What, if anything, legally happens to immigrants in the US when war is declared?

[YUPPIE]

I only just thought about this recently.

The US is a free country so, regardless of tensions, we let foreigners in to live here if they find a way. So we have a lot of Chinese immigrants despite everything going on.

So if China and the US, for instance, declared war, what happens to the Chinese immigrants legally? China is a dictatorship so it's not hard to believe they would just immediately kill or leverage the lives of any US students or tourists stuck there. But would we do anything to subvert the notion the US is a democracy in times of war? Would we

A) Forcibly deport them

B) Make it so they cannot leave. They retain permanent residence until the war ends.

C) Do absolutely nothing, really

This is important because a time of war with nations would mean it would be hell for foreigners to be living in an opposing nation with hate crimes on the rise. They would want to go back home, most of the time.

[Shadowferal]

Current day... I'll wait and see.

[YUPPIE]

Back during WW2 if you were a german, japanese or italian immigrant, even several generations US citizen already, you were put in prison camps... some of those camps were in South-America too iirc.

so you're telling me we just throw out all the democracy that quickly in times of great tension? Makes it seem pretty skin deep.

[Shadowferal]

so you're telling me we just throw out all the democracy that quickly in times of great tension? Makes it seem pretty skin deep.

What happened just after 9/11?

[PC2]

What about the immigrants? If they support the US then Chinese immigrants are just like anyone else except they could give us intel on China. If they retain support for the CCP over the US then we add them to the list of potential domestic threats we're monitoring until the conflict ends.

Individualism is one of our greatest strengths. If we throw it away for collective punishment than we are no better than China at that point.

so you're telling me we just throw out all the democracy that quickly in times of great tension? Makes it seem pretty skin deep.

You two hate democracy. Don't be like that...

[YUPPIE]

What happened just after 9/11?

you tell me. I specify "legally" as in if our own government and laws will do bad things because I don't consider what will inevitably happen with the citizens that will be on a rampage hurting the foreigners.

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What about the immigrants? If they support the US then Chinese immigrants are just like everyone else, if they retain support for the CCP over US then we add them to the list of potential domestic threats we're monitoring until the conflict ends.

Individualism is one of our greatest strengths. If we throw it away for collective punishment than we are no better than China at that point.

as the other person stated though, regardless of where your support leans, war makes people go crazy and lose sight of their values

[Shadowferal]

you tell me. I specify "legally" as in if our own government and laws will do bad things because I don't consider what will inevitably happen with the citizens that will be on a rampage hurting the foreigners.

It's debatable. Sure there was a declaration of war, and Guantanamo Bay was happening, but not much else beyond isolated incidents.(that I recall offhand) And yea...if you were from anywhere from the Middle East you got scrutiny. (Especially if you were from Saudi Arabia, but for other reasons. Thanks Bush! That dick)

[YUPPIE]

It's debatable. Sure there was a declaration of war, and Guantanamo Bay was happening, but not much else beyond isolated incidents.(that I recall offhand) And yea...if you were from anywhere from the Middle East you got scrutiny. (Especially if you were from Saudi Arabia, but for other reasons. Thanks Bush! That dick)

you make it seem like I can't exactly get a concrete answer until this war happens. Especially with a man who claims human decency like Biden in charge, I want to see this war and what comes with it to get my answer.

Like you imply, Bush was a war hawk so he naturally had a more ruthless streak in approach

[PC2]

as the other person stated though, regardless of where your support leans, war makes people go crazy and lose sight of their values

That's very true but that can be avoided by planning all the right moves ahead of time, communicating with everyone in society, and setting up the relevant policies so that there can't be collective punishment of local citizens in wartime. There's always a solution and you should never accept the claim that "it is human nature, it cannot be improved".

[Shadowferal]

you make it seem like I can't exactly get a concrete answer until this war happens. Especially with a man who claims human decency like Biden in charge, I want to see this war and what comes with it to get my answer. Like you imply, Bush was a war hawk so he naturally had a more ruthless streak in approach

Look at the "enemy combatant" language that was used as a lawful dodge for habeas corpus...

[cubby]

I only just thought about this recently.

The US is a free country so, regardless of tensions, we let foreigners in to live here if they find a way. So we have a lot of Chinese immigrants despite everything going on.

So if China and the US, for instance, declared war, what happens to the Chinese immigrants legally? China is a dictatorship so it's not hard to believe they would just immediately kill or leverage the lives of any US students or tourists stuck there. But would we do anything to subvert the notion the US is a democracy in times of war? Would we

A) Forcibly deport them

B) Make it so they cannot leave. They retain permanent residence until the war ends.

C) Do absolutely nothing, really

This is important because a time of war with nations would mean it would be hell for foreigners to be living in an opposing nation with hate crimes on the rise. They would want to go back home, most of the time.

Typically in developed nations, when two countries are in conflict (various stages of war), the citizens of those countries trapped in the hostile country are treated well. That is modern times, however - we all as a species dropped the ball in WWII.

So if we go to war with China, their citizens here legally will be treated as people, well and fairly, and perhaps nothing at all needed.

However, we are also in the Post Fact Era and the GQP/QNon fuckwads, and so those citizens (or perceived citizens, because racist fucks don't understand different asian heritage) might be in non-legal jeopardy.

But yeah, interesting though exercise. We haven't been "at war" with another country really since WWII. And it would be interesting to see how we'd deal with them. Deporting them would be logistically impossible. Even if we could do it, China wouldn't let us land thousands of planes in their country. Maybe if we routed them through another third party country it might be possible, but the planes wouldn't be available.

