9.1 is a huge letdown

[rhorle]

When people complete gearing progression, then they are done, they have no reason to do M+ anymore, no PvP, they are done, which is a huge chunk of WoW's endgame. When people finish a story quest, they still have to progress their character, they still have M+, Raids or PvP left, there is still loads of content.

So there is no reason to remove the time gate on stories because they already have to stick around for the gear. You are also assuming that the same people that do the story always do raids, M+, or PvP. You keep creating different restrictions and play styles based on the argument you are making.

Do you honestly think that once a person gets their "best in slot" they never log on again until the next tier? They aren't going to PvP? M+, Raid, or do rep's and quests for fun?

People that raid are interested in multiplayer content, because raiding is multiplayer content.

You literally said they are not though. Because the only thing that keeps them doing that multiplayer content is a time gate. And that if you remove that time gate they would stop doing that multiplayer content as soon as possible. That means they are interested in gear and not the content they are forced to do for the gear.

[Kralljin]

You are also assuming that the same people that do the story always do raids, M+, or PvP.

No, i don't, read again.

Simply because someone finished a story campaign for you, doesn't mean they never log on again, unless they are exclusively interested in that, but then i doubt those players actually play with other people because they solely care about solo content.

If somebody is exclusively interested in story / solo content, then by all means, let them finish that, there is no reason to timegate that.

Do you honestly think that once a person gets their "best in slot" they never log on again until the next tier? They aren't going to PvP? M+, Raid, or do rep's and quests for fun?

If they're not interested in those thing but primarily the progression of their character, why should they log in?

It's not some wild conspiracy theory that you have less players engaging in a given content when there are no power rewards relevant for them.
Of course, you can pretend that everyone is actually doing it for the heck of it, but then you're just fooling yourself, especially when i look at certain systems such as Torghast.

[Bisso]

New Torghast is way better than the first one. And how is torghast more punishing if you "fuck up" considering the only "fuck up" you can do in torghast is maybe dying... and that's not really a big loss. I never looked into all the intricacies of how the scoring system works and I 5 crystal it no problem.
To me it seems like people read about it and get shocked about the amount of information available and assume it's complicated in game, it's not really. Explore, kill enemies quickly, use empowerment on big packs, gg, easy 5 crystals.

Curious, why would flying change anything about patch 9.1?
Flying isn't content so if you don't like the content provided, why would flying save it?

This tbh. It's more fun, more engaging. People who struggle might need some time to get 5 gems, but otherwise, any good players will 5 gem their layer first week, also, it's not even necessary if you don't want to engage with the system, all you have to do is finish your runs, so it's even less punishing that it was for people who doesn't enjoy it.

I do hate the fact that they time gate the box of many things. Let people enjoy things. I get it, Soul Cinders need to cap per week so legendaries don't get all crafted day 1, but the Talent system has no influence on that. Blizzard is just too afraid to late their systems breathe, it always has to be put into a set of restriction that seems only there because it's one of their checkpoint mark when they create a system these days.

[kaminaris]

Wildstar didn't fail for being hardcore, they failed for a myriad of others settings. Do you know the #1 complaint about Wildstar? cuz it wasn't the hardcore nature or attunements.

the #1 complaint they had, by far, was the ART STYLE. It was a very divisive and kinda disney-esque goofy art style and people were looking for a more adult oriented hardcore art style.

The hardcore nature of it wasn't even a top 3 complaint. The art style, the setting, and the combat were the top complaints the team had

That is some high copium right there to think wildstar failed because of art style.

- - - Updated - - -

No. It's called actually reading and comprehending what the devs have said on this issue. Literacy is a powerful thing.

Stockholm Syndrome is bitching this much about the game/devs/company and still giving them money.

No. Stockholm syndrome is supporting your devs that literally tries to squeeze you out dry.
Because who gives a shit what devs said? Who cares? Its about the issue of timegating a damn story.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Definitely a letdown and want to add special emphasis that they managed to make Torghast an even bigger worthless pile of syphilitic shit than it already was.

What? How is that possible?
Torghast has only gotten more deep.

At worst, you ignore both of them, so the changes are irrelevant to you.
No way has it gotten more "worthless."

That really doesn't even make sense.

[perkocet]

Wildstar didn't fail for being hardcore, they failed for a myriad of others settings. Do you know the #1 complaint about Wildstar? cuz it wasn't the hardcore nature or attunements.

the #1 complaint they had, by far, was the ART STYLE. It was a very divisive and kinda disney-esque goofy art style and people were looking for a more adult oriented hardcore art style.

The hardcore nature of it wasn't even a top 3 complaint. The art style, the setting, and the combat were the top complaints the team had

Do you have a source for this data?

[crusadernero]

Its unfortunate but sadly it's just wow by numbers once again. It doesn't have to be good, it just has to be done is what I imagine they have written on their walls.

I mean, this patch gives so little. A small zone, a dungeon, raid and a metric ton of shit surrounding m+ and torghast. Two features that aint that popular, especially torghast.

With "little" I mean they deliver on a dungeon and a raid, but nothing else worthwhile. Both are probably going to be great. I'll play at a later stage to check that out when its all released.

M+ and dungeons is a different beast and a total different kind of content now than just a couple of years ago. Just look at the front page with the info about m+ & vault gear, soon you need to be a professor to understand whats going on.

Grind for mounts, cosmetics, titles and whatnot is always there but they need to figure somethin out in order to engage the playerbase more. At this point its either hardcore m+/raid or just quit. All the other grinds feel void, useless and not worth it at all. Its supposed to be a MMORPG but it feels more like a single player RPG that tells you a story in a shit way. BC feels much more like a MMORPG and compared to retail, its ALOT easier in most aspects. shit hard content doesnt equal great and engaging gameplay.

