TBC Phase 1 Loot Priorities

[AeneasBK]

Hi everybody,

During Classic I'm sure many different systems for loot distribution were used by all the various guilds. We used EP/GP but alongside it a "Priority" system to ensure 'rare' or 'super OP' loot went to the classes that could make the best use of it. This was to prevent things like "Onslaught Girdle" from Ragnaros going to a Retribution Paladin over a Fury Warrior, or Neltharions Tear going to a Boomkin over a Mage.

I don't really want to get too bogged down in whether it's a good system or not, it is what it is.

They are going to use a similar system going into TBC, and in order to help out I was going to try and research which items in Phase 1 of TBC any of you guys feel will be highly sought after, for any class or spec. EG. Dragonspine Trophy from Gruul is going to be in high demand, but which melee class (/hunters) will actually be making best use of the trinket, or is the difference too small to matter? How do the healers stat priorities differ - Holy Paladins I imagine are going to be all about that spell crit, but is that as much use to a tree druid, and should any loot priorities reflect that.

Again, don't wanna get too caught up in whether a priority system is *needed* for TBC, I just want to make sure that when the expac launches the priorities they will have selected are going to make sense to everyone. So regardless of what you're playing, if there's a drop from Phase 1 that you're looking forward to, and know that other players of X class/spec will be competing with you for it, I'd love to hear any and all arguments as to why it is better for your spec or theirs.

Sorry the question is so broad, I'm not particularly loot orientated in Classic so I'm trying to ask a question I don't really care for, but I know that a lot of players *are* concerned about loot, and TBC has plenty of tasty items; and as such the officer team in the guild I'm in are keen to have the system make sense. Why give an amazing spell haste trinket to a class that makes no use of spell haste just because they had higher PR, kinda thing...

Appreciate all your thoughts on the matter, although "You shouldn't use a priority system, it's unnecessary" is moot :S

Contested Items So Far...


-Skulkers Greaves (SV Hunter > Rogue)

-Dragonspine Trophy

-Lightning Capacitor (Shaman/Arcane>Others)

-First t4 2-set bonus (Feral/Resto/Enhance > Others)

-First t4 4-set bonus (Feral > Others)

EDIT: If you just wanna direct me to any pre-existing resources on the topic I'd be happy to do the homework myself. Going through 20+ pages on WoWheads "BiS lists" and trying to work out from that where the item overlap is seems like wasted effort simply because plenty of people seemed to dispute the accuracy of the WoWhead BiS lists.

[kubuntu]

Personaly i think excesive loot priorities can back fire at your guild easy in p1 tbc

Raids like Kara or Gruul are perfectly pugable so making rules like Dragonspine Trophy go to Hunters first will make all your melee question if they woud rather pug t4 then raid with you

I say that too hard priorities unlike vanilla can back fire at your guild in tbc if everyone is not100% on board

[Cracked]

Dear god, some people really enjoy micromanaging the shit out of their guild mates. If there's one thing we learned from classic it's that it literally makes no difference as to who gets loot first.

[Nite92]

Personaly i think excesive loot priorities can back fire at your guild easy in p1 tbc

Raids like Kara or Gruul are perfectly pugable so making rules like Dragonspine Trophy go to Hunters first will make all your melee question if they woud rather pug t4 then raid with you

I say that too hard priorities unlike vanilla can back fire at your guild in tbc if everyone is not100% on board

If someone rather pugs because hunters get prio on DST, then be my fuckin guest and leave. All that this shows is, that the person leaving has no idea how the game works, and I'd rather have someone else instead of him.

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Dear god, some people really enjoy micromanaging the shit out of their guild mates. If there's one thing we learned from classic it's that it literally makes no difference as to who gets loot first.

I live in a different world than most of you guys here. If I get an item via PL, which has the same ilvl as my current item and is a 0.2% upgrade, I'd gladly trade it to a person that gets way more out of it. Why would I want an item over someone who needs it more than me. (in a guild environment)

[Cracked]

If someone rather pugs because hunters get prio on DST, then be my fuckin guest and leave. All that this shows is, that the person leaving has no idea how the game works, and I'd rather have someone else instead of him.

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I live in a different world than most of you guys here. If I get an item via PL, which has the same ilvl as my current item and is a 0.2% upgrade, I'd gladly trade it to a person that gets way more out of it. Why would I want an item over someone who needs it more than me. (in a guild environment)

So explain to me, how does it work? I'd fucking leave in a heartbeat.

[Kralljin]

One of the items from the top of my head is the Lightning Capacitator.

Lightning Capacitator is something i'd give Ele / Mage prio, because both keep them until T5 / T6.
Elemental has a shorter baseline cast time than any caster (LB is 2.0 / CL 1.5) and as Overloads can crit, also give a charge.
For Arcane it's good because it works with Arcane Missiles, for the other classes.

