavy correlation with the WoW token (that's just logical, you can do more with earned gold and buyers get it easier and safer).

I still remember times (i think early Legion and before that) where the trade channel wasn't just flooded with boost advert spam that are often either bots or paid advertisers on every single server, even the lower population ones.

Of the 3 mmorpgs i have sunk a bit more time into WoW is the only one i can recall with this severity I'd almost call boosting culture and it is this severity I can barely tolerate.

So I'm pretty much just rephrasing madseason here but he hit the nail on the head, it is so easy, convenient and safe to just credit card your way to any item or achievement in this game and it has gotten so common in the last few years that I literally check wclog parses before inviting players to pugs. (Which i find insane but almost necessary, duds with aotc/ksm 1/2 all boss kills but complete gray log parses are weekly occurrences.)

[Spicymemer]

Since gold can be purchased with real money, WoW is pay 2 win.
I can walk up to any guild, offer them gold and get ahead of the curve / cutting edge.

[Lolites]

Im not particularly surprised that you would defend the game at all costs. This level of fanaticism is the reason a calm and level headed discussion about the game is almost impossible

right, bcs the opposite side on which you seem to be - shit on game at any cost, and if there is no good reason just make up some - is totaly not fanaticism, and makes the discusion soooo level headed and objective...

[Dhrizzle]

Since gold can be purchased with real money, WoW is pay 2 win.
I can walk up to any guild, offer them gold and get ahead of the curve / cutting edge.

You can do the same using gold earned entirely in game, by having friends in the guild or being good at playing.

[potis]

You can do the same using gold earned entirely in game, by having friends in the guild or being good at playing.

You are wasting your calories by typing, these guys are clueless and defaulted opinions that everything is P2W, because WoW apparently has a win nowdays

[Kralljin]

You can do the same using gold earned entirely in game, by having friends in the guild or being good at playing.

>Be good at a certain aspect of the game (goldmaking)
>Trade your completely within the game acquired currency for an ingame service

I don't see the problem, it's a virtual economy after all, players providing services is completely legitimate.
If you can make millions of gold within WoW farming or just playing the AH, that's cool, most players are unable to do that.

After all, most people in thread aren't saying that boosts are the problem, but rather players being allowed to purchase gold without any fear of repercussions fuels this boosting market.

If friends choose to carry you that's their choice, i somehow doubt that guilds will suddenly now boosts everybody because they feel like it.

And if you're good at playing...you're not being boosted at all, you carry your weight, you play the game in its intended fashion.