Hmmmmmm...still thinking about this. I'm not sure there is any straightforward answer, either.

[uuuhname]

well if they want to leave you let them leave. most of these people are here for a higher education to take back to China anyway. most of these people are students who have no intention of staying here permanently.

[Santti]

Well, there is some precedent in how US treated it's citizens with Japanese heritage during WWII. All of their rights stripped down to "right this way!", to a damn internment camps.

Would American citizens with Chinese heritage suffer the same fate (or not even US citizens, just immigrants)? I'm guessing no internment camps this time around, but they definitely wouldn't be safe in US. Some hillbillies with their pickup trucks and penis-extensions would definitely be on the lookout for anyone who looks like Chinese, for sure. Don't know about the government. Would probably keep a close look on everything Chinese, but no idea what it would actually do.

[YUPPIE]

Well, there is some precedent in how US treated it's citizens with Japanese heritage during WWII. All of their rights stripped down to "right this way!", to a damn internment camps.

Would American citizens with Chinese heritage suffer the same fate (or not even US citizens, just immigrants)? I'm guessing no internment camps this time around, but they definitely wouldn't be safe in US. Some hillbillies with their pickup trucks and penis-extensions would definitely be on the lookout for anyone who looks like Chinese, for sure. Don't know about the government. Would probably keep a close look on everything Chinese, but no idea what it would actually do.

the uncertainty of the story and the likelihood we will enter conflict makes this exciting to speculate on.

My favorite part is the probability that citizens cannot leave either China or the US as foreigners despite the imminent danger from redneck racists. It would be like an anarchy movie in real life.

[cubby]

the uncertainty of the story and the likelihood we will enter conflict makes this exciting to speculate on.

My favorite part is the probability that citizens cannot leave either China or the US as foreigners despite the imminent danger from redneck racists. It would be like an anarchy movie in real life.

I'm not sure I'd use the word "exciting", but it's certainly and interesting thought exercise.

And there would be "redneck racists" on both sides of the conflict (I'm sure China has their version, whatever they are called). I think that would be the biggest issue. I think the governments would decide to treat foreign citizens well, even protecting them, but the lashing out might be tough to control.

It would be VERY interesting if the conflicting governments were forced to intern the foreign citizens literally for their own protection. That would NOT go over well.

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Actually, I could see the governments treating foreign citizens well, but when private parties start lashing out at those foreigners, the governments blaming each other for not controlling and/or protecting them, and that escalating to the governments interning the foreign citizens.

[ScipioMoroder]

Uh...if they're naturalized citizens...nothing. If they're expats they'd probably be drafted to go to war with China themselves, as every able bodied male resident in the US would be theoretically required to, regardless of ethnicity or citizenship status.

[Elegiac]

Uh...if they're naturalized citizens...nothing. If they're expats they'd probably be drafted to go to war with China themselves, as every able bodied male resident in the US would be theoretically required to, regardless of ethnicity or citizenship status.

Catch me dodging that fucking draft, then.

[cubby]

Uh...if they're naturalized citizens...nothing. If they're expats they'd probably be drafted to go to war with China themselves, as every able bodied male resident in the US would be theoretically required to, regardless of ethnicity or citizenship status.

Yeah, no. Not even a little bit. Outside of the fact that the U.S. army is all volunteer, we'd never "draft" expats of the country we're at war with, because of the security issue (and a host of other reasons).

Plus, if we did go to actual war with China, the U.S. military would be flooded with volunteer recruits. And that doesn't even take into account that we wouldn't really need a lot of extra bodies in uniform because we'd never be stupid enough to actually invade China.

[beanman12345]

Yeah, no. Not even a little bit. Outside of the fact that the U.S. army is all volunteer, we'd never "draft" expats of the country we're at war with, because of the security issue (and a host of other reasons).

Plus, if we did go to actual war with China, the U.S. military would be flooded with volunteer recruits. And that doesn't even take into account that we wouldn't really need a lot of extra bodies in uniform because we'd never be stupid enough to actually invade China.

I really wonder if some of these people actually signed up for selective services at 18 as required by law or if they just were too ignorant and just didn't.

[ScipioMoroder]

Yeah, no. Not even a little bit. Outside of the fact that the U.S. army is all volunteer, we'd never "draft" expats of the country we're at war with, because of the security issue (and a host of other reasons).

Plus, if we did go to actual war with China, the U.S. military would be flooded with volunteer recruits. And that doesn't even take into account that we wouldn't really need a lot of extra bodies in uniform because we'd never be stupid enough to actually invade China.

If the US does to war with China, there will definitely be a draft, it will be unavoidable at that point.

But also, "yeah no, not even a little bit"...maybe read the Selective Service website before you come at me like some arrogant little middle school girl.

U.S. immigrants are required by law to register with the Selective Service System 30 days after their 18th birthday or 30 days after entry into the United States if they are between the ages of 18 and 25. This includes U.S. born and naturalized citizens, parolees, undocumented immigrants, legal permanent residents, asylum seekers, refugees, and all males with visas of any kind which expired more than 30 days ago.

https://www.sss.gov/register/who-needs-to-register/#p1

Sincerely, someone who actually signed up for SS once I turned 18...

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I really wonder if some of these people actually signed up for selective services at 18 as required by law or if they just were too ignorant and just didn't.

Evidently I seem to be the only one here who actually knows anything about selective service...