Other casters also desperately need hit, thus the Scryer Bloodgem is very relevant to them, whereas Ele / Arcane need barely any hit on their gear, Quagmirrans eye is also a solid trinket for other caster.
Elemental also has no decent caster trinket in T5 (unlike Mage), so they really get a lot of it.

[A Blue Smurf]

If someone rather pugs because hunters get prio on DST, then be my fuckin guest and leave. All that this shows is, that the person leaving has no idea how the game works, and I'd rather have someone else instead of him.

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I live in a different world than most of you guys here. If I get an item via PL, which has the same ilvl as my current item and is a 0.2% upgrade, I'd gladly trade it to a person that gets way more out of it. Why would I want an item over someone who needs it more than me. (in a guild environment)

And that is the everything wrong with the game community in retail. The dictating of when, where and how people should play.
If I'm in a guild and its running EDGP and I have the most points when whatever the fuck drops for my main spec, I should get that item because I earnt that item through my participation. Just because joecuntsticks might get a bigger boost from it doesn't entitle him to it if he hasn't contributed more to that guild through his participation that I have. The entire reason such systems exist to reward people for contributing to the group; not penalize them for not having rolled the latest FOTM min/max class+spec.

[Gratlim]

Dear god, some people really enjoy micromanaging the shit out of their guild mates. If there's one thing we learned from classic it's that it literally makes no difference as to who gets loot first.

I agree. And as a side note i saw 2 guilds imploding because of Officers / GM running exactly the same loot system as OP describe, actually exploiting the c**p out of it to gear first themselves finding pretexts. One disbanded completely. The last one saw the GM kicking almost everyone when he realized he could get everything by running GDKP only from P6.
That is why priority list on top of a fair system like EP/GP is terrible. Because at some point, when those big ticket items drop, you see your Boomkin with 100% raid attendance during 1 year loose Tear to a mage who joined the guild 2 weeks prior. It is just terrible. There is absolutely no respect for your members.

You either do EP/GP or loot council. Not both. Just my opinion though.

[Okacz]

And that is the everything wrong with the game community in retail. The dictating of when, where and how people should play.
If I'm in a guild and its running EDGP and I have the most points when whatever the fuck drops for my main spec, I should get that item because I earnt that item through my participation. Just because joecuntsticks might get a bigger boost from it doesn't entitle him to it if he hasn't contributed more to that guild through his participation that I have. The entire reason such systems exist to reward people for contributing to the group; not penalize them for not having rolled the latest FOTM min/max class+spec.

Depends on guild mentality. If progression is very important, you'd rather speed it up by distributing upgrades evenly. Afterwards, after the raid is on farm (which comes quicker because with right upgrades your group nukes it down), everyone else is getting even more items to distribute among them. Everyone wins.

That's on paper tho. Realistically, 99% of the playerbase very much dislike the feeling of not given a fair chance of participating in rolls. If a Warrior who busted his ass raiding in a guild throughout Classic is supposed to be passing on upgrades to hunters now because of a 7 DPS difference he might start questioning his guild choices.

[DylxnTV]

That is why priority list on top of a fair system like EP/GP is terrible. Because at some point, when those big ticket items drop, you see your Boomkin with 100% raid attendance during 1 year loose Tear to a mage who joined the guild 2 weeks prior. It is just terrible. There is absolutely no respect for your members.

That's where the common sense kicks in though. If it was a Mage with, say... 6 months (not two weeks - that would be a dumb example of a way to royall miff your raiders) 100% raid attendance vs the 1 year Boomkin.. Question if you trust the Mage to still be around and be as loyal as the Boomkin.
It's a fair system and if everyone was onboard with the rules from the start (which they probably would have been notified of and fully behind, given that these loot distribution tactics are often employed by those wanting to push harder and faster than other guilds), then everyone should be happy.
You could even ask the Boomkin if he would mind passing to the Mage for the benefit of the guild.

Loot to me is a means to gain power as a raid team. I don't care if I have full BiS... If the items are better on another players character and it helps my guild push ranks/progress faster, then I'm all for that. My character can't do it alone. It's a team effort and distribution of this manner is better for the team. You're either with us or against us. Imho it's selfish to hoard loot just because you've been there longer when it's clearly better for the raid if it's given elsewhere.

[Nite92]

So explain to me, how does it work? I'd fucking leave in a heartbeat.

You'd leave because certain classes have priority on some items?

How can you not get it?
In a pug the loot rules are just not optimized. Let's say the chest tier token drops. This tier token is BiS for 3 players, but an upgrade for 7 players. In a guild, the choice would be between those 3, in a pug all 7 would roll. So it is much harder to get your best items. Also, since the discussion started with DST. In a guild let's say 7 people need it. So eventually (even if you are the last person), you will get it. And now calculate your how high the chance is to get an item with a 1/7 chance in 7 drops (spoiler, it is pretty far away from 100%). And yes this number might go down and in p3, it might be 1/4, but it is still strictly worse than being in a guild.

