Global warming may have already passed irreversible tipping point

[Elegiac]

I specifically said that ya'll should send me a PM if you want to talk about things that are not on-topic. That's on you... Personally what I'd rather talk about is ideas or solutions to environmental problems.

Your constant gish galloping is very much on topic, however, for the reasons I've mentioned previously: when it comes to the subject of anthropogenic climate change your only interest is in servicing your ideological commitment to capitalism - ergo, any evidence that suggests capitalism is part of the problem is dismissed as "unscientific" or "magical thinking", and any solutions that require systemic economic changes get dismissed as "leftist authoritarianism".

So no, posting youtube videos about "inventions that are going to save the Earth" is not you wanting to talk about ideas or solutions to environmental problems, it's you trying to avoid talking about ideas and solutions that you find distasteful because they call the validity of capitalism as it currently exists into question.

In short; more dishonest bullshit.

[Flarelaine]

What do you guys think about the rise of man-made islands in recent times?

I think we are 30-50 years late in denying money to countries whose entire economy is "look, oil!"

[Santti]

I can't wait for this future technology that will save everything, only for people like Primarycolor to still oppose them, because it's still going to be a matter of cost, like it always will be. It's never going to be "future tech" enough, if it's not free, and not inconvenience him in any way. Meanwhile, the original problem keeps getting worse and worse, and requiring ever more wondrous technology and higher cost to solve. And let's not forget the libertarian bullshit, that you couldn't even make the factories to adopt these technologies, because mah freedumbs.

[Shadowferal]

What would the Earth look like if all the ice melted?

[Shadowferal]

Biden administration paying $75 million to move three tribes affected by climate change

“As part of the federal government’s treaty and trust responsibility to protect Tribal sovereignty and revitalize tribal communities, we must safeguard Indian Country from the intensifying and unique impacts of climate change,” said Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland.

The Interior Department will provide $25 million each to Washington State’s Quinault Indian Nation and Alaska’s Newtok Village and Native Village of Napakiak. The Alaska communities are the site of severe erosion, which is projected to destroy critical infrastructure in Napakiak by 2030 and within the next four years in Newtok.

Napakiak currently loses between 25-50 feet a year to erosion, according to DOI projections.

The Quinault Indian Nation is located where the Quinault River meets the Pacific Ocean, putting it at ground zero for storm surges, flooding and rising sea levels, as well as potential tsunamis caused by earthquakes on the Pacific Rim.

[Shadowferal]

Fleeing from hurricanes, Americans are ‘flocking to fire,’ study finds

Americans are fleeing from many of the U.S. counties hit hardest by hurricanes and heatwaves — only to find themselves facing dangerous wildfires and warmer temperatures, a new study has found.

The 10-year national study, published in Frontiers in Human Dynamics, investigated how natural disasters, climate change and other factors have been driving American migration.

As people seek refuge from hurricane zones, they are “flocking to fire” — moving to regions with the greatest risk of wildfires and significant summer heat, the researchers observed.

“These findings are concerning, because people are moving into harm’s way — into regions with wildfires and rising temperatures, which are expected to become more extreme due to climate change,” lead author Mahalia Clark, a graduate fellow in environment at the University of Vermont, said in a statement.

“Our goal was to understand how extreme weather is influencing migration as it becomes more severe with climate change,” she said.

Clark and her colleagues identified several top U.S. migration destinations by combining census data from 2010-2020 with data on temperature, weather, landscape, demographic variables and socioeconomic factors.

The most popular spots, they found, were cities and suburbs in the Pacific Northwest and parts of the Southwest — Arizona, Colorado, Nevada and Utah — as well as Texas, Florida and a swath of the Southeast, from Nashville to Atlanta to Washington, D.C.

Many of these locations already face considerable wildfire risks and relatively warm annual temperatures, according to the study.

In contrast, the authors saw that people tended to move away from areas in the Midwest, the Great Plains and along the Mississippi River — including many counties that have been worst hit by hurricanes or frequent heatwaves.

“These findings suggest that, for many Americans, the risks and dangers of living in hurricane zones may be starting to outweigh the benefits of life in those areas,” co-author Gillian Galford, a research associate professor at the University of Vermont’s Rubenstein School of Environment and Natural Resources, said in a statement.

“That same type of tipping point has yet to happen for wildfires and rising summer heat,” she added.

Galford attributed this discrepancy to the fact that wildfires and summer heat have “only become problems at the national level more recently.”

One implication of the study, according to the authors, is that city planners may need to consider discouraging new development in fire-prone areas.

Inevitable...

[Rasulis]

One of the major issue the US will be facing early on is heat. In a relatively short period, parts of the US will closely resemble the Middle East or monsoonal India.