And lets not forget we gotta wait 7+ months for the next patch for more story after the ineviatble cliffhanger that comes after the Sylvanas fight.

[Osmeric]

That is some high copium right there to think wildstar failed because of art style.

Especially since everyone should have known what the art style was before they bought it. That wouldn't explain why it suddenly crashed so soon after release (pop declining in % terms 4x faster than SWTOR did).

One can say there may have been other things wrong with WildStar beside the absurd #hardcore focus, such as problems running on AMD CPUs, extensive botting, and bad gear level design.

[Schizoide]

Wildstar absolutely failed due to being too challenging. Without question.

Even ignoring the dungeons and raids (which for those that haven't played, were SUBSTANTIALLY more difficult than Cataclysm launch heroics and most WoW mythic raids), you had to duck and weave around ground telegraphs constantly while leveling up and soloing. That's fine for well-rewarded bosses but when killing 27 bears to collect their asses it gets old real fast.

The art style is of course subjective, but I liked it a lot. Oozing with personality, and great animations. The developers put a ton of effort into worldbuilding too. It's a huge shame that was all tossed in the garbage.

[Rinaul]

I actually enjoy Torghast now especially with the auto loot tower upgrade. As a demon hunter I just zip through the whole floor, massacring everything in sight all while keeping it moving. Much more cleaner than when I had to stop and backtrack to go loot the bodies. Though this may be strictly a demon hunter experience. As far as Korthia I like that it's straight to the point as to what the zone purpose is. Rares are pretty rare in that you usually will miss them unless you're next to them when they spawn or you have an addon since everyone is right on it. All in all this patch has been pretty good to me so far and hopefully the raid is fun tomorrow.

[Thrif]

The main content of 9.1 is the new raid, dungeon, and seasons for PvP/M+. If you do not enjoy those types of content, then I do not think an MMO-RPG is the best game type for you. In that case, 9.1 (and most other patches) is probably a disappoint. I would suggest finding other games that don't revolve so much around group content.

Actually a MMORPG might be just up this hypothetical persons alley.

A lobby based instance crawler desperately pretending to be eSports suitable that has long since abandoned anything that made it either an MMO or RPG on the other hand...

[Orwell7]

Actually a MMORPG might be just up this hypothetical persons alley.

A lobby based instance crawler desperately pretending to be eSports suitable that has long since abandoned anything that made it either an MMO or RPG on the other hand...

Yep, WoW to be honest is NOT an MMO from the beginning. Vanilla and TBC had some "normal" MMO elements like long-ass quest chains with usable (endgame) rewards, usable crafting, lots of fun activities to do, long-ass leveling, etc.

Now we have a combat simulator, which does its job flawlessly, but this it not an MMO, not by a long shot.

[FelPlague]

Remember when WoW would launch with multiple raids at once each expac?

The difference is tho, those old devs were better

you mean multiple raids where most of them were 1 bosses, some 2?

[Zantera]

Remember when WoW would launch with multiple raids at once each expac?

The difference is tho, those old devs were better

Yeah man, sure miss those days when we got useless filler raids with 1 boss in them and when every boss had 1 mechanic. Much more fun and rewarding than a real challenge.

[Rageonit]

Yeah man, sure miss those days when we got useless filler raids with 1 boss in them and when every boss had 1 mechanic. Much more fun and rewarding than a real challenge.

Not only that, but think how much time it took to design and balance Magtheridon, and then how much time it took to design and balance mythic, heroic, normal and LFR Sire. If anything, current team is better at designing bosses.

[Zantera]

Not only that, but think how much time it took to design and balance Magtheridon, and then how much time it took to design and balance mythic, heroic, normal and LFR Sire. If anything, current team is better at designing bosses.

Yep. And also something people rarely bring up about the past is how badly tuned some bosses were. It still happens occasionally but it was definitely more of a rollercoaster back in those days.

[Rageonit]

Yep. And also something people rarely bring up about the past is how badly tuned some bosses were. It still happens occasionally but it was definitely more of a rollercoaster back in those days.

If they designed bosses like they did in the past - 1 room, 2 or 3 harshly tuned, basic mechanics - they could prolly throw 20 at us. But modern player has so much bigger expectations, bosses have plenty of intricate mechanics, things like changing environment, different difficulty modes... Yet people see only numbers. Old expansion had 13 bosses and this has only 10, therefore they are lazy. It doesn't take a genious to see how much more work has to be put in modern raids.

Not to mention it was so much easier to design bosses when the game was still new. Nowadays, after so many raids we had, it's not easy to still come up with designs that feel fresh and original.

[Soon-TM]

Cant see any reason to return for 9.1. Better just stay unsubbed until they deliver something worthwhile.

Alternatively, even if you find the non-instanced content worthwhile, you can always unsub and return in 3 or 4 months, when most gates will be lifted.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

To be honest I've kept thinking this was 9.2 for how long it took to launch as well as how "big" the patch is.


Not really a fan of the Shards of Domination system. It feels like Blizzard just wanted to shoehorn in something that feels like tier sets since people have been asking for tier sets back in the game for the longest now, and the shard effects aren't even that interesting.

[Crul]

Yeah man, sure miss those days when we got useless filler raids with 1 boss in them and when every boss had 1 mechanic. Much more fun and rewarding than a real challenge.

Yet we could not get people to click the cubes at the same time on Magtheridon.