[Cracked]

You'd leave because certain classes have priority on some items?

How can you not get it?
In a pug the loot rules are just not optimized. Let's say the chest tier token drops. This tier token is BiS for 3 players, but an upgrade for 7 players. In a guild, the choice would be between those 3, in a pug all 7 would roll. So it is much harder to get your best items. Also, since the discussion started with DST. In a guild let's say 7 people need it. So eventually (even if you are the last person), you will get it. And now calculate your how high the chance is to get an item with a 1/7 chance in 7 drops (spoiler, it is pretty far away from 100%). And yes this number might go down and in p3, it might be 1/4, but it is still strictly worse than being in a guild.

If there was a meaningful challenge that this scheme would allow us to overcome, yes. However, in Classic/TBC Classic, it's not gear gatekeeping you from killing bosses. I'm not passing literal BiS until end of TBC to some doofus because he happily fotm rerolled hunter because he saw it was #1 dps in TBC.

[Prag]

I’m playing SV and the only items I think will be in high demand are Skulkers Greaves and DST.

By the numbers, my EW plus pDPS would put SV at a high priority: higher haste = higher eWS = higher EW uptime = higher rDPS. However, the trinket will last most of the classes adding it for a long time and BM gives their party FI. Haven’t seen a sim releases for Hunters so I’m hoping it’s done before I start prio’ing for our LC guild.

[AeneasBK]

I say that too hard priorities unlike vanilla can back fire at your guild in tbc if everyone is not100% on board

For what it is worth I 100% agree with you, but I'm not running this guild and I honestly don't give a crap (I get all the loot I want because I turn up every week, you don't have to do much more than that usually) I'm just trying to help out the officers a bit

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One of the items from the top of my head is the Lightning Capacitator.

We had a mage leave our guild because a lock got that back in TBC 15 years ago or however long it was, at the time we were literally jsut doing a /roll system Ahhh the bliss of ignorance xD

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If I'm in a guild and its running EDGP and I have the most points when whatever the fuck drops for my main spec, I should get that item because I earnt that item through my participation..

Precisely my argument to them

I’m playing SV and the only items I think will be in high demand are Skulkers Greaves and DST.

Thank you, Skulkers Greaves came up in the discussion as a Leather item every hunter will want to take, and it is items like that that I wanna hear about, so I can present them as issues to resolve. I have absolutely no clue about any caster DPS competitions, or Healer competitions though

Also thanks to people for replies, I wasn't sure if I'd get a string of "We're not here to do your homework for you" responses :P

[kranur]

The only priority should be not give super items to trials and such. Otherwise let the people build their damn characters.

[holywhiskers]

Your 1 token Rogue will nod and smile getting passed over for all loot until BT rolls around and they get to cash in on Warglaives.

[Cracked]

Your 1 token Rogue will nod and smile getting passed over for all loot until BT rolls around and they get to cash in on Warglaives.

They will nod and smile and then explode in rage when warglaives go to a warrior anyway. The real loot council experience.

[Nite92]

And that is the everything wrong with the game community in retail. The dictating of when, where and how people should play.
If I'm in a guild and its running EDGP and I have the most points when whatever the fuck drops for my main spec, I should get that item because I earnt that item through my participation. Just because joecuntsticks might get a bigger boost from it doesn't entitle him to it if he hasn't contributed more to that guild through his participation that I have. The entire reason such systems exist to reward people for contributing to the group; not penalize them for not having rolled the latest FOTM min/max class+spec.

Well, we disagree here. I want the team to get stronger, you want purples for yourself. Both are valid approaches to the game.
But, your wording makes it seem that loot is handled unfair in better guilds, and people get screwed over, just like the trials getting no loot thing. If you are actually in a good guild, there is rarely loot drama, that problem exists mostly in casual guilds.

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If there was a meaningful challenge that this scheme would allow us to overcome, yes. However, in Classic/TBC Classic, it's not gear gatekeeping you from killing bosses. I'm not passing literal BiS until end of TBC to some doofus because he happily fotm rerolled hunter because he saw it was #1 dps in TBC.

But it is not a scheme. Some people want to get purples themselves, some want the team to get stronger. Guess in which guild there is less loot drama. And that is the guild I enjoy to play in.

[Kralljin]

They will nod and smile and then explode in rage when warglaives go to a warrior anyway. The real loot council experience.

Correction: When your RL that has mained Hunter until T6 decides to reroll rogue.

[Cracked]

But it is not a scheme. Some people want to get purples themselves, some want the team to get stronger. Guess in which guild there is less loot drama. And that is the guild I enjoy to play in.

Scheme is not a negative word, it's just another word for strategy or system. Either way the team gets stronger. I've played with both and I've played with both where there was no loot drama. I've gotten a few world first where it's a no-brainer to trade loot for 0.02% of performance. I've played in casual guilds where the potential social disruption over 2% doesn't justify forcing someone to trade loot. Nice if you want to do it, but no problem if you don't.