[Shadowferal]

Related note; Cop15: historic deal struck to halt biodiversity loss by 2030

After more than four years of negotiations, repeated delays due to the Covid-19 pandemic and talks into the night on Sunday in Montreal, nearly 200 countries – but not the US or the Vatican – signed an agreement at the biodiversity Cop15, which was co-hosted by Canada and China, to put humanity on a path to living in harmony with nature by the middle of the century.

In an extraordinary plenary that began on Sunday evening and lasted for more than seven hours, countries wrangled over the final agreement. Finally, at about 3.30am local time on Monday, news broke that an agreement had been struck.

Democratic Republic of the Congo’s negotiator appeared to block the final deal presented by China, telling the plenary that he could not support the agreement in its current form because it did not create a new fund for biodiversity, separate to the existing UN fund, the global environment facility (GEF). China, Brazil, Indonesia, India and Mexico are the largest recipients of GEF funding, and some African states wanted more money for conservation as part of the final deal.

However, moments later, China’s environment minister and the Cop15 president, Huang Runqiu, signalled that the agreement was finished and agreed, and the plenary burst into applause.

Negotiators from Cameroon, Uganda and the DRC expressed incredulity that the agreement had been put through. The DRC said it had formally objected to the agreement, but a UN lawyer said it had not. The negotiator from Cameroon called it “a fraud”, while Uganda said there had been a “coup d’état” against the Cop15.

--------------

DRC and Cameroon want the bribe funding but China saw through it and will likely see an excuse to put boots on the ground. So I fully expect them to complain to the US, who will be noncommittal.

[Shadowferal]

"Where's the water going to come from?

This tract of open desert west of Phoenix is slated to be transformed into a sprawling development with up to 100,000 homes — a 37,000-acre property that the developers say will become Arizona’s largest master-planned community.

"It’s mind-boggling,” Ferris said. “I don't think there is enough water here for all the growth that is planned.”

Water supplies are shrinking throughout the Southwest, from the Rocky Mountains to California, with the flow of the Colorado River declining and groundwater levels dropping in many areas. The mounting strains on the region’s water supplies are bringing new questions about the unrestrained growth of sprawling suburbs.

Ferris, a researcher at Arizona State University’s Kyl Center for Water Policy, is convinced that growth is surpassing the water limits in parts of Arizona, and she worries that the development boom is on a collision course with the aridification of the Southwest and the finite supply of groundwater that can be pumped from desert aquifers.

For decades, Arizona’s cities and suburbs have been among the fastest growing in the country. In most areas, water scarcity has yet to substantially slow the march of development.

But as drought, climate change and the chronic overuse of water drain the Colorado River’s reservoirs, federal authorities are demanding the largest reduction ever in water diversions in an effort to avoid “dead pool” — the point at which reservoir levels fall so low that water stops flowing downriver.

Already, Arizona is being forced to take 21% less water from the Colorado River, and larger cuts will be needed as the crisis deepens.

“What we’re going to see is more and more pressure on groundwater,” Ferris said. “And what will happen to our groundwater then?”

One of the fastest-growing cities in the Phoenix area is Buckeye, which has plans to nearly triple its population by 2030. According to its 2020 water resources plan, 27 master-planned communities are proposed in Buckeye, which depends primarily on groundwater. If all the proposed developments are fully built, the city’s population, now 110,000, would skyrocket to about 872,000.

In the area Ferris visited, construction has begun on the giant development called Teravalis, where the developers plan to build the equivalent of a new city, complete with more than 1,200 acres of commercial development.

State water regulators have granted approvals to allow an initial portion of the project to move forward. But in other nearby areas of Buckeye, state officials have sent letters to builders putting some approvals on hold while they study whether there is enough groundwater for all the long-term demands.

“It’s hard for me to imagine wall-to-wall homes out here,” Ferris said, standing on the gravel shoulder of the Sun Valley Parkway, which runs across miles of undeveloped land. “This is the epitome of irresponsible growth. It is growing on desert lands, raw desert lands, where there’s no other water supply except groundwater.”

Nearby, the Central Arizona Project snakes through the desert, filled with Colorado River water. The CAP Canal was built between 1973 and 1993, bringing water that has enabled growth. But its supply came with low-priority water rights that made it vulnerable to cuts in a shortage.

The Phoenix metropolitan area’s population has more than doubled since 1990, expanding from 2.2 million to about 4.9 million people. Subdivisions have been built on former farmlands as development has expanded across the Salt River Valley, also called the Valley of the Sun.

“We’ve got to learn to live within our means. Groundwater was always supposed to be a savings account, to be used only in times of shortages. Well, now those shortages look permanent,” Ferris said. “We ought to be saying, ‘How much growth can we really sustain?’ And put limits on how much water we’re going to use.”

The desert aquifers contain “fossil” water that has been underground for thousands of years.

“That water is not replenished. And so once it’s pumped, it’s pretty much gone,” Ferris said.

[mbit2]

What kind of point even is "Math isn't science"? So what? What is it even hoping to achieve?

Imagine a fictional world where math isn't science. That changes nothing. Climate change is happening and is a major threat to our health and safety.

Pure math belongs actually to philosophy. Should be easy to see why - you start with axioms and build thought constructs completely untouched by the real world.
Its also why its superior to other fields that have to do experiments to prove whether their theories are sound - math is self-contained and the equation is the evidence itself.

As for the sky is falling global warming meme - they told you be afraid of next ice age in something like 60s. GL with the current horoscope. What you really should take note of is gov pr tells you to pay up on gas to stop climate change while they made their yachts tax exempt in same move. Very convincing lol.

[Endus]

As for the sky is falling global warming meme - they told you be afraid of next ice age in something like 60s.

You're pushing disinformation that's been debunked for nearly a half-century, and the few papers that suggested the possibility back then were very much, even at the time, in the minority.

https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age...s-in-1970s.htm
https://arstechnica.com/science/2016...oming-ice-age/
https://insidescience.org/news/my-19...ientists-wrong
https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/jo...bams2370_1.xml
https://www.climate.gov/teaching/res...red-be-ice-age

Tell me about how the Earth is only 6,000 years old while you're at it. Or how there's no way evolution can happen. That's the level of absolute steaming bullshit you're pushing here. Straight science denialism.

[mbit2]

You're pushing disinformation that's been debunked for nearly a half-century, and the few papers that suggested the possibility back then were very much, even at the time, in the minority.

https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age...s-in-1970s.htm
https://arstechnica.com/science/2016...oming-ice-age/
https://insidescience.org/news/my-19...ientists-wrong
https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/jo...bams2370_1.xml
https://www.climate.gov/teaching/res...red-be-ice-age

Tell me about how the Earth is only 6,000 years old while you're at it. Or how there's no way evolution can happen. That's the level of absolute steaming bullshit you're pushing here. Straight science denialism.

lol "look at my list of links that agree with me". Ive seen the old newspapers claiming it. Fuck off with your bullshit.

[Nymrohd]

lol "look at my list of links that agree with me". Ive seen the old newspapers claiming it. Fuck off with your bullshit.

Newspapers are not written by scientists. "Science" journalists will say whatever will sell a paper.

[Endus]

lol "look at my list of links that agree with me". Ive seen the old newspapers claiming it. Fuck off with your bullshit.

And? You're lying about the scientific consensus at the time, you're lying about how they were rapidly disproven by the early '80s, you're talking about newspapers and not scientific articles. You're pushing deliberately disinformation to push climate change denial conspiracy bullshit. You may as well be telling me that the Earth is flat and I'm a fool to believe the corporate global elite's myths about it being roughly spherical. You don't have an argument; you're just openly lying to push obvious bullshit that nobody with any level of basic scientific understanding would ever fall for.

You're pushing a completely nuts conspiracy theory.

[mbit2]

Newspapers are not written by scientists. "Science" journalists will say whatever will sell a paper.

True and here's the deal: public opinion is shaped by newspaper not academia. The route is find some guy who got the scientist label and agrees with you then use him as backing for your claims. It doesn't matter what academia believes for news shape public opinion and are used to justify policy making. Thats why him trying to counter with b-but scientists didnt believe it is entirely beside the point.

[Endus]

True and here's the deal: public opinion is shaped by newspaper not academia. The route is find some guy who got the scientist label and agrees with you then use him as backing for your claims. It doesn't matter what academia believes for news shape public opinion and are used to justify policy making. Thats why him trying to counter with b-but scientists didnt believe it is entirely beside the point.

None of that explains why you chose to jump in here pushing obvious lies and bullshit that a child could see through.

[mbit2]

None of that explains why you chose to jump in here pushing obvious lies and bullshit that a child could see through.

The fault lies in your autism unable to grasp what was actually written. Got triggered and jumped at it like a rabid dog.

[Shadowferal]

The fault lies in your autism unable to grasp what was actually written. Got triggered and jumped at it like a rabid dog.

"Where's the water going to come from?

[mbit2]

"Where's the water going to come from?

Not mentioned there is states have been stealing water from each other. They basically make it rain earlier which means clouds that would rain down later on next state are instead used by first one to artificially induce rain fall.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/17/how-...-the-west.html

[Shadowferal]

Yea..that'll work long